The Solid South

[Stravo]

Bob Novak among others brought up the dilemna that will haunt the Democrats in any national election from now on. The Republicans have as much a lock on the South as the Democrats do on the Northeast and left coast.

What can the Democrats do to break that lock? I don't see much frankly simply because culturally many of the things the South wants or supports is almost anathema to the Dems. The South supports or likes: Opposing Gay rights/Marriage. Gun Control. Right to Life. "Family values"

I cannot for the life of me see the Democrats abandoning core values like that just to win over South Carolina or Georgia. So what to do? Perhaps try to shore up support in the midwest to counter the solid south?

Anyone else have any ideas or thoughts on this matter?

[fgalkin]

The Democrats can do two things.

1) Ignore the South.
2) Pander to the bible-humping evangelical/fundamentalist asshats (yes, I like that term a lot).

There is no middle ground.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Master of Ossus]

Gun control is the obvious one for them to quit on. Give up on the kinds of gun control that cost them elections. Focus campaigns in the states that matter. Win the Northeast, West Coast, and fight in the Midwest.

The good thing for Democrats is that the South just doesn't have that many votes in it. Only Texas provides much of anything, and it's easily outdone by California. While together the South is a fairly big prize, it's not one that spells invincibility for the RNC.

[theski]

The Democrats can do two things.

1) Ignore the South.
2) Pander to the bible-humping evangelical/fundamentalist asshats (yes, I like that term a lot).

There is no middle ground.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Then you will lose..... That is where the population is growing...

[HyperionX]

The trump card of Democrats in the South is the Hispanic vote. Seeing how Bush bows to corporate interests and lets illegal immigrants poor in, it'll be around 2012-2016 or so before the south becomes a Democrat stronghold (assuming the Democrats can maintain a large Hispanic majority).

[Master of Ossus]

The trump card of Democrats in the South is the Hispanic vote. Seeing how Bush bows to corporate interests and lets illegal immigrants poor in, it'll be around 2012-2016 or so before the south becomes a Democrat stronghold (assuming the Democrats can maintain a large Hispanic majority).

Strangely, though, Bush and the Republicans are making inroads there, too. The Hispanic vote is largely Catholic, and they're historically more conservative than blacks and Jews. The Democrats are going to have to hope that they can hold the Hispanic vote in order to have any chance in the South.

[Majin Gojira]

As I said at breakfast:

"It's finally happened: the South has risen again and crushed the North"

[fgalkin]

Just one problem: illegal immigrants can't vote.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Beowulf]

Just one problem: illegal immigrants can't vote.

You'll be sure the Dems will try to let them though.

[Jalinth]

The trump card of Democrats in the South is the Hispanic vote. Seeing how Bush bows to corporate interests and lets illegal immigrants poor in, it'll be around 2012-2016 or so before the south becomes a Democrat stronghold (assuming the Democrats can maintain a large Hispanic majority).

Strangely, though, Bush and the Republicans are making inroads there, too. The Hispanic vote is largely Catholic, and they're historically more conservative than blacks and Jews. The Democrats are going to have to hope that they can hold the Hispanic vote in order to have any chance in the South.

My understanding is that the Hispanic vote doesn't really exist. They come from too many backgrounds (multi-generational US born and bred through 1st generation immigrants), you have the Cuba vs everyone else split, too many different countries (immigrants from Mexico and from Chile are not exactly identical in their views). They are not nearly as homogenous as the "Jewish", "Black" or "Born Again" voters are.

Personally, the South (from Texas east) is essentially lost to the Democrats with the exception of Florida , maybe Louisana until or unless the demographics seriously change. The basic way to win would be hold onto the North East and the West Coast, and fight in the Southwest and Great Lakes/Rust belt states (could anyone tell me exactly which states are considered part of the "Rust Belt").

[SWPIGWANG]

The solution is simple: simply nuke the south so they don't have so many people in them.

The problem is who the hell is gonna do that.....maybe an contact with mr bin?

Realistically, the Dems can change their position....

[Pablo Sanchez]

Then you will lose..... That is where the population is growing...

Leap of logic. You're assuming that all of the population growth is automatically going to keep voting conservative. The substantial growth from immigration is up for grabs and doesn't conform to the traditional Southern issues, and a large proportion of the growth is also occurring in urban areas, which are Democratic strongholds.

[UCBooties]

This election is going to send the Dems even more to the center, while the majority of the country and the Reps march ever further to the right. A sickening but viable prospect.

[Utah Jak]

The Democrats can do two things.

1) Ignore the South.
2) Pander to the bible-humping evangelical/fundamentalist asshats (yes, I like that term a lot).

There is no middle ground.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

No canidate has won the White House without the South. They need a grassroots organization to moblize their base and convert the moderates who moved to the south for work.

[Durandal]

Bob Novak among others brought up the dilemna that will haunt the Democrats in any national election from now on. The Republicans have as much a lock on the South as the Democrats do on the Northeast and left coast.

What can the Democrats do to break that lock? I don't see much frankly simply because culturally many of the things the South wants or supports is almost anathema to the Dems. The South supports or likes: Opposing Gay rights/Marriage. Gun Control. Right to Life. "Family values"

You're right. They can't. There's no way the Democrats can possibly appeal to the racist, xenophobic social values common in the South the way the Republicans can. The only hope the Democrats have would be to appeal to the economic interests of Southerners. Because, when you think about it, they have a lot of the same economic problems as those evil liberal city hippies.

I cannot for the life of me see the Democrats abandoning core values like that just to win over South Carolina or Georgia. So what to do? Perhaps try to shore up support in the midwest to counter the solid south?

In the current climate, the Democrats are doomed. The polarization of the nation has worked to Bush's advantage and created a cultural conflict where people will vote based on cultural values and fear rather than economic interest. In that climate, it's far easier to appeal to the fears of the ignorant and drive them out to vote on those fears.

In this case, Bush appealed to the fears of the Grand Homosexual Conspiracy and terrorism. Notice how Bush has never outwardly said that there's a vast gay conspiracy to corrupt children; he's merely talked about "defending" traditional values. But that's basically the same thing.

Kerry's fatal flaw was that he overestimated the average intelligence of the nation. He gave the voters all the right reasons to vote for him, but those reasons are difficult to comprehend for the average American. To understand those reasons involves critical thinking and logistics. Bush gave the voters all the wrong reasons to vote for him, like appeals to fear. But those reasons are easy to understand because they're emotional. Why do you think Bill Clinton ran around playing the sax on late night? Because people are easily distracted, and they like that kind of shit. Don't kid yourself. People are stupid. They've re-elected George W. Bush. The only reason competent presidents have actually ever been elected was because the people stumbled on to the right choice.

[jcow79]

The people have spoken. It's official, America would rather a retard in office than a liberal.

[theski]

The people have spoken. It's official, America would rather a retard in office than a liberal.

Gosh he got better SAT scores then Kerry...

[Kuja]

The people have spoken. It's official, America would rather a retard in office than a liberal.

Gosh he got better SAT scores then Kerry...

"It's clearly a budget...it's got a lot of numbers in it."

[Admiral Valdemar]

I can see this getting interesting fast...

[Xenophobe3691]

No canidate has won the White House without the South. They need a grassroots organization to moblize their base and convert the moderates who moved to the south for work.

Ahem, look at your five dollar bill. Or your penny. There's an example of a man who pulled it off.

[jcow79]

Gosh he got better SAT scores then Kerry...

...and was still trounced throughout the debates. Perhaps they gave him a 'special' SAT. j/k. I'm just pointing out the fact that a large proportion of Americans view Bush as completely incompetent and yet the word liberal has such a bad connotation and it's showed in the election. In 2000 polls showed that 85% of people thought the economy was in good shape as opposed to around 45% now. Most people don't think Iraq is going well. Yet despite these huge issues, Bush still pulled ahead. The republican underhanded campaigning tactics proved very effective. Not saying the Dems didn't pull some of their own but the Reps were better. They really played on peoples fears, beliefs and emotions.

[Durandal]

No canidate has won the White House without the South. They need a grassroots organization to moblize their base and convert the moderates who moved to the south for work.

Ahem, look at your five dollar bill. Or your penny. There's an example of a man who pulled it off.

[Aeolus]

The trump card of Democrats in the South is the Hispanic vote. Seeing how Bush bows to corporate interests and lets illegal immigrants poor in, it'll be around 2012-2016 or so before the south becomes a Democrat stronghold (assuming the Democrats can maintain a large Hispanic majority).

Problem there..the Reps are gaining in Latino votes.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Ahem, look at your five dollar bill. Or your penny. There's an example of a man who pulled it off.

Bad example. Lincoln was candidate of a single issue party that hit the ball out of the park on its chosen platform and arrived coincident with the death of a major party. A feat not to be repeated.

[theski]

Gosh he got better SAT scores then Kerry...

...and was still trounced throughout the debates. Perhaps they gave him a 'special' SAT. j/k. I'm just pointing out the fact that a large proportion of Americans view Bush as completely incompetent and yet the word liberal has such a bad connotation and it's showed in the election. In 2000 polls showed that 85% of people thought the economy was in good shape as opposed to around 45% now. Most people don't think Iraq is going well. Yet despite these huge issues, Bush still pulled ahead. The republican underhanded campaigning tactics proved very effective. Not saying the Dems didn't pull some of their own but the Reps were better. They really played on peoples fears, beliefs and emotions.

Why dont you just admit.. A good candidate would have beaten BUSH.. I would even agree with that.... Keep your TINFOIL to your self.. Dems used scare tactics as much as Repubs..