What the hell happened in Columbus?

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Alan Bolte
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2611
Joined: 2002-07-05 12:17am
Location: Columbus, OH

What the hell happened in Columbus?

Post by Alan Bolte »

I hate to sound like a tin-foil hatter, but that bit with the insanely long lines is a bit odd. Ohio's secretary of state, as I understand it, doesn't have the greatest reputation in some circles and is directly responsible for the lack of voting locations in Columbus areas predominantly inhabited by minorities, including the largely-homosexual Short North. I don't really know, I don't pay that much attention to local politics, and I'm not there right now.

And before anyone brings this up, yes I know Bush had a clear victory, etc., etc. This isn't about him or anyone other than Ken Blackwell and anyone else directly involved.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
Avatar credit
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Forget the tinfoil-hat stuff, I don't understand why there have to be such long lines anywhere. I kept hearing about these 2-hour wait times for voting. Why are there such long delays?

When we vote for a federal election in Canada we're always in and out in less than 5 minutes.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Joe
Space Cowboy
Posts: 17314
Joined: 2002-08-22 09:58pm
Location: Wishing I was in Athens, GA

Post by Joe »

Forget the tinfoil-hat stuff, I don't understand why there have to be such long lines anywhere. I kept hearing about these 2-hour wait times for voting. Why are there such long delays?
Higher turnout than usual and poor preparation in light of this fact probably explains the long lines.
Image

BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman

I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Post by Stormbringer »

Darth Wong wrote:Forget the tinfoil-hat stuff, I don't understand why there have to be such long lines anywhere. I kept hearing about these 2-hour wait times for voting. Why are there such long delays?
Because of the extensive paper trail that's been legally mandated; a hell of a lot of it after Florida. I worked at a precint, we had no less than five forms before a person can vote and that's assuming they were all set, if you get some one not it can really screw with things. There simply aren't the people to run the hundreds of people that can show up at once through quickly. And a hell of lot of places just don't have the people to fully staff the precincts adequately which only increases the delays.

What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?
Image
User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Re: What the hell happened in Columbus?

Post by Stormbringer »

Alan Bolte wrote:I hate to sound like a tin-foil hatter, but that bit with the insanely long lines is a bit odd. Ohio's secretary of state, as I understand it, doesn't have the greatest reputation in some circles and is directly responsible for the lack of voting locations in Columbus areas predominantly inhabited by minorities, including the largely-homosexual Short North. I don't really know, I don't pay that much attention to local politics, and I'm not there right now.

And before anyone brings this up, yes I know Bush had a clear victory, etc., etc. This isn't about him or anyone other than Ken Blackwell and anyone else directly involved.
They probably didn't have the necessary workers. It's always a hell of a hassle to get the people to feel the positions and a lot of places just had to economize and that made for long lines, and yes in some places (thankfully not in Oakland) less poll locations.
Image
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Stormbringer wrote:What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?
You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Iceberg
ASVS Master of Laundry
Posts: 4068
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:23am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Contact:

Post by Iceberg »

Darth Wong wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?
You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.
Pretty much what I did. Only substitute "fill in the circle" for "mark an X".

Minnesota has the most absofuckly idiot-proof ballots in existence. They are literally so easy to use that if you are literate enough to read a simple sentence of four words ("The bee sees me."), you can use a Minnesota ballot, and if you've gotten any further in your schooling than third grade, you know how to fill it out (it uses Scantron-type forms, similar to what we've all used in standardized tests at school).

If you want to know why Minnesota never, EVER has a "butterfly ballot" problem, that's why. Because it is LITERALLY impossible to mismark a Minnesota ballot unless you are deliberately trying to do so.
"Carriers dispense fighters, which dispense assbeatings." - White Haven

| Hyperactive Gundam Pilot of MM | GALE | ASVS | Cleaners | Kibologist (beable) | DFB |
If only one rock and roll song echoes into tomorrow
There won't be anything to keep you from the distant morning glow.
I'm not a man. I just portrayed one for 15 years.
User avatar
Alan Bolte
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2611
Joined: 2002-07-05 12:17am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Alan Bolte »

Yeah, I heard about the lack of workers, kinda slipped my mind when I wrote the post though. Any idea why we can't get workers? Is it a strictly volunteer thing or is it paid? Are we just not paying enough, then? Surely there must be some incentive we can offer. And what the fuck, five forms? I'm glad I voted absentee. Next they're gonna make it as complicated as the tax system.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
Avatar credit
Pcm979
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 4092
Joined: 2002-10-26 12:45am

Post by Pcm979 »

Is the last bit mandatory? :wink:
User avatar
Patrick Degan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14847
Joined: 2002-07-15 08:06am
Location: Orleanian in exile

Post by Patrick Degan »

Darth Wong wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?
You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.
What a concept.

Sort of reminds me of a story about a party thrown for American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts during the height of the moon race. One of the Americans complained about how NASA had been trying to develop a pen that would write in zero-g; inevitable problem with the ink making it to the tip, naturally. He asked the Russian he was talking to if their space agency had managed to come up with a writing tool that would work in zero-g and he answered "Da, it's called a 'pencil'."
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln

People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House

Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
User avatar
Iceberg
ASVS Master of Laundry
Posts: 4068
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:23am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Contact:

Post by Iceberg »

Patrick Degan wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?
You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.
What a concept.

Sort of reminds me of a story about a party thrown for American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts during the height of the moon race. One of the Americans complained about how NASA had been trying to develop a pen that would write in zero-g; inevitable problem with the ink making it to the tip, naturally. He asked the Russian he was talking to if their space agency had managed to come up with a writing tool that would work in zero-g and he answered "Da, it's called a 'pencil'."
That story's an urban legend. NASA had pencils on their first few flights, the pen research started when they realized that broken pencil leads in zero-gee presented an (pardon the pun) astronomical fire hazard.
"Carriers dispense fighters, which dispense assbeatings." - White Haven

| Hyperactive Gundam Pilot of MM | GALE | ASVS | Cleaners | Kibologist (beable) | DFB |
If only one rock and roll song echoes into tomorrow
There won't be anything to keep you from the distant morning glow.
I'm not a man. I just portrayed one for 15 years.
User avatar
Beowulf
The Patrician
Posts: 10619
Joined: 2002-07-04 01:18am
Location: 32ULV

Post by Beowulf »

Patrick Degan wrote:What a concept.

Sort of reminds me of a story about a party thrown for American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts during the height of the moon race. One of the Americans complained about how NASA had been trying to develop a pen that would write in zero-g; inevitable problem with the ink making it to the tip, naturally. He asked the Russian he was talking to if their space agency had managed to come up with a writing tool that would work in zero-g and he answered "Da, it's called a 'pencil'."
Unfortunately, it's a false story. Fisher came up with the pen, then sold it to NASA, which had been using pencils. The problem with pencils is: What happens when you need to sharpen it? Lots of little shavings floating all over the place...
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Post by Stormbringer »

Darth Wong wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:What kind of paperwork is there for the Canadian elections? And what kind of voting equipment?
You hand in your voter registration card, they check you off the list for your "riding" (our version of a "precinct") and hand you a piece of paper with the candidates' names on it. You mark an "X" next to the name of the guy you want to vote for. You stick the paper in a special lockbox. Then you go home and have sex.
That would probably explain it. While, thanks to moronic lawsuit ID is no longer required (because apparently the Democrats have lost their voter fraud skills) there are no less than five long forms to worry about and not enough people to fill them out. Plus there's a whole bunch of stuff to actually get your vote into the machine that counts them.
Image
User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Post by Stormbringer »

Alan Bolte wrote:Yeah, I heard about the lack of workers, kinda slipped my mind when I wrote the post though. Any idea why we can't get workers? Is it a strictly volunteer thing or is it paid? Are we just not paying enough, then? Surely there must be some incentive we can offer. And what the fuck, five forms? I'm glad I voted absentee. Next they're gonna make it as complicated as the tax system.
It varies. But I'd say that long hours (17 hours for me) and little to no pay have a hell of a lot to do with it. It sure as hell does make for a lot of volunteers.

As for the forms, we have the DNC and their Florida lawsuits for a couple of them many of them. Some will go aways with the new technology but there'll still be some. The optical voting machine will do in two of them, like what Iceberg apparently used. (We them we just didn't want to switch haphazardly for this election, some counties didn't have them for the primaries).
Image
User avatar
The Dude
Jedi Knight
Posts: 665
Joined: 2002-09-15 10:37am
Location: Toronto

Post by The Dude »

Darth Wong wrote:When we vote for a federal election in Canada we're always in and out in less than 5 minutes.
There's a couple factors in our favour I can think of:

1) most Canadians are automatically registered for federal elections by Revenue Canada based on tax info. This means a large majority of people will be able to walk in and vote instantly, even if they made no effort to register. Registered voters do not even need to show ID (provided they can remember their address) unless challenged by a poll worker or party observer. I get the impression that the conditions in US polling places are much stricter almost across the board, and our elections are not blighted by the omnipresence of anal partisan lawyers.

2) In a Canadian federal election, you have one race to vote for: local MP. In American elections, there will be president, congressmen, senators, governor, state legislature, judges, sheriffs, initiatives, and so on. This not only means more decisions, but also more convoluted ballots.
User avatar
Iceberg
ASVS Master of Laundry
Posts: 4068
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:23am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Contact:

Post by Iceberg »

Why, now, are poll challengers allowed?
"Carriers dispense fighters, which dispense assbeatings." - White Haven

| Hyperactive Gundam Pilot of MM | GALE | ASVS | Cleaners | Kibologist (beable) | DFB |
If only one rock and roll song echoes into tomorrow
There won't be anything to keep you from the distant morning glow.
I'm not a man. I just portrayed one for 15 years.
User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Post by Stormbringer »

Iceberg wrote:Why, now, are poll challengers allowed?
Until recently they've always been allowed. Still are in most states for that matter. We had one from the Democrats and a UAW challenger at the precinct I worked.
Image
User avatar
SyntaxVorlon
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5954
Joined: 2002-12-18 08:45pm
Location: Places
Contact:

Post by SyntaxVorlon »

2 hours, HA luxury.
There's a chance of gerrymandering, but I'm not going to follow any lines of thought like that because I just want politics in general to be over.
Image
WE, however, do meddle in the affairs of others.
What part of [ Image,Image, N(Image) ] don't you understand?
Skeptical Armada Cynic: ROU Aggressive Logic
SDN Ranger: Skeptical Ambassador
EOD
Mr Golgotha, Ms Scheck, we're running low on skin. I suggest you harvest another lesbian!
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by Edi »

What the US needs is federal rules for voting in federal elections so that the system is the same across the board in all 50 states and preferably of the idiot-proof variety described for Minnesota. Require the presentation of voter registration cards or some other form of photo ID (driver's license, passport, whatever) that is checked against the voter list, then fill in the form, drop it in the lockbox and go home. That would solve most of it.

The way we do things here, everyone gets their voting notification forms in the mail weeks before an election, and it tells us when what elections we are eligible to vote in, when the election is and where the polling station is, as well as when we can vote early. Early voting ends usually a week before the election date, and all early votes are stamped and sealed in envelopes along with the voting notification form (or if you've forgotten that or lost it, a reprint) that is signed by both the voter and the election official to certify that the vote happened according to procedure. The envelopes go to a lockbox and the boxes go to wait for the actual election day. The law requires them to be ready so that every vote can be counted on the same day, and usually they will have been counted about an hour after the poll stations close.

Voting and taking care of the procedures takes all of five minutes, though one may have to wait for a while if there is a huge crowd going to vote (happens often during the early voting because you have to do that in a post office, and if you go to a major one like the one closest to where I live, you're guaranteed to have to wait between 15 and 30 minutes, but take a small out of the way office and it will take less than five.

Edi
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Post by Stormbringer »

Edi wrote:What the US needs is federal rules for voting in federal elections so that the system is the same across the board in all 50 states and preferably of the idiot-proof variety described for Minnesota.
You mean the optical scan? It's on the way, the problem is some places got it in time to switch and others didn't.
Edi wrote:Require the presentation of voter registration cards or some other form of photo ID (driver's license, passport, whatever) that is checked against the voter list, then fill in the form, drop it in the lockbox and go home. That would solve most of it.
Already done, the problem is thanks in no small part to Democratic lawsuits there are now several other records that are legally required to be maintained in between. And moronically a voter has to provide no identification at all and poll workers are legally barred from checking it. Such is the idiocy the Democrats have brought us.

And regardless of paperwork or lack there of does count for dick if you don't have the election inspectors you need.
Image
User avatar
Oni Koneko Damien
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3852
Joined: 2004-03-10 07:23pm
Location: Yar Yar Hump Hump!
Contact:

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

Okay, here's the WI method...

First off, I'm in a reasonably small-ish town, a little closer to Madison than I am to Milwaukee. I waited four and a half hours in line, and this line was just one of four that were operating. There were no less than five people handling the paperwork when I got to the front. I got my paperwork, etc. in within about 30 seconds due to the miraculous fact that I came prepared. While I was waiting, though, I saw at least twenty to thirty morons (mostly college students) clog up the line for about five minutes each because they didn't have the required paperwork.

The problem is a huge friggin turn-out, and large numbers of morons who can't comprehend the simple concept of following directions.

-Damien
Gaian Paradigm: Because not all fantasy has to be childish crap.
Ephemeral Pie: Because not all role-playing has to be shallow.
My art: Because not all DA users are talentless emo twits.
"Phant, quit abusing the He-Wench before he turns you into a caged bitch at a Ren Fair and lets the tourists toss half munched turkey legs at your backside." -Mr. Coffee
User avatar
White Haven
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6360
Joined: 2004-05-17 03:14pm
Location: The North Remembers, When It Can Be Bothered

Post by White Haven »

...okay, WHAT paperwork? I walk up to a nearly-deserted polling station (two people in front of me in line), I pass over my driver's lisence, say 'Ben Warhol,' wait 30 seconds for a look-up, and then take my hole-punch ballot over to a voting station. Er...what bloody forms are you people talking about?
Image
Image
Chronological Incontinence: Time warps around the poster. The thread topic winks out of existence and reappears in 1d10 posts.

Out of Context Theatre, this week starring Darth Nostril.
-'If you really want to fuck with these idiots tell them that there is a vaccine for chemtrails.'

Fiction!: The Final War (Bolo/Lovecraft) (Ch 7 9/15/11), Living (D&D, Complete)Image
User avatar
UCBooties
Jedi Master
Posts: 1011
Joined: 2004-10-15 05:55pm
Location: :-P

Post by UCBooties »

PA sprang for some nice fancy elecronic machines. Sign your name in the register book, walk into the booth, press the buttons next to the canidates you want, hit the button that says VOTE and you're done.
Image
Post 666: Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:51 am
Post 777: Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:49 pm
Post 999: Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:19 am
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10228
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Post by Col. Crackpot »

The Dude wrote: 2) In a Canadian federal election, you have one race to vote for: local MP. In American elections, there will be president, congressmen, senators, governor, state legislature, judges, sheriffs, initiatives, and so on. This not only means more decisions, but also more convoluted ballots.
are you saying you don't get to vote for Provincal Premiers, legislatures or (the Canadian equivilant of) Sherriff in addition to not being able to choose your head of state? And this is supposedly better? :roll: :shock:
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
User avatar
Keevan_Colton
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10355
Joined: 2002-12-30 08:57pm
Location: In the Land of Logic and Reason, two doors down from Lilliput and across the road from Atlantis...
Contact:

Post by Keevan_Colton »

Col. Crackpot wrote: are you saying you don't get to vote for Provincal Premiers, legislatures or (the Canadian equivilant of) Sherriff in addition to not being able to choose your head of state? And this is supposedly better? :roll: :shock:
No, he's saying you dont try and do all that on one form on one day.

So long as the canadian system bears even a passing resemblance to it's erstwhile parent, then when there is a general election you just vote for it...if there are other things they happen either with referrendums or local elections.
"Prodesse Non Nocere."
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
Post Reply