What the hell happened in Columbus?

[Alan Bolte]

I hate to sound like a tin-foil hatter, but that bit with the insanely long lines is a bit odd. Ohio's secretary of state, as I understand it, doesn't have the greatest reputation in some circles and is directly responsible for the lack of voting locations in Columbus areas predominantly inhabited by minorities, including the largely-homosexual Short North. I don't really know, I don't pay that much attention to local politics, and I'm not there right now.

And before anyone brings this up, yes I know Bush had a clear victory, etc., etc. This isn't about him or anyone other than Ken Blackwell and anyone else directly involved.

[Darth Wong]

Forget the tinfoil-hat stuff, I don't understand why there have to be such long lines anywhere. I kept hearing about these 2-hour wait times for voting. Why are there such long delays?

When we vote for a federal election in Canada we're always in and out in less than 5 minutes.

[Joe]

Forget the tinfoil-hat stuff, I don't understand why there have to be such long lines anywhere. I kept hearing about these 2-hour wait times for voting. Why are there such long delays?

Higher turnout than usual and poor preparation in light of this fact probably explains the long lines.

[Stormbringer]

Forget the tinfoil-hat stuff, I don't understand why there have to be such long lines anywhere. I kept hearing about these 2-hour wait times for voting. Why are there such long delays?

Because of the extensive paper trail that's been legally mandated; a hell of a lot of it after Florida. I worked at a precint, we had no less than five forms before a person can vote and that's assuming they were all set, if you get some one not it can really screw with things. There simply aren't the people to run the hundreds of people that can show up at once through quickly. And a hell of lot of places just don't have the people to fully staff the precincts adequately which only increases the delays.

What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?

[Stormbringer]

I hate to sound like a tin-foil hatter, but that bit with the insanely long lines is a bit odd. Ohio's secretary of state, as I understand it, doesn't have the greatest reputation in some circles and is directly responsible for the lack of voting locations in Columbus areas predominantly inhabited by minorities, including the largely-homosexual Short North. I don't really know, I don't pay that much attention to local politics, and I'm not there right now.

And before anyone brings this up, yes I know Bush had a clear victory, etc., etc. This isn't about him or anyone other than Ken Blackwell and anyone else directly involved.

They probably didn't have the necessary workers. It's always a hell of a hassle to get the people to feel the positions and a lot of places just had to economize and that made for long lines, and yes in some places (thankfully not in Oakland) less poll locations.

[Darth Wong]

What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?

You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.

[Iceberg]

What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?

You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.

Pretty much what I did. Only substitute "fill in the circle" for "mark an X".

Minnesota has the most absofuckly idiot-proof ballots in existence. They are literally so easy to use that if you are literate enough to read a simple sentence of four words ("The bee sees me."), you can use a Minnesota ballot, and if you've gotten any further in your schooling than third grade, you know how to fill it out (it uses Scantron-type forms, similar to what we've all used in standardized tests at school).

If you want to know why Minnesota never, EVER has a "butterfly ballot" problem, that's why. Because it is LITERALLY impossible to mismark a Minnesota ballot unless you are deliberately trying to do so.

[Alan Bolte]

Yeah, I heard about the lack of workers, kinda slipped my mind when I wrote the post though. Any idea why we can't get workers? Is it a strictly volunteer thing or is it paid? Are we just not paying enough, then? Surely there must be some incentive we can offer. And what the fuck, five forms? I'm glad I voted absentee. Next they're gonna make it as complicated as the tax system.

[Pcm979]

Is the last bit mandatory?

[Patrick Degan]

What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?

You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.

What a concept.

Sort of reminds me of a story about a party thrown for American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts during the height of the moon race. One of the Americans complained about how NASA had been trying to develop a pen that would write in zero-g; inevitable problem with the ink making it to the tip, naturally. He asked the Russian he was talking to if their space agency had managed to come up with a writing tool that would work in zero-g and he answered "Da, it's called a 'pencil'."

[Iceberg]

What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?

You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.

What a concept.

Sort of reminds me of a story about a party thrown for American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts during the height of the moon race. One of the Americans complained about how NASA had been trying to develop a pen that would write in zero-g; inevitable problem with the ink making it to the tip, naturally. He asked the Russian he was talking to if their space agency had managed to come up with a writing tool that would work in zero-g and he answered "Da, it's called a 'pencil'."

That story's an urban legend. NASA had pencils on their first few flights, the pen research started when they realized that broken pencil leads in zero-gee presented an (pardon the pun) astronomical fire hazard.

[Beowulf]

What a concept.

Sort of reminds me of a story about a party thrown for American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts during the height of the moon race. One of the Americans complained about how NASA had been trying to develop a pen that would write in zero-g; inevitable problem with the ink making it to the tip, naturally. He asked the Russian he was talking to if their space agency had managed to come up with a writing tool that would work in zero-g and he answered "Da, it's called a 'pencil'."

Unfortunately, it's a false story. Fisher came up with the pen, then sold it to NASA, which had been using pencils. The problem with pencils is: What happens when you need to sharpen it? Lots of little shavings floating all over the place...

[Stormbringer]

What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?

You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.

That would probably explain it. While, thanks to moronic lawsuit ID is no longer required (because apparently the Democrats have lost their voter fraud skills) there are no less than five long forms to worry about and not enough people to fill them out. Plus there's a whole bunch of stuff to actually get your vote into the machine that counts them.

[Stormbringer]

Yeah, I heard about the lack of workers, kinda slipped my mind when I wrote the post though. Any idea why we can't get workers? Is it a strictly volunteer thing or is it paid? Are we just not paying enough, then? Surely there must be some incentive we can offer. And what the fuck, five forms? I'm glad I voted absentee. Next they're gonna make it as complicated as the tax system.

It varies. But I'd say that long hours (17 hours for me) and little to no pay have a hell of a lot to do with it. It sure as hell does make for a lot of volunteers.

As for the forms, we have the DNC and their Florida lawsuits for a couple of them many of them. Some will go aways with the new technology but there'll still be some. The optical voting machine will do in two of them, like what Iceberg apparently used. (We them we just didn't want to switch haphazardly for this election, some counties didn't have them for the primaries).

[The Dude]

When we vote for a federal election in Canada we're always in and out in less than 5 minutes.

There's a couple factors in our favour I can think of:

1) most Canadians are automatically registered for federal elections by Revenue Canada based on tax info. This means a large majority of people will be able to walk in and vote instantly, even if they made no effort to register. Registered voters do not even need to show ID (provided they can remember their address) unless challenged by a poll worker or party observer. I get the impression that the conditions in US polling places are much stricter almost across the board, and our elections are not blighted by the omnipresence of anal partisan lawyers.

2) In a Canadian federal election, you have one race to vote for: local MP. In American elections, there will be president, congressmen, senators, governor, state legislature, judges, sheriffs, initiatives, and so on. This not only means more decisions, but also more convoluted ballots.

[Iceberg]

Why, now, are poll challengers allowed?

[Stormbringer]

Why, now, are poll challengers allowed?

Until recently they've always been allowed. Still are in most states for that matter. We had one from the Democrats and a UAW challenger at the precinct I worked.

[SyntaxVorlon]

2 hours, HA luxury.
There's a chance of gerrymandering, but I'm not going to follow any lines of thought like that because I just want politics in general to be over.

[Edi]

What the US needs is federal rules for voting in federal elections so that the system is the same across the board in all 50 states and preferably of the idiot-proof variety described for Minnesota. Require the presentation of voter registration cards or some other form of photo ID (driver's license, passport, whatever) that is checked against the voter list, then fill in the form, drop it in the lockbox and go home. That would solve most of it.

The way we do things here, everyone gets their voting notification forms in the mail weeks before an election, and it tells us when what elections we are eligible to vote in, when the election is and where the polling station is, as well as when we can vote early. Early voting ends usually a week before the election date, and all early votes are stamped and sealed in envelopes along with the voting notification form (or if you've forgotten that or lost it, a reprint) that is signed by both the voter and the election official to certify that the vote happened according to procedure. The envelopes go to a lockbox and the boxes go to wait for the actual election day. The law requires them to be ready so that every vote can be counted on the same day, and usually they will have been counted about an hour after the poll stations close.

Voting and taking care of the procedures takes all of five minutes, though one may have to wait for a while if there is a huge crowd going to vote (happens often during the early voting because you have to do that in a post office, and if you go to a major one like the one closest to where I live, you're guaranteed to have to wait between 15 and 30 minutes, but take a small out of the way office and it will take less than five.

Edi

[Stormbringer]

What the US needs is federal rules for voting in federal elections so that the system is the same across the board in all 50 states and preferably of the idiot-proof variety described for Minnesota.

You mean the optical scan? It's on the way, the problem is some places got it in time to switch and others didn't.

Require the presentation of voter registration cards or some other form of photo ID (driver's license, passport, whatever) that is checked against the voter list, then fill in the form, drop it in the lockbox and go home. That would solve most of it.

Already done, the problem is thanks in no small part to Democratic lawsuits there are now several other records that are legally required to be maintained in between. And moronically a voter has to provide no identification at all and poll workers are legally barred from checking it. Such is the idiocy the Democrats have brought us.

And regardless of paperwork or lack there of does count for dick if you don't have the election inspectors you need.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Okay, here's the WI method...

First off, I'm in a reasonably small-ish town, a little closer to Madison than I am to Milwaukee. I waited four and a half hours in line, and this line was just one of four that were operating. There were no less than five people handling the paperwork when I got to the front. I got my paperwork, etc. in within about 30 seconds due to the miraculous fact that I came prepared. While I was waiting, though, I saw at least twenty to thirty morons (mostly college students) clog up the line for about five minutes each because they didn't have the required paperwork.

The problem is a huge friggin turn-out, and large numbers of morons who can't comprehend the simple concept of following directions.

-Damien

[White Haven]

...okay, WHAT paperwork? I walk up to a nearly-deserted polling station (two people in front of me in line), I pass over my driver's lisence, say 'Ben Warhol,' wait 30 seconds for a look-up, and then take my hole-punch ballot over to a voting station. Er...what bloody forms are you people talking about?

[UCBooties]

PA sprang for some nice fancy elecronic machines. Sign your name in the register book, walk into the booth, press the buttons next to the canidates you want, hit the button that says VOTE and you're done.

[Col. Crackpot]

2) In a Canadian federal election, you have one race to vote for: local MP. In American elections, there will be president, congressmen, senators, governor, state legislature, judges, sheriffs, initiatives, and so on. This not only means more decisions, but also more convoluted ballots.

are you saying you don't get to vote for Provincal Premiers, legislatures or (the Canadian equivilant of) Sherriff in addition to not being able to choose your head of state? And this is supposedly better?

[Keevan_Colton]

are you saying you don't get to vote for Provincal Premiers, legislatures or (the Canadian equivilant of) Sherriff in addition to not being able to choose your head of state? And this is supposedly better?

No, he's saying you dont try and do all that on one form on one day.

So long as the canadian system bears even a passing resemblance to it's erstwhile parent, then when there is a general election you just vote for it...if there are other things they happen either with referrendums or local elections.