Why is being liberal considered bad?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-10-29 08:03am

Seriously, we hear that "most liberal senator" bullshit that Jon Stewart eviscerated tossed around like hotcakes during this election. When did being liberal become an insult in the general American political scene?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-10-29 08:05am

I would imagine it's along the line that:

Liberals = Hippies= Socialists/Communists.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-10-29 08:09am

Gandalf wrote:I would imagine it's along the line that:

Liberals = Hippies= Socialists/Communists.

And that's that.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-10-29 08:41am

Now while I agree that socialits/commies are bad, that doesnt necessarily mean liberals are intrinsically bad.

it is a matter of degree

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2004-10-29 08:42am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Gandalf wrote:I would imagine it's along the line that:

Liberals = Hippies= Socialists/Communists.
And that's that.

Ayup. You nailed it.

Damn slippery-slope fallacy if ever there was one.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-10-29 08:52am

Actually, if the mindless dicks accusing Kerry could actually prove their claims, then they'd probably have a point; being too far left is bad, just like being too far right is because either extreme doesn't represent the majority of the people. Their problem is, they haven't proved that, have they? "OMG LOOK AT HIS VOTING RECORD!!!" proves NOTHING!

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-10-29 08:55am

BoredShirtless wrote:Actually, if the mindless dicks accusing Kerry could actually prove their claims, then they'd probably have a point; being too far left is bad, just like being too far right is because either extreme doesn't represent the majority of the people. Their problem is, they haven't proved that, have they? "OMG LOOK AT HIS VOTING RECORD!!!" proves NOTHING!

go sing that song on DU...

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-10-29 09:00am

theski wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:Actually, if the mindless dicks accusing Kerry could actually prove their claims, then they'd probably have a point; being too far left is bad, just like being too far right is because either extreme doesn't represent the majority of the people. Their problem is, they haven't proved that, have they? "OMG LOOK AT HIS VOTING RECORD!!!" proves NOTHING!
go sing that song on DU...

Shut the fuck up, you're empty, go revoke your right to vote.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-10-29 09:01am

BoredShirtless wrote:
theski wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:Actually, if the mindless dicks accusing Kerry could actually prove their claims, then they'd probably have a point; being too far left is bad, just like being too far right is because either extreme doesn't represent the majority of the people. Their problem is, they haven't proved that, have they? "OMG LOOK AT HIS VOTING RECORD!!!" proves NOTHING!
go sing that song on DU...
Shut the fuck up, you're empty, go revoke your right to vote.

Piss off did you even read the Kerry list of votes before you Opened your YAP>>..

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-10-29 09:05am

theski wrote:Piss off did you even read the Kerry list of votes before you Opened your YAP>>..

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 19#1303519

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-10-29 09:09am

BoredShirtless wrote:
theski wrote:Piss off did you even read the Kerry list of votes before you Opened your YAP>>..
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 19#1303519

I gave you a full list 10 mins ago in the 911 thread... take a look

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-10-29 09:16am

theski wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:
theski wrote:Piss off did you even read the Kerry list of votes before you Opened your YAP>>..
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 19#1303519

I gave you a full list 10 mins ago in the 911 thread... take a look

It's the votes themselves which define whether he is too liberal, not the tally. In other words, if the majority of the issues voted on where sitting around the middle but a little to the left, then he ISN'T AN EXTREME LIBERAL, is he?

Also another minor point is that the ends for some of his votes aren't apparent in the wording of the vote.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-10-29 09:19am

BoredShirtless wrote:
theski wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote: http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 19#1303519

I gave you a full list 10 mins ago in the 911 thread... take a look
It's the votes themselves which define whether he is too liberal, not the tally. In other words, if the majority of the issues voted on where sitting around the middle but a little to the left, then he ISN'T AN EXTREME LIBERAL, is he?

Also another minor point is that the ends for some of his votes aren't apparent in the wording of the vote.

I never said he was a extreme Liberal.. Just too liberal for me and Rated near or on the top in the senate...

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-10-29 09:26am

HemlockGrey wrote:Seriously, we hear that "most liberal senator" bullshit that Jon Stewart eviscerated tossed around like hotcakes during this election. When did being liberal become an insult in the general American political scene?

around about the same time "conservative" beacme an insult.

[obiwan kenobi] It all depends on your point of view. [obiwan kenobi]

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-10-29 09:27am

theski wrote:I never said he was a extreme Liberal.. Just too liberal for me and Rated near or on the top in the senate...

I'll try again. The issues define whether he is too liberal, not the tally of the votes. Let me give you an example. Five issues:

#Issue 1. Extremely LEFT. John Kerry votes NO.
#Issue 2. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.
#Issue 3. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.
#Issue 4. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.
#Issue 5. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.

If this where representive of his voting record, he would be classified as a MODERATE.

Once again; look at the ISSUES, not his vote tally.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-10-29 09:29am

BoredShirtless wrote:
theski wrote:I never said he was a extreme Liberal.. Just too liberal for me and Rated near or on the top in the senate...
I'll try again. The issues define whether he is too liberal, not the tally of the votes. Let me give you an example. Five issues:

#Issue 1. Extremely LEFT. John Kerry votes NO.
#Issue 2. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.
#Issue 3. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.
#Issue 4. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.
#Issue 5. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.

If this where representive of his voting record, he would be classified as a MODERATE.

Compared to whom??? Mao.....

Once again; look at the ISSUES, not his vote tally.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-10-29 09:56am

theski wrote:Compared to whom??? Mao.....

Brain washed.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-10-29 09:57am

BoredShirtless wrote:
theski wrote:Compared to whom??? Mao.....
Brain washed.

You are damm funny...

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-10-29 09:58am

Because basically when the GOP started pulling this bullshit back in the 80s, liberals in general and the Democratic Party in particular didn't bother to respond in any way. The bolder and more extreme the rhetoric got, the more liberals and Democrats shied away from confronting it. Now, it's gotten to the point where many liberals and the Democratic Party are afraid to stand and fight, and the "Liberals are BAD" mantra of the GOP spin-machine just keeps ratcheting up to ever increasing levels of shrill, almost Nazi-like fanatacism (e.g. Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity). And it will continue to get worse as long as the liberal side just keep letting it happen without putting up any sort of fight.

Yarcamos · Post by **Yarcamos** » 2004-10-29 10:06am

To be considered as offensive it has to be taken as offensive as well.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-10-29 10:23am

Yarcamos wrote:To be considered as offensive it has to be taken as offensive as well.

I see. So, unless a public consensus exists that (for example) Ann Coulter's statements that liberals are America-hating traitors are offensive, it somehow isn't offensive?

Yarcamos · Post by **Yarcamos** » 2004-10-29 10:34am

Patrick Degan wrote:
Yarcamos wrote:To be considered as offensive it has to be taken as offensive as well.
I see. So, unless a public consensus exists that (for example) Ann Coulter's statements that liberals are America-hating traitors are offensive, it somehow isn't offensive?

Let me ask then, is the word conservative considered offensive? Not the last time I checked. When someone is termed a conservative I see most conservatives say, "Dang right," or "proud of it." When someone is termed a liberal they seem to cry, "Why is that a bad thing?" Why not say the same thing conservatives do, "DANG RIGHT!"?

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-10-29 10:41am

Patrick, the two major political parties have been pulling this shit on each other for as long as they have been in existance. Is it your opinion that the (leftist) labor movement in the 1930's didn't portray the Republicans as evil robber baron conservatives?, or that in the 1950's McCarthyist Republicans didn't label liberals as commies? Or that the anti war counter culture movement..... Or the Reganites.... THIS IS NOTHING NEW!

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-10-29 11:19am

Col. Crackpot wrote:around about the same time "conservative" beacme an insult.

Oh Christ, are you serious? You know, before Bush became president, I might have agreed with your overall point that both parties are just as bad as each other. But throughout Bush's presidency, it's become manifestly clear that the Republicans are willing to sink far, far lower to achieve their goals.

"Conservative" is not an insult, nor does the public view it as one. Liberals do not use it as one. No one has tried to destroy Bush's credibility in the public eye by claiming he has the "most conservative president." It is not possible to stop a movement for social progress in its tracks by labeling it as "political correctness." Both of these labels came from the Right.

Jalinth · Post by **Jalinth** » 2004-10-29 11:56am

BoredShirtless wrote:
theski wrote:I never said he was a extreme Liberal.. Just too liberal for me and Rated near or on the top in the senate...
I'll try again. The issues define whether he is too liberal, not the tally of the votes. Let me give you an example. Five issues:

#Issue 1. Extremely LEFT. John Kerry votes NO.
#Issue 2. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.
#Issue 3. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.
#Issue 4. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.
#Issue 5. Sits in the middle, a little to the left. John Kerry votes YES.

If this where representive of his voting record, he would be classified as a MODERATE.

Once again; look at the ISSUES, not his vote tally.

You have to be very careful with voting records. The US Congress often "log rolls" completely unrelated and often offensive (especially in a fiscal sense) amendments into a larger bill. So some people vote down the bill not for its main target, but for all the unrelated crap that it contains. This is why a line item veto helps.

Look at the recent tax bill. The "main" point - comply with the WTO rulings and avoid EU countervailing sanctions for discriminatory trade rules, made perfect sense. The mechanism isn't great, but was tolerable. But look at all the other crap that was bundled together with it - tax cuts for every special interest group.

A senator/congresscriter could easily vote against that bill because of all the toxic clutter it contains. They'd could be portrayed as "pro-tax" but are really against inefficient tax cuts for special interest groups. Essentially a form of welfare for certain industries.

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Why is being liberal considered bad?

Why is being liberal considered bad?

Re: Why is being liberal considered bad?