Religious Irony Women's Rights and Christianity

[The Yosemite Bear]

Ok, when Christianity was just another crazy Jewish Cult, they actually got their milage by appealing to Jewish women. Allowing them to take part in rituals that had been forbidden by the more conservative sects. Later in the Roman Empire's decline, they managed to convert the WIVES of the Roman soldiers who were forbidden to take part in the Ceremonies to Mithras. The Soldier's became reluctantly converted to please their better halves. Later the same thing happened to the Vikings, who as late as Erik the Red, found themselves locked out of their own long houses until they were willing to deny Odin, in favor of the Christian faith. Ditto Charlemane who converted to please his second wife, and to get money to wrest the throne away from his brother.

So with that in mind, Why has Christianity been so oppressive of women. They owe their existance, and power as it presently exists, for the most part because women withheld sex, in order to convert their husbands.

[EmperorMing]

Big double standard as far as I am concerned...

[Stormbringer]

So with that in mind, Why has Christianity been so oppressive of women. They owe their existance, and power as it presently exists, for the most part because women withheld sex, in order to convert their husbands.

Because the men, once converted saw all the wonderful misgony in the Bible and took advantage of it. As plain and simple as that.

[HemlockGrey]

Oppressive of women? Perhaps the Catholic sects and the fundie sects...

[Darth Wong]

Oppressive of women? Perhaps the Catholic sects and the fundie sects...

Any sect which slavishly follows the misogynistic teachings of "Saint" Paul, whose writings constitute the bulk of the New Testament.

[EmperorMing]

I'm gonna have to sit down and re-read a bunch of this stuff again....

Oops-...For my own edutainment.

[Peregrin Toker]

Oppressive of women? Perhaps the Catholic sects and the fundie sects...

Any sect which slavishly follows the misogynistic teachings of "Saint" Paul, whose writings constitute the bulk of the New Testament.

Actually, I have heard that St. Paulus shoehorned Christianity into Roman social norms in order to make it easier to preach... What a pity that the Roman Empire was such a patriarchal society at that time....

[Wicked Pilot]

Who cares? Religion is bull, bulls produce bullshit. Any questions?

[Stormbringer]

Oppressive of women? Perhaps the Catholic sects and the fundie sects...

Any sect which slavishly follows the misogynistic teachings of "Saint" Paul, whose writings constitute the bulk of the New Testament.

Actually, I have heard that St. Paulus shoehorned Christianity into Roman social norms in order to make it easier to preach... What a pity that the Roman Empire was such a patriarchal society at that time....

I'm inclined to think he was a self loathing, misogynist, with a tiny micro-penis. He scorned women and sex to a degree even Rome didn't preach.

[Darth Wong]

Rome didn't scorn sex at all; remember the bath houses and orgies? It was patriarchal, but nowhere near as mysoginistic as Paul. Paul's hatred of women and of sex was his problem, and it is simply ridiculous to blame it on Rome (if Caesar shared Paul's opinions on strong women, he wouldn't have been interested in Cleopatra, would he?). It never ceases to amaze me how people will make flimsy excuses for the Bible.

[ElBlanco]

Oppressive of women? Perhaps the Catholic sects and the fundie sects...

Any sect which slavishly follows the misogynistic teachings of "Saint" Paul, whose writings constitute the bulk of the New Testament.

The only part of the New Testement Paul wrote were a few Epistles and I think he is refered to in Acts ( My Bible isn't handy at the moment), he had nothing to do with the Gospels or Revelations.

He was instrumental in allowing Gentiles into Christianity and allowing it to grow into more than a Jewish cult. Thats not to say he wasn't a whack job. He was inspired by God, like the other authors, but, like the other authors, took a few liberties.

The way I was taught, women are our equals and get every right and privalege men do.

[AdmiralKanos]

The way I was taught, women are our equals and get every right and privalege men do.

Riiiight. And all of that "women shall not speak in the church" stuff isn't in your copy of the Bible?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

The way I was taught, women are our equals and get every right and privalege men do.

Riiiight. And all of that "women shall not speak in the church" stuff isn't in your copy of the Bible?

<Fundie>
That's equal but different. Nothing wrong there. DON'T YOU OPPRESS ME!!!
</Fundie>

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

The way I was taught, women are our equals and get every right and privalege men do.

Riiiight. And all of that "women shall not speak in the church" stuff isn't in your copy of the Bible?

Perhaps he wasn't taught that stuff. You don't see pastors preaching about "Slaying the idol-worshippers", "Putting gays to ", and "Stoning women that aren't virgins on their wedding night".

They've found a way around the atrocities in the Bible: They don't mention them. I'm sure if someone did brng up one of them, they would take the page out and eat it.

[Durandal]

Perhaps he wasn't taught that stuff. You don't see pastors preaching about "Slaying the idol-worshippers", "Putting gays to ", and "Stoning women that aren't virgins on their wedding night".

And yet, the tomes that contain such laws and practices are labeled as "divinely inspired" and "holy texts."

They've found a way around the atrocities in the Bible: They don't mention them. I'm sure if someone did brng up one of them, they would take the page out and eat it.

Then why doesn't the Catholic Church or one of the other denominations come out and say that the brutalities of the Old Testament were not divinely inspired or ordered, and thus the whole thing will be deleted? They have to own up to it eventually. The first step to fixing a problem is admitting that there's a problem in the first place.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Perhaps he wasn't taught that stuff. You don't see

They've found a way around the atrocities in the Bible: They don't mention them. I'm sure if someone did brng up one of them, they would take the page out and eat it.

Then why doesn't the Catholic Church or one of the other denominations come out and say that the brutalities of the Old Testament were not divinely inspired or ordered, and thus the whole thing will be deleted? They have to own up to it eventually. The first step to fixing a problem is admitting that there's a problem in the first place.

It's not like it would be the first time they've revised the Bible.

[ElBlanco]

The thing about the Bible is that it is the Word of God.....transcribed by humans with free will. We take liberties. Also, the Old Testement was an oral tradition until the time of the Babylonian Captivity. The two main rules troughout the Bible

1) Love God

2) Love each other

All that stuff about wars, and stoning and all that seemingly contradictory stuff, that was all misinterprated by the writers or the people in the stories.

[The Yosemite Bear]

The thing about the Bible is that it is the Word of God.....transcribed by humans with free will. We take liberties. Also, the Old Testement was an oral tradition until the time of the Babylonian Captivity. The two main rules troughout the Bible

1) Love God

2) Love each other

All that stuff about wars, and stoning and all that seemingly contradictory stuff, that was all misinterprated by the writers or the people in the stories.

I know that, I am half Jewish/Half Catholic, I was raised in a very Liberal family, however when my mother movied to an older more conservative community, the parishoner's werer actually shocked that my mother was so well aquinted with the Bible (After all women have been allowed to do this in the Catholic Church for almost a century) the condemnation of women as souless property was only lifted a century and a half ago.

I still know causes of misogynistic men in power in Schools and churches, who continue this sort of persecution. It's a nasty double standard. It was much worse a few centuries ago, when the "Mallus Malefacturum" was part of the religious tenet and laws.

The Amnesty International/UN report on Modern Slavery shows that while Slavery is illegal the world over, Traffic in women as slaves is still occurring in many countries (Including the U.S.) In Cases of Rape, Abuse & Incest women are still told by their priests that the sin is THEIRS. Sure it's against church policy, it still happens. Yes, this is related to whats happening to my sister.

[Darth Wong]

The thing about the Bible is that it is the Word of God.....transcribed by humans with free will. We take liberties. Also, the Old Testement was an oral tradition until the time of the Babylonian Captivity. The two main rules troughout the Bible

1) Love God

2) Love each other

All that stuff about wars, and stoning and all that seemingly contradictory stuff, that was all misinterprated by the writers or the people in the stories.

If it was "misinterpreted", then why don't they get rid of it? Why do they keep teaching it as the Gospel Truth, and calling it the "Good Book"? If the Bible is a "Good Book", then so is Mein Kampf.

[Wicked Pilot]

If it was "misinterpreted", then why don't they get rid of it?

What? You mean think for themselves? Try on their own to figure out what's moral and what's not? Are you mad?

[Durandal]

What? You mean think for themselves? Try on their own to figure out what's moral and what's not? Are you mad?

Clearly. It's OK to think for yourself if you're Christian ... as long as you come to the same conclusions they do.

[HemlockGrey]

Riiiight. And all of that "women shall not speak in the church" stuff isn't in your copy of the Bible?

IIRC, the apostle that said that said it because he couldn't hear and he wanted the women talking behind him to shush.

Of course, I could be full of shit. Have to find the verse, first.

[Darth Wong]

IIRC, the apostle that said that said it because he couldn't hear and he wanted the women talking behind him to shush.

Of course, I could be full of shit. Have to find the verse, first.

Sorry, but:

1 Corinthians 11:3: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 11:7-9: For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11-12: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

This is not an equality-minded person, Cyril. According to Paul, the hierarchy of holiness is God, Christ, men, and then women, women ought to keep silent and remain obedient, and women must not "usurp authority" over men, but "be in silence".

[ElBlanco]

If it was "misinterpreted", then why don't they get rid of it? Why do they keep teaching it as the Gospel Truth, and calling it the "Good Book"? If the Bible is a "Good Book", then so is Mein Kampf.

Like I said, it is still inspired by God. There is just some stuff that needs working on.

As for changing it, think of it this way, how hard is it to add an Ammendment to the Constitution? And thats only 200 years old and not the Word of God.

[Wicked Pilot]

Like I said, it is still inspired by God. There is just some stuff that needs working on.

Which is which then? What do you base that on? Why does x person who says it differently wrong?

As for changing it, think of it this way, how hard is it to add an Ammendment to the Constitution? And thats only 200 years old

There have been almost thirty admendments. That's over one per decade. Are you telling me that in 2000 years, they couldn't remove all or at least some of the bullshit from the Bible? Are you telling me that less than two thirds of Christians believe women should be allowed to speak in church? At least the constitution has the 19th admendment.

and not the Word of God.

Your god is obviously an asshole. Please refrain from spouting any more of his bullshit on this board.