Here is to US imperlialism

Emperor Norton II · Post by **Emperor Norton II** » 2002-07-21 03:47am

The USA had the chance to annex all of Mexico in 1849 and did not take it. The whole slave state issue and Bleeding Kansas was in full swing. Anyway The US annexed all of the Mexican territory above the Rio Grande. That’s how we ended up with California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and Utah. Lets all say “the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo” three times fast.

The US did attempt to size Canada during the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. Both attempts were failures. We got kicked in the kester by Great Britain and the Canadians both times. Obviously they really did not want to become Americans, and we did get the hint.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-07-21 07:24am

"I think it says much about our character as a nation that we have not imposed our will on the world in the traditonal sense. American armies are not streaming north and south to secure our frontiers, we are not founding colonies, conquering nations or other general nastiness that the other great powers have done in the past.

We have been described as the most benign super power the world has ever known. THAT is a very cool thought."

I could point out that you don't conquer territory for the same reason Sweden stopped, back a few hundred years ago - it's not economical to take and hold too much land. The US is huge. Extending it would strain its defense.

Much easier to economically subvert the rest of the world.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-21 08:46am

At the very least I'm all for taking over Candinda
One they don't have the Military Forces to stop us and two its a good deal for them.

No more Candian jokes by Order of the President, Violaters shall be shot!

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-21 09:05am

Darth Wong wrote:
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:If I was president, I'd make Canada the 51st state, and then take over the world.
We already are the 51st state, in everything but name. But I wouldn't mind; your dollar is worth more than ours, and your taxes are lower. On the other hand, you have that idiot John Ashcroft running the Justice Department ...
Or, the 2 countries could work together, eliminating stupidity, the root of all evil.
You would first have to start at home, with the creationists. Then you could fan outwards, eliminating stupidity elsewhere as part of the vast global plan. I would offer my Legions of Doom to assist, but they appear to have defected when they figured out that I was lying about my offer to give each of them 72 nude virgins after death (I guess it's easier to sell that story if you're wearing a turban and a long beard).

I'll join if you give me seventy-two virgins

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-07-21 12:11pm

::wandering in::

Actually, I've read an interesting post on another board (pity I lost the link, though). It went something like this: once the ideals of capitalism, freedom and democracy take root in another country and spread, are they not like America anyways? If so, haven't we already won?

Azeron · Post by **Azeron** » 2002-07-21 04:14pm

ohh I am sorry, perhaps I people thought when I said take over other countries, that we should give them representation as well. I don't think foriegners are caapable of participating in a repbulican democracy. I was thinking more about just taxi9ng them and assimiliating them until they started thinking like americans.

I think Canada would be a good edition to the USA, and so would Mexico. I have seen that Canadains really aren't opposed to the idea any more, and are disenfranchised & disillsuioned by their government than becoming part of the USA. we have our differences, its true, but its rather marginalied. There simply isn't a reason for there to be a Canada anymore.

As for mexico the reason we didn't annex the populatded southern region was becasue it was hopelessly corrupt, and we didn't want to deal with it. Surprisingly enough, the average Mexican Citizen at the time was disaapointed that we didn't annex them and dissolve their governemnt and install a new one that wasn't corrupt.

BTW darth Wong, if you run into any catholic creationists, don't forget to remind them that the catholic church does not beleive in creationism as its comonnly known, since Literal interptitation of the old testement has been agaisnt doctrine since St Augestine. we still beleive there is a god, he createed the universe, but the adam and eve thing is just a story.

Resident Commie · Post by **Resident Commie** » 2002-07-21 05:49pm

US Imperialism is already hard at work!!!

Gone are the days of land grabbing and colony making. The world leaders have reailized that a literal "Empire" is totally unfeasible that is why they are busy creating a economic empire, the WTO, the FTAA and globalization in general are conquering foriegn lands, in much the same way the British Empire did 300 years ago. This, however, is a empire not based on the ideals and principles of democracy, but on those of business and capitalism. Actual control of the world is already happening. Freedom in this world is a farce. Control has been achieved. The general population has undergone mass conditioning to accept live by today's imposed standards.

We are consumers, those in control are providers. Will you continue to feed of their lies, and be content. Just as long as you are happy.

The ultimate question is
Will you still be free?

Azeron · Post by **Azeron** » 2002-07-21 06:06pm

hmm a metaphysical empire I see...
I would rather have a literal one. You know as far as empoires go, the US is a pretty nice one. You have your own leaders and do what you feel like doing. We don't even try to stop you. Freedom? well I can go where ever I want in the US, and ridicule any public offiical. I can study and get a job in about every industry. Business is tyranny? I thought iut was more like people doing what they want to do to make a buck. No one sticks a gun to your head and forces you to work.

There is a reason why communism doesn't work, it counts on the leaders being smart enough to make the best decision in many circumstances, many of which is not something they have experience with. Communism gives all rights to the community, and you are not free to go where you want, or work in the industry you want to. you are just a cog in the machine and the people on top give all the good jobs to their kids.

seems like comunism is like fuedalism, except worse, everyone is a slave.

Resident Commie · Post by **Resident Commie** » 2002-07-21 06:57pm

I really don't want to get in to this again but.

"American Capitalism" IS FEUDALISM!!!
Def: control by an entrenched minority esp. for its own benefit : social, political, or economic oligarchy.

And frankly I don't care if you believe me, because too many people here are so ignorant and nationalistic that they won't allow themselves to think out side the governments propaganda. Although if you have a open mind and think that what I am saying my be true, kudos for you.

If your intrested in the reality of things browse a couple chapters of this book:
http://users.uniserve.com/~synergy/welcome.html

"The aim of the book is to provide enough shocking facts about the manipulative practices of America's power elite, that readers will be motivated (i.e., made angry enough) to take part in efforts to bring the richest 1% under control, ...before they impoverish the planet and destroy the biosphere."

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-07-21 07:02pm

"::wandering in::

Actually, I've read an interesting post on another board (pity I lost the link, though). It went something like this: once the ideals of capitalism, freedom and democracy take root in another country and spread, are they not like America anyways? If so, haven't we already won?

If so, you're actually Swedes, as we begun practicing those same ideals about 1000 years ago.

=

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-07-21 08:05pm

Eleas wrote:"::wandering in::
Actually, I've read an interesting post on another board (pity I lost the link, though). It went something like this: once the ideals of capitalism, freedom and democracy take root in another country and spread, are they not like America anyways? If so, haven't we already won?

If so, you're actually Swedes, as we begun practicing those same ideals about 1000 years ago. =

Well, the Native Americans actually invented American democracy independently (the American "Founding Fathers" copied the Iroquois system which was established around 1400 AD). So you could say that the Indians lost the war, but they assimilated the Europeans into their system of government.

The problem of American "capitalist imperialism" is one that also imprisons people inside America, although most of them don't realize it. In America, you have freedom of speech ... unless you infringe on some corporation's intellectual property rights, say anything that pisses off a big company, or try to tell people how copy protection technology works. In America, you have consumer rights ... unless the profits of Corporate America are threatened, in which case you are stuck with ridiculous travesties such as Microsoft's EULA or the DMCA. In America, you have laws designed to protect your privacy from government spying ... but nothing to stop corporations from spying on you, sharing information files on you, etc.

In short, Americans meekly put up with incredible abuses on the part of Corporate America that they would never accept from their elected government. From outside America, it may appear that American Corporations are trying to conquer the world. From inside America, I suspect that it appears they are trying to conquer America too.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-21 08:13pm

Bah! Try and invade Canada. Watch when 2 points come and bite you in the ass.

1. A lot of the world hates the US.
2. All of the world likes Canada.

You do the math...

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-21 08:24pm

Ok Thrawn

Bah! Try and invade Canada. Watch when 2 points come and bite you in the ass.

1. A lot of the world hates the US.
2. All of the world likes Canada.

Try THIS Math Out
Not alot of the world has ability to send troops to USA/Candia Fight

The American Pacific Battle Fleet could handle the rest of the Navys on the planet combined.....
And we have an Atlantic one too....

Oh and
The USA has more tanks than the Candians have troops

More math for you

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-21 09:23pm

Mr Bean wrote: Try THIS Math Out
Not alot of the world has ability to send troops to USA/Candia Fight

The American Pacific Battle Fleet could handle the rest of the Navys on the planet combined.....
And we have an Atlantic one too....

Oh and
The USA has more tanks than the Candians have troops

More math for you

We have drunken beavers! And our swimming Otters and Polar Bears!

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-07-21 10:06pm

I would be interested to find out if others think that US military could still handle a war on two fronts. The U.S. hasn't been very successful in Afghanistan if you consider that they haven't captured Bin Laden or Mullah Omar. Oh wait Bin Laden is dead!

Azeron · Post by **Azeron** » 2002-07-21 10:09pm

"Iroquois system"
You got that from a bad movie didn't you? I hasve heard that garbage made it into a motion picture, absolu te trash. Perhaps we forgot to incorporate the part about killing the higher up to take his position. SO if Tom Daschle wanted to be president he would challenge him to a battle to the death. Thats the "Iroquois system" not exactly democracy. Though there are many appologists for indian tribes, the truth of the matter is, that there really wasn't much democracy outsdie of primitive tribal councils.'

The founders copied noone, it was a completely new draft, with nothing like it in the history of mankind, though they did borrow form the romans and greeks heavily, but made many innovative structures.

"open minded" You notice how people who are constantly spewing out about how "you need to be more open minded" that roughly translates into, "Your only open minded if you aggree with me, and ascent to my baseless rantings without haveingh any clue what I am talking abouit"

The reasoin I don't take you seriously is because You speak in contradictory terms.

"American Capitalism" is Feudalism -- what you had no come back so you blast the same charge back. Capitalism is not fuedalism by definition. I have several millionaires in my family, all are first generation, some didn;t even have a job durnign the great depression. Most of them you would think are millionaires becasue of the regular life they live. That is not indicative a feudalist society, in feudalism, you earn money through your parents, or by killing enough people for it, or through some politiking (very rare but it did happen) With enough effort and foresight, anyone can become wealthy in the US. Not so true in any other place in the world where government connections means you can crush your competitor, and noone will say anything.

As for america being a corporate ruled, it can be said that america is probably a "Merchant Nation". But guess who owns all those corporations that you hate so much? You probably do, and 10's of millions of fellow americans through investments, IRA's, 401(k)'s etc. To complain about corporate profiteering is to complain about the people fatting your savings bank. America's capitalist system is designed so that YOU the average joe wins by default. Don't beleive me, go get a monkey and a copy of the wall street journal and some darts. Have the monkey throw darts at the stock listings and invest blindly in those compaines. Guess What, you will probably make 10% that year!!

As for the EULA's and the DMCA, yah it sucks but hey we livve in a "merchant Nation" where coporations, the manifestations of the economic will of its investors are able to manipulate things better than the average schmow. But show me another large nation in the history of mankind that gave the individual more opportunity to make a difference than America?

As for power elite, I don't think you have actually met any of these people. They are actually quite nice, the ones that can turn around ailing corps like IBM are actually visionairies. You should meat one of them. They are very interesting people.

I don't deny there are schmucks out there who inherited power/money, but those are the few and far inbetween compared to those who made it on merit. In comunism merit only gets you so far unless you are sciencetist. Or if you show too much merit, supperiors were known to ship subordinates out to siberia in the USSR.

Azeron · Post by **Azeron** » 2002-07-21 10:10pm

depends on the type of war. A regular 2 front war against a well armed military, we would probably have to use a nuke or 2. Otherwise our sealift capactiy isn;t what it used to be, but things are chaning these days.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-07-21 10:29pm

Lets say China decides to invade Taiwan and U.S.-Sino relations break down to the point of war. At the same time, North Korea, who are imensely upset at being lumped into the 'axis of evil' decide to back China. This would be the Pacific front. In the middle east, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya, Sudan, and Algeria decide to go in for the kill against Isreal and decalre war on the U.S. as well. I think this makes for an interesting scenario...Could the U.S. win both wars?

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-07-21 10:33pm

Now a two front from mexico and canada would be a breeze. Give everyone in my high school a hand gun, load them all up on school buses and we could take over canada. And mexico, well, down here in Texas, everyone is an armed soldier. As soon as they crossed the Rio Grande then be pushed back and we'd all be drinking taquilla out of the presidents skull by sun down.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-07-21 10:38pm

It wouldn't just be the US though. The brits would help us kick some arab ass. Oh that reminds me of something insanely scary. The french have nukes. THE FRENCH! NUKES! MY GOD! We might get Russia to Two front over in china but they have some problems of there own in that region, although it may give them a reason to march large troops through there and shoot anyone that pulls a gun. Question, are the chinese using kamikaze tactics?

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-07-21 10:40pm

You're assuming that your bus driver knows where the hell Canada is and can drive there without crashing the bus into a liquor store!

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-07-21 10:50pm

I'm going to assume that the Chinese military will take an "if i die we both die" approach to war. Otherwise, they'll fit to the death and use kamakize pilots. Not that a kamakaze run on minuteman missles would do any good!

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-21 10:55pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Mr Bean wrote: Try THIS Math Out
Not alot of the world has ability to send troops to USA/Candia Fight

The American Pacific Battle Fleet could handle the rest of the Navys on the planet combined.....
And we have an Atlantic one too....

Oh and
The USA has more tanks than the Candians have troops

More math for you

And we have millions of drunken monkeys, which the beavers hate and fear for their prowelness in battle.

We have drunken beavers! And our swimming Otters and Polar Bears!

Azeron · Post by **Azeron** » 2002-07-22 12:07am

Well the chinese are known to resort to suicide tactics more reasily than almost any other army in the history of mankind. when a stiuation presents itself between doing something where no one could die and still accomplish the mission, and get allot of people to commit suicide to protect the nation, they tend to pick the suicide option. I remeber reading last year about some general ordering a platoon of soilders to jump onto a hole of a dam to plug the crack it with thier bodies. They all died, and apparently the general didn't engineering about how stupiod that idea was, cause about a minute into a plugged hole their remains were spurted out.

Some people think soilders eager to die in the name of country is a good thing. ussually its not. You just end up with another corpse and lost a lost investment into that human being in form of training and raising. Iran learned that lesson the hard way and lost a whole generation in the iran iraq war. "the secret to winning a war is to get the other poor bastard to die for his country" -patten

2 front war, well I don't think that it ids likely to happen any time soon. if one of the fronts were the middle east, and we have isreal and turkey to keep things striaght.

In case yu are not familiar with isreal, its the ony country in the world that consistantly manges to kick our ass in war games despite having inferior technology. Isreal has the most advanced military doctrine in the world, and the most effective ground forces to date. It could easily kick the shit out of the entire middle east before breakfast and still make it back before lunch.

As forthe arab armies, they are a joke. US forces even refuse to train with them on the grounds that their mind blowingly bad training puts themselves at risk. Most arab soliders refuse to learn how to work a standard radio instead relying on cell phones. The average egyptian soilder can't even hit a target 150 meters out.

North Korea. Just blockae them, and they wil starve into submission.

france, just dressup in a german uniforms and they will naturally surrender. like second nature.

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2002-07-22 12:26am

Something no one has mentioned yet is that China can raise, train, and equip an army of over 200 million men. Short of massive nuclear or biological attacks, the U.S. cannot overcome such a massive army.

Fact is, Russia still has a large, if poorly equipped army. Iraq's current standing army is 4th-largest in the world and is well-equipped and trained.

Also, the U.S. can only maintain a full-scale, high-technology conflict for about one year before the government goes bankrupt.

Given this, would it even be wise to attempt to take on the world? The lifestyle we revere so would definitely suffer, if not be obliterated by such a conflict.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Here is to US imperlialism

My 2 Cents