If Vader really wanted rid of Palpatine...

Jean Paul · Post by **Jean Paul** » 2004-10-28 01:43pm

..what would be to stop him from ordering the Executor to slag Palpy's tower on the DSII?

Yes, the shield the shield... if anyone would have authorization to have it lowered it would be Vader. If you were the guy in control and Vader, ahem, "requested" it lowered, would you be inclined to say "No"? Bearing in mind that the whispered tale of the fate of Needa, Ozzel et al had probably circulated far and wide through the fleet by word of mouth...

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-28 01:48pm

As the Thrawn trilogy shows, the Emperor had hidden circuits and commands that could allow his agents unrestricted access to a Star Destroyer's most vital areas. It's possible that he had a master control switch for the Executor -- or could have just taken control of the entire ship's crew as C'baoth did to the Chimaera.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-10-28 01:56pm

Because Vader of all people knew how powerful and devious the Emperor was and therefore needed an up close and personal solution to getting rid of him. Anything less would leave Palpy a window to escape or retaliate.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-10-28 01:59pm

It also possible that Vader was too scared to even try, after all Palpatine could hide his Force powers from jedi masters while he was in same room with them.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-10-28 02:32pm

Palpatine had clone bodies ready to assume, including some on the Death Star, most probably. Blowing up his tower, however unlikely, would most probably not even work to effect Palpatine's total destruction (he did, after all, survive the actual destruction of the Death Star II).

And according to the ROTJ novelisation and Grand Admiral Thrawn in Heir to the Empire, all of the Imperial servicemen at Endor were under the influence of Palpatine's Dark Side power.

Sonnenburg · Post by **Sonnenburg** » 2004-10-28 09:32pm

Perhaps Vader could have "accidentally" missed the button to flip his lightsaber on when he blocked Luke's strike from hitting the Emperor.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-10-28 11:35pm

I don't think that Palpatine was depending exclusively on Vader to block Luke's strike. He was probably ready to put up a Force-wall to deflect it if Vader failed to respond in time.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-10-29 01:21am

A split second later and he could have pushed Luke's swing into Palpy's head (or blocked a little less forcefully). I wonder how that would have turned out... ; )

As far as the whole "soul transfer" thing, if I knew he had such power, I'd have a backup plan to prevent that from happening (send a bomb to the cloning facility, blockade off that section of space where he died, have some sith acolytes suck up the power or something, call the Ghostbusters).

Or maybe, like wank villians like Exar Kun, he's just invincible. But at least you'd give him quite a setback!

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-10-29 01:16pm

Kurgan wrote:A split second later and he could have pushed Luke's swing into Palpy's head (or blocked a little less forcefully). I wonder how that would have turned out... ; )

Probably Palpy would have had some trick. You don't try to get someone to kill you unless your ready, and he knew Vader could have taken that chance to to kill him.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2004-10-29 03:58pm

Well, I think in the first place, most crewers are loyal to Palpy first, then Vader. I get the impression Vader was not too well liked, especially by his crew.

Secondly, as mentioned.. master control passwords

Thirdly, Palpatine is f'in strong in the force.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-29 06:34pm

Trytostaydead wrote:Well, I think in the first place, most crewers are loyal to Palpy first, then Vader. I get the impression Vader was not too well liked, especially by his crew.

What makes you think that the average soldier in the Empire would be loyal to the Emperor first? Technically as I swore alliegance to the Queen of England I should be loyal to her first. But most soldiers in the Canadian Forces, myself included are loyal to our immediate CO. I doubt that the average Joe in the Imperial war machine was even loyal to Vader, but to people like Piett.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-10-30 02:08am

Sharp-kun wrote:
Kurgan wrote:A split second later and he could have pushed Luke's swing into Palpy's head (or blocked a little less forcefully). I wonder how that would have turned out... ; )
Probably Palpy would have had some trick. You don't try to get someone to kill you unless your ready, and he knew Vader could have taken that chance to to kill him.

Saber-proof clothes. Lot of good they did him against Vader's patented "evil overlord-toss."

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2004-10-30 08:13pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Trytostaydead wrote:Well, I think in the first place, most crewers are loyal to Palpy first, then Vader. I get the impression Vader was not too well liked, especially by his crew.

What makes you think that the average soldier in the Empire would be loyal to the Emperor first? Technically as I swore alliegance to the Queen of England I should be loyal to her first. But most soldiers in the Canadian Forces, myself included are loyal to our immediate CO. I doubt that the average Joe in the Imperial war machine was even loyal to Vader, but to people like Piett.

I think Trytostaydead got it backward; for the Imperial Officery, Vader IS the Emperor's will and enforcement. If the Emperor died, fear of Vader would probably keep the Imperial Government in line.

Plus, of course, as the Sith apprentice, Vader was Palpatine's "heir" (assuming you don't include the Palpatine clones).

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-30 09:00pm

Guardsman Bass wrote:
I think Trytostaydead got it backward; for the Imperial Officery, Vader IS the Emperor's will and enforcement. If the Emperor died, fear of Vader would probably keep the Imperial Government in line.

Plus, of course, as the Sith apprentice, Vader was Palpatine's "heir" (assuming you don't include the Palpatine clones).

I think he got it backward too. But as a soldier I would never feel any loyalty to a Commander that was going around choking people. It would only keep me from screwing up. I doubt that the Officers of the Imperial war machine felt any particular loyalty to Vader. Most likely it was their fear that kept them from fucking up. Except for Ozzell, but he was overconfident and arrogant. I'd say that for most Imperials their loyalty would be to their immediate CO.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2004-10-30 09:39pm

I always thought that the Emperor was pretty iconic to his armed forces. When Commander Jerrod learns that the Emperor is coming to the DSII. Or say, a soldier in Julius Caesar's, Alexander's, or Robert E Lee's army.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-30 09:42pm

Trytostaydead wrote:I always thought that the Emperor was pretty iconic to his armed forces. When Commander Jerrod learns that the Emperor is coming to the DSII. Or say, a soldier in Julius Caesar's, Alexander's, or Robert E Lee's army.

If so its only because if he finds a fault then heads will role. We were the same way in my Signals Squadron when the Brigade Commander was paying a visit. Don't kid yourself, the average soldier in Palpatines forces would be loyal to his immediate CO. He's only concerened with the Emperor visiting because of the potetential for unpleasent shit to happen if he finds something wrong.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-10-31 05:46am

Kurgan wrote:
Sharp-kun wrote:
Kurgan wrote:A split second later and he could have pushed Luke's swing into Palpy's head (or blocked a little less forcefully). I wonder how that would have turned out... ; )
Probably Palpy would have had some trick. You don't try to get someone to kill you unless your ready, and he knew Vader could have taken that chance to to kill him.
Saber-proof clothes. Lot of good they did him against Vader's patented "evil overlord-toss."

Well his robes could have had cortisis thread in them, we know he knew about that trick.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2004-10-31 09:21am

How about (lack of) support from Imperial high-rank officials? I think what demotivated Vader from getting rid of His Excellency is because he realized most admirals despises him. I mean, take a look at TESB. Chocking admirals at whim doesn't make him popular. Also take a look at Motti's attitude in ANH. Probably, in enforcing discipline and fear, His Majesty always put Vader as scapegoat while posing himself as wise, popular ruler? (some kind of bad cop/good cop acting?)

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-11-01 03:55pm

There are several reasons.

First of all the Emperors tower itself is heavily shielded.

As others have pointed out Vader knew the Emperor is very cunning and he'd need to be up close

The Emperor is very strong in the force. Vader knew he'd need his son in some way to kill the Emperor. (Like a distraction)

Vader blocked his sons attack because he knew that the Emperor was probably testing his loyalty. Vader also still needed the Emperor because Vader was not yet done learning all he could from the old dark side master.

GeneralTacticus · Post by **GeneralTacticus** » 2004-11-01 07:18pm

And, per the novelisation, he wasn't going to allow Luke to kill the Emperor until he'd already turned to the Dark Side, otherwise he might pull back from the brink and return to the Rebellion.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2004-11-01 08:54pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:
I think Trytostaydead got it backward; for the Imperial Officery, Vader IS the Emperor's will and enforcement. If the Emperor died, fear of Vader would probably keep the Imperial Government in line.

Plus, of course, as the Sith apprentice, Vader was Palpatine's "heir" (assuming you don't include the Palpatine clones).
I think he got it backward too. But as a soldier I would never feel any loyalty to a Commander that was going around choking people. It would only keep me from screwing up. I doubt that the Officers of the Imperial war machine felt any particular loyalty to Vader. Most likely it was their fear that kept them from fucking up. Except for Ozzell, but he was overconfident and arrogant. I'd say that for most Imperials their loyalty would be to their immediate CO.

The question really is, did Piett truly dislike Vadar to an extreme? I personally don't think so. Piett knew to an degree that Vader recognised his abilities and skills. He was spared at the end of TESB and by the time of Shadows of the Empire he was Vader's Admiral and in operational charge of all military that Vader directly controlled. The working relationship was good by ROTJ and Piett's position was solid and would likely receive promotion.

To the point however, the Executor's officers and to an extension its crew is very loyal and handpicked by Piett. He probably had exterted his influence over Vader to save those he valued or was in his inner circle. Piett had too much to gain if Vader succeeded with a coup, and if he failed he could have defected possibly with his crew or surrended immeaditely and show complete fealty to the Emperor.