Is there anything good about Religion?

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-11-03 03:38pm

I know jackshit about religions, but you don't need to know much about religion to realize that some of their claims are ridiculous, and that the world is divided along religious lines.

What do you see in religion, particularily organized religion?

Particularily, how do you draw your morality without religion?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-11-03 03:40pm

Why don't you try giving your own answer first? It's not as if mine is a secret.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-11-03 03:42pm

To be honest, where I draw my morality is from my realization that if everybody in the world helped everybody else, the world would be a much better place to live. So I hold open doors for people, I'm usually curteous, and so on.

But I'm not a moral poster boy. I used to volunteer, but I quit because I realized I wasn't making too much of a difference where I was, and honestly I wanted more time to myself. If I see something happen -- like someone steal something, unless its something significant, or from someone I care about, I won't likely do anything about it. In other words, I pick and choose when to be moral carefully, and usually put myself first. That sounds awful, but it is honest.

Brian

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-11-03 03:44pm

Darth Wong wrote:Why don't you try giving your own answer first? It's not as if mine is a secret.

Lol I was in the middle of typing out my answer when you typed your message out... I realized that I was being silly asking for where others got their morality when I didn't even specify where I got mine a second after posting

Brian

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-11-03 04:01pm

To quote Kryten from Red Dwarf:

"Humans don't have a heaven, somoene just made all that up to stop you from going insane."

Back in the old days it was seroously shitty living, people had to have something to look forward to.
Also it was a nice way of explaining things you couldn't. "Thunder? God taking his slippers off."

That's what religon was good for, and for some people it still is good for that, such as Creationists and all those people who "find religion" because their life is going down the crapper.

But given modern scientific understanding and all the comforts we have now religon is definately a dated dea that shuld be relegated to the scrap heap IMO.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2004-11-03 04:07pm

2000AD wrote:To quote Kryten from Red Dwarf:

But given modern scientific understanding and all the comforts we have now religon is definately a dated dea that shuld be relegated to the scrap heap IMO.

Although I personally feel religion still does more harm than good, if it's keeping some assholes in moral check, then I'm willing to let people have it as long as they don't bother me.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2004-11-03 04:40pm

Organized religion is a crutch to prop you up when you feel like there's nothing in the world that makes sense.

It's the hope that yes, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and everythng that's going wrong in your life right now will be made right eventually.

Call it Heaven, call it Karma, call it whatever you want, the human need to know that good things will come to you if you wait is universal.

As for morality, yes, religion is one way of teaching the young how to be civilized. Yes, telling them not to lie or Jesus will hear is blackmail, but it's no worse than telling them to be quiet and go to bed or the boogie-man'll get them.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2004-11-03 04:58pm

I'd say religion works both ways, and is as good or bad as whoever is following it. For some people, it acts as a motivation to do good and stay alive, but it seems that for a still distressingly larger part, it acts as an excuse to shove their beliefs down the throats of others, by force if necessary.

Lindar · Post by **Lindar** » 2004-11-03 06:01pm

I can't use any of those options!*so doesn't click a button, sigh*

Religion to me...well I dunno. I go, I interact, I learn. I won't force it on other people, and i don't see any reason too. If they want it, i'll offer, but it's not really something people talk about much. The main thing that i find it useful for is getting along with people. It's a topic that can be discussed, or avoided. My own opinion though, might be considerex by some to be tainted*wrinkles nose* but I don't care. As long as people are happy, why does it matter what they believe in? Beyond happiness... i don't see anything that it's useful for.

Morality can be drawn without religion, basic stuff. If you don't want someone to hurt you, then don't hurt them. But even thinking like that can cause you to become.. out there.

<<forgive me...>>

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-11-03 06:07pm

Religion allows for a good teaching tool for small children and helps give some people hope for the future etc etc etc. SO long as it doesnt become fundiy religion, it is not a bad thing, not something that does me any good, but some people need a black/white moral structure, or the threat of punishment in order to do the right thing.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-11-03 07:19pm

Religious motivation has provided us with some of the greatest art and architecture...

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2004-11-03 07:22pm

LadyTevar wrote:Call it Heaven, call it Karma, call it whatever you want, the human need to know that good things will come to you if you wait is universal.

If only it were true...

Post by **Cairber** » 2004-11-03 07:46pm

For me, religion is a personal thing. I believe in the teachings of Catholicism, and, while I dont accept a word for word interpretation of the bible, I find comfort in many of the writings and interpretations that have been accepted by the Catholic church. The lesson of the Trinity found in the Roman Catholic Church is one that I would want my children to learn. I would want them to treat others as themselves, to turn the other cheek, to accept love and give love to even their enemies. They will then be free to choose to be confirmed or to decline the sacrament. Its not about "what I see in being a Catholic" its not just about what it GIVES me. Its what I believe and a wonderful example of the life I want to try to live up to.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-11-03 07:50pm

Cairber wrote:For me, religion is a personal thing. I believe in the teachings of Catholicism, and, while I dont accept a word for word interpretation of the bible, I find comfort in many of the writings and interpretations that have been accepted by the Catholic church. The lesson of the Trinity found in the Roman Catholic Church is one that I would want my children to learn. I would want them to treat others as themselves, to turn the other cheek, to accept love and give love to even their enemies. They will then be free to choose to be confirmed or to decline the sacrament. Its not about "what I see in being a Catholic" its not just about what it GIVES me. Its what I believe and a wonderful example of the life I want to try to live up to.

This is why I have a tendency to befriend catholics, if not necessarily the current church heirarchy

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-11-03 11:29pm

This question suggests someone is trying to suck up. If nothing else, many churches incite people to participate in social service (soup kitchens and the like) who would not otherwise.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-11-03 11:46pm

Howedar wrote:This question suggests someone is trying to suck up. If nothing else, many churches incite people to participate in social service (soup kitchens and the like) who would not otherwise.

I couldn't care the fuck about what people think of me on this board. To me, you are all an abstraction far far away from my life. This board could go down tomorrow and I wouldn't care. So why would I want to "suck up"?

The question isn't just about religion, I am more interested in how people draw their morality without religion, and if they draw morality through the same motivations that I have. Which, to be honest, is self-preservation and self-advancement primarily, and a sense of "why should I harm others when they could harm me" secondarily.

Brian

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2004-11-04 12:19am

What's good about religion?

Hot. Easy. Babes.

No, I don't know why either.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-11-04 12:31am

brianeyci wrote:
Howedar wrote:This question suggests someone is trying to suck up. If nothing else, many churches incite people to participate in social service (soup kitchens and the like) who would not otherwise.
I couldn't care the fuck about what people think of me on this board. To me, you are all an abstraction far far away from my life. This board could go down tomorrow and I wouldn't care. So why would I want to "suck up"?

The question isn't just about religion, I am more interested in how people draw their morality without religion, and if they draw morality through the same motivations that I have. Which, to be honest, is self-preservation and self-advancement primarily, and a sense of "why should I harm others when they could harm me" secondarily.

Brian

Nice job on the thread title then, asshat.

Yes, before you ask, I did read the thread.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-11-04 12:36am

Howedar wrote:Nice job on the thread title then, asshat.

Agreed. Bad title. So kill me.

Brian

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-11-04 12:39am

Frank Hipper wrote:Religious motivation has provided us with some of the greatest art and architecture...

I would argue that it was because the artists and architects were there and happened to be patronized by religion. I knew a stained glass artist, and some of his best works were done for churches, but that was because they were the majority of his clients. It wasn't his motivation. His proudest work wasn't the things he made for churches (he was atheist) but a giant beautiful stained glass tiger swallowtail window he made for a friend.

Okay, WHO SAID THEOCRACY?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-11-04 12:55am

Mayabird wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Religious motivation has provided us with some of the greatest art and architecture...
I would argue that it was because the artists and architects were there and happened to be patronized by religion. I knew a stained glass artist, and some of his best works were done for churches, but that was because they were the majority of his clients. It wasn't his motivation. His proudest work wasn't the things he made for churches (he was atheist) but a giant beautiful stained glass tiger swallowtail window he made for a friend.

Okay, WHO SAID THEOCRACY?

I was thinking more in the past, not much of a market for secular art, and little great secular architecture 800 years ago.
And maybe patronization is a far better word to use than motivation, anyhoos.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-11-04 01:03am

Frank Hipper wrote:Religious motivation has provided us with some of the greatest art and architecture...

It has? I suppose I must be a Philistine, because I can't look at a really expensive, ornate church without feeling a profound sense of revulsion at the greed epitomized therein.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-11-04 01:15am

Darth Wong wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Religious motivation has provided us with some of the greatest art and architecture...
It has? I suppose I must be a Philistine, because I can't look at a really expensive, ornate church without feeling a profound sense of revulsion at the greed epitomized therein.

Art and architecture often serve to aggrandize the purchaser, so that's natural, I suppose.

But when I look at Angkor Wat, "greedy bastards" isn't the first thought in my head, even though it's probably more warranted in that case than in a cathedral.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-11-04 01:16am

Hipper may well be referring to something besides massive cathedrals and the like. Much Greek art (statues and shit) were religiously inspired. So were lots of Renaissance works.

I agree with you regarding large and ornate churches, but religion has used a broader brush than that.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-11-04 01:39am

I think Hipper has a point. Michelangelo's art I consider beautiful; the same with a lot of Salvador Dali's religious artwork. I've seen some horrible and wonderful (at the same time) Jewish paintings dealing with the holocaust and their religious reaction to it. Some of the Hindu temples I've seen pictures of are truly amazing. And the dances of some of the Buddhist villages of Southeast Asia are an art form in and of themselves.

That said, there is definitely morality outside of religion. I can't explain my own religious beliefs; I'm still exploring them myself

. It's just something that to me is more felt than thought, like musical performance. For most people's everyday life, religion probably isn't necessary. However, I still find myself returning to the idea that there is something more. I cannot prove it, obviously, and thus don't try to force it on others, just as I don't allow others to force their viewpoints on me. It actually works fairly well, as I've had good religious discussions with the local rabbi, an imam, a couple Sikhs, and a Hindu acquaintance of mine.