DVDAnswers does ROTJ

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-03 06:13am

http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?r=0 ... &n=1&burl=

DVDAnswers's Chris Gould details some of the changes made to ROTJ over the SE and 2004 Editions, finishing up the three part review they did of Star Wars changes.

You've probably seen such comparisons before on other sites, but his goes the extra mile with not only comparisons with the original films, but also audio changed clips and there's even a comment form.

Interestingly, he shows the "original" scene of the saber clash in front of Palpatine's face as being the familiar white cores.

Anyway, worth a look!

There's also the previous installments:

Part 2: ESB:
http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?s=8&c=29&n=1&burl=

Part 1: ANH:
http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?r=0 ... &n=1&burl=

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-03 06:33am

All good points. The quality control of the DVDs wasn't what it should have been, but they're still the best SW has ever looked and sounded, overall ...

Guess we'll have to wait for Hi-Def format for the idiots to do it right.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-03 06:58am

I agree with most of the thoughts brought up about the weirdo changes.

I especially liked how he compared Shaw's ghost and Hayden's ghost. Creey look indeed.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-03 07:04am

*Hayden leers at camera*

Lucas: I wish you wouldn't look at the camera like that.

Hayden: Why not?

Lucas: Because it makes the audience uncomfortable.

Hayden: I'm sorry, M'Lord *continues leering anyway*

Lucas: Cut! Print! That's a wrap, folks!

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-03 08:02am

I don't mind Hayden in ROTJ though.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-11-03 10:42am

Ok, first people complain because he looked like a bitch in AOTC and couldn´t possibly become DV. Now they complain that he looks too creepy and couldn´t possibly have become 'good' again....

And I have this creepy feeling we´ll hear the "Palpatine-scream" again in ESB. I just have this feeling the omission from the DVD was one of the errors (even if people, myself included, feel it´s better in the original).

And this just irks me:

Together they sing the execrably bad ‘Jedi Rocks’, which is so out of place it’s untrue…

Ok, I know the music ain´t that great (even if I loved the new sequence when I saw it in the theatre), but how can he (or anyone) judge what kind of music Jabba likes when we don´have any previous reference? It´s fine to say "Had I been in charge, they wouldn´t play that, they would play this!", but since there´s no previous references to the kind of music Jabba like to hear (which would have been a legitimate flaw) I just don´t see how you can call it "out of place". (Outside of personal preference.)

Bad? Sure. Out of place? LOL, has this guy been to the real Jabba´s place personally?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-11-03 02:06pm

VT, compared to the original "Lapti Nek", "Jedi Rocks" is truly a terrible song. It frankly dates the film in a very bad way.

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2004-11-03 03:04pm

I didn't know about most of those changes in the SE. Some of them are really helpful, like the ropes around Han's ankles.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-11-03 04:00pm

Demiurge wrote:I didn't know about most of those changes in the SE. Some of them are really helpful, like the ropes around Han's ankles.

Yeah, that was one change made to the SE that I was completely unaware of before.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2004-11-03 06:45pm

The one that bugs me most is the changing of the actot who read Boba Fetts lines in ESB

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-03 07:08pm

Vympel wrote:I don't mind Hayden in ROTJ though.

There's a difference between accepting it ("okay, fine George, it's you're 'vision'") and wondering why it was done in the first place. ; )

I realize you're not the Director of Return of the Jedi, but at any point did you say to yourself, "you know, I really think that they should replace that old Shaw with a young Hayden Christiansen"? Just curious.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-03 07:25pm

No, but I was always of the opinion that Sebastian Shaw was a bad casting choice. He was simply too old. Besides, I think it's cool for Luke to see his father as he was.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2004-11-03 07:28pm

Vympel wrote:No, but I was always of the opinion that Sebastian Shaw was a bad casting choice. He was simply too old. Besides, I think it's cool for Luke to see his father as he was.

Perhaps. But I do agree that Shaw gave the redeemed Anakin a very warm and caring father, someone who's returned to the Light. Anakin (Hayden) is just creepy looking, not too mention still looking impudent.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-11-03 11:34pm

Trytostaydead wrote:
Vympel wrote:No, but I was always of the opinion that Sebastian Shaw was a bad casting choice. He was simply too old. Besides, I think it's cool for Luke to see his father as he was.
Perhaps. But I do agree that Shaw gave the redeemed Anakin a very warm and caring father, someone who's returned to the Light. Anakin (Hayden) is just creepy looking, not too mention still looking impudent.

Yes, because we all assume that while Anakin was busy being Vader, he learned how to not be creepy or impudent like in his early twenties.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-03 11:51pm

Utsanomiko wrote:
Trytostaydead wrote:
Vympel wrote:No, but I was always of the opinion that Sebastian Shaw was a bad casting choice. He was simply too old. Besides, I think it's cool for Luke to see his father as he was.
Perhaps. But I do agree that Shaw gave the redeemed Anakin a very warm and caring father, someone who's returned to the Light. Anakin (Hayden) is just creepy looking, not too mention still looking impudent.
Yes, because we all assume that while Anakin was busy being Vader, he learned how to not be creepy or impudent like in his early twenties.

Give me a break; its a piss-poor filmic decision and you know it.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-11-04 12:08am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Utsanomiko wrote: Yes, because we all assume that while Anakin was busy being Vader, he learned how to not be creepy or impudent like in his early twenties.
Give me a break; its a piss-poor filmic decision and you know it.

I'll admit it wasn't handled the best way (stop looking at the camera, Hayden, Luke is over there), but I don't think depicting Anakin as the same when he became Vader is any worse or better of a decision than depicting him as healed but old man. He's a ghost; does it really matter how he manifests? As long as he isn't teaching Patrick Swayze to kick around soda cans, I say go with what we know Anakin looks like.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-04 12:20am

Utsanomiko wrote:I'll admit it wasn't handled the best way (stop looking at the camera, Hayden, Luke is over there), but I don't think depicting Anakin as the same when he became Vader is any worse or better of a decision than depicting him as healed but old man. He's a ghost; does it really matter how he manifests? As long as he isn't teaching Patrick Swayze to kick around soda cans, I say go with what we know Anakin looks like.

And Hayden is doing a shitty job of portraying the character for that scene - a "you're right" would've sufficed.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-11-04 12:23am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
And Hayden is doing a shitty job of portraying the character for that scene - a "you're right" would've sufficed.

I didn't say the filmic decision was bad (in fact I think it makes more sense than using a second actor for Anakin), I merely suggested it needed better execution.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-11-04 02:34am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Give me a break; its a piss-poor filmic decision and you know it.

Sorry, but even in the original version, I had a hard time believing this was a man in his 40s. Shaw was damn good in the farewell scene (and that is still there, sans eyebrows), but for standing around silently for five seconds, it doesn´t really matter that much. Hayden or Shaw, it doesn´t really matter. If Lucas wants this to tie in to a ROTS plotpoint, then he´s welcome to do it.

I do agree about the semi-sloppy execution. Maybe a better version come 2007?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And Hayden is doing a shitty job of portraying the character for that scene - a "you're right" would've sufficed.

Tell your ego to go take a cold shower.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-04 07:42am

Of course the age of Anakin wasn't a problem until Lucas decided that Episode I took place 30 years before ANH with a 10 year old Anakin...

The trouble with the scene is now that while the folks who watch the prequels first will recognize him a little easier, Luke himself won't.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-04 07:49am

Kurgan wrote:Of course the age of Anakin wasn't a problem until Lucas decided that Episode I took place 30 years before ANH with a 10 year old Anakin...

Sebastian Shaw was 78 years old when he did Return of the Jedi, and he looks at least in his 70s in the film. By contrast, Alec Guinness was 69- and looks it. Did Obi-Wan take an apprentice older than him? I seriously doubt it, yes? The age of Luke and Leia (ie. 23-24 in ROTJ for Luke) also places a pretty solid limit on how old Anakin wouldn't have been. Alec Guinness termed him "young" in ANH. 53 years old is not young.

The trouble with the scene is now that while the folks who watch the prequels first will recognize him a little easier, Luke himself won't.

It looks like he gets it to me.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-11-04 08:38am

The trouble with the scene is now that while the folks who watch the prequels first will recognize him a little easier, Luke himself won't.

If the Force can do all kinds of crazy shit, it can make him recognize his father the way he used to be.

"...Seeing friends long gone..." and all that jazz Yoda spoke of.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-04 06:28pm

Vympel wrote:
Kurgan wrote:Of course the age of Anakin wasn't a problem until Lucas decided that Episode I took place 30 years before ANH with a 10 year old Anakin...
Sebastian Shaw was 78 years old when he did Return of the Jedi, and he looks at least in his 70s in the film. By contrast, Alec Guinness was 69- and looks it. Did Obi-Wan take an apprentice older than him? I seriously doubt it, yes? The age of Luke and Leia (ie. 23-24 in ROTJ for Luke) also places a pretty solid limit on how old Anakin wouldn't have been. Alec Guinness termed him "young" in ANH. 53 years old is not young.
Fair enough, though we have the "official" ages of the characters not quite corresponding to the ages of the actors at the time of filming.

It looks like he gets it to me.

Before all he had to do was see the guy with hair and clean face. Now he has to see him as he was decades younger. Obviously he "gets it" because the original scene had him looking at Sebastian Shaw!

Sure, maybe the Force told Luke who that young guy (younger than Luke himself at the time) was. Vader appears as a 70 something man under the mask anyway... yeah, I know, the Dark Side, stress, and his injuries made him look 30 years older. ; )

Uther · Post by **Uther** » 2004-11-05 07:15pm

Well, going by the original trilogy, I always figured that Obi Wan and Anakin were roughly the same age, soldiers who met during the Clone Wars. Remember, most people assumed Anakin was a star pilot, not a pod racer.

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2004-11-05 09:44pm

Here we have the same shot from the 2004 DVD release. It looks fairly similar at first glance, but if you look closely you’ll see that the building second from the left has gone in order to make way for a shot of the Jedi Temple. Once again this seems to be another unnecessary attempt to tie the trilogies together. You have to wonder if the Sith would even have allowed the temple to remain standing

Now in the NJO i think Star by Star or Destinys Way when Luke leads a strike team to Coruscant after it was Vongified they find the Jedi Temple all ruined and then they learn that a strange Force sensitive was held under the temple and now is relesed. So that means the Sith never destroyed it.

Plus is there any evidence to the citizenry that a Sith controls their government? Maby Palpatine didnt want the citizens to know that the Sith were running the show?