Election Post-Mortem...

[The Cleric]

It takes money to make money. I've learned this lesson well from my father, who bases his business on that and is doing better than he ever dreamed.

Then what the fuck is the definition of fiscal conservative? Someone who only spends money on expensive weapons and oppressing homos? Or are you just dropping terms, idiot?

Big "C." Conservative, not conservative. Giving money back to the wealthy leads to one, or a combination, of 3 things.

1.) Invest in companies and such
2.) Spend it
3.) Save it

The outcomes of those 3 are as follows.

1.) Companies can grow and become more successful and make more money, which can then be taxed
2.) Spent money is taxed at every level for both income and sales, so the government gets a good deal back while it filters down to the lower classes
3.) Banks can/will lend more because of the large amounts of liquid cash sitting there

[Patrick Degan]

It takes money to make money. I've learned this lesson well from my father, who bases his business on that and is doing better than he ever dreamed.

Then what the fuck is the definition of fiscal conservative? Someone who only spends money on expensive weapons and oppressing homos? Or are you just dropping terms, idiot?

Big "C." Conservative, not conservative. Giving money back to the wealthy leads to one, or a combination, of 3 things.

1.) Invest in companies and such
2.) Spend it
3.) Save it

The outcomes of those 3 are as follows.

1.) Companies can grow and become more successful and make more money, which can then be taxed
2.) Spent money is taxed at every level for both income and sales, so the government gets a good deal back while it filters down to the lower classes
3.) Banks can/will lend more because of the large amounts of liquid cash sitting there

Nice theory. Pity that the last experiment in Trickle-Down showed this to be an utter crock of shit, like this one is.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Too bad Bush spent 4 bucks for ever 1 in the military as pork-barrel spending DURING A RECESSION AND TAX BREAKS to help his peons get reelected. (Hint, if you knew anything about your precious, quasi-religious supply-side economics, it calls for slashing taxes and spending - not slashing taxes and upping non-obligatory spending.)

Face it, Load That Should Have Been Swollowed, your definition of "fiscal conservatism" is "whatever the GOP wants to spend money on."

[Patrick Degan]

The sad thing is that Bush was hideously vulnerable because of Iraq and his tossing of fiscal discipline to the winds.

A good antiwar candidate could have beat GWB over the head with Iraq. Kerry really couldn't say much about it without looking like a tool both because of his vote for the war and his refusal to come out and say 'I was misled by bad intelligence when I voted for it'.

A decent fiscally conservative Democrat could have hammered Bush over the budget. Kerry preaching budget discipline would have been laughable given his record.

The Democrats had a candidate that embodied the antiwar sentiment and had a track record of being fiscally responsible when he was Governor of a state.

Yes, I'm saying that Howard Dean would have been President-elect today if the Democrat primary voters hadn't been so worried about 'electablity'.

The irony, it burns.

An analysis one would have a bit of trouble disagreeing with.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Not at my University. We actually managed to turn deeply conservative Orange County into a Democratic win.

Be proud, then. Even if the overall election was a loss, painting the OC blue is quite an achievement.

From my observations, much of the more populous centers of OC were already democratic for this election. I certainly did my part.

Hell, just in the few minutes it took me to vote I heard about a dozen people request paper ballots. It got so bad that the poll workers started to deny them the paper ballots because they were "running out." (This is significant because the rumors of electric voting machine tampering caused the local democratic party to urge people to vote on paper sotheir votes would count. The republicans didn't care. Therefore I conclude that most of the voters turning out at my local precinct were dems.)

Oh, and in the schools I've been to, EVERYONE was for Kerry. Well, except in Berkeley where the students claimed that Kerry was Bush lite, aka Hitler lite. They seriously denounced Kerry as a warmonger! Nader was too conservative, too--he was a sellout. What the fuck is wrong with Cal these days?

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Fuck fair, this is WAR. EVERYTHING that goes wrong over the next two, four and six years MUST be laid at the GOP's doorstep. FEAR SELLS, SO NUKE THE FUCKING GOP, DO IT EARLY, DO IT OFTEN AND DO IT SO MUCH THAT NOBODY HAS THE CHANCE TO THINK ABOUT IT.

American politics has just become a war, and it is all the Republican Party's fault.

The Dems started the war when they pulled that recount BS in 2000. They just didn't realise it.

Bullshit. The GOP had already started it, especially against the moderate reps like McCain. Remember the black baby scandall?

[J]

Well, except in Berkeley where the students claimed that Kerry was Bush lite, aka Hitler lite. They seriously denounced Kerry as a warmonger! Nader was too conservative, too--he was a sellout. What the fuck is wrong with Cal these days?

They're a little well, how should I put this, out of touch in la-la land.

[Uther]

There's no way in hell the average IQ in Mississippi is 85. Isn't that boderline retarded? (Lolz, Bible humpers ARE retarded, stupid). This reminds me of that presidential IQ thing a while back where Clinton was smarter than Steven Hawking.

[Durandal]

and more condescending I see....Yep there are no educated people in the Red states and No educated conservatives....

Stop evading the issue. There is a definite correlation among racist attitudes, poor education levels and the likelihood to approve of and/or vote for George W. Bush. This does not mean that everyone who voted for Bush is racist and uneducated, but it means that being racist and uneducated increases your likelihood to vote for Bush. And that says quite a bit about his platform.

Oh, and of course the poor, uneducated, racist inner cities who vote Democratic don't apply?

No, because they don't vote in droves like the uneducated, racist evangelical Christians do.

[The Cleric]

Stop evading the issue. There is a definite correlation among racist attitudes, poor education levels and the likelihood to approve of and/or vote for George W. Bush. This does not mean that everyone who voted for Bush is racist and uneducated, but it means that being racist and uneducated increases your likelihood to vote for Bush. And that says quite a bit about his platform.

Oh, and of course the poor, uneducated, racist inner cities who vote Democratic don't apply?

No, because they don't vote in droves like the uneducated, racist evangelical Christians do.

Really? Then how do you explain the fact that Baltimore City pretty much determined how the entire state of MD voted?

[Durandal]

Because cities aren't just composed of uneducated minorities; they also have highly educated businessmen. Do I have to hold your hand through everything?

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Well, except in Berkeley where the students claimed that Kerry was Bush lite, aka Hitler lite. They seriously denounced Kerry as a warmonger! Nader was too conservative, too--he was a sellout. What the fuck is wrong with Cal these days?

They're a little well, how should I put this, out of touch in la-la land.

Yeah, but when I was there for the 2000 election, they weren't quite that batshit frothing-at-the-mouth insane. They actually tried to get people to vote for Gore (and Nader), rather than declaring the only viable alternative to oppression (in their eyes) as a nazi bombardier.

[MKSheppard]

Because cities aren't just composed of uneducated minorities; they also have highly educated businessmen. Do I have to hold your hand through everything?

Nowadays they are. You ever heard of Suburban houses for the rich and well educated?

[MKSheppard]

Baltimore City

Baltimore City Stats

28 % HS Grads
21% Some College
10% Bachelor's degree
8.7% Masters

Caroll County MD, which went for Bush

33% HS Grads
27% Some College
16% Bachelors
8.8% Masters

Hey Durandal? What's that sound? The sound of your argument blowing apart.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Which are relatively close-in with cities and often contribute or do not down-play the Democrat votes; look at FL - every pink or red county is BY FAR redneck.

[MKSheppard]

Which are relatively close-in with cities and often contribute or do not down-play the Democrat votes; look at FL - every pink or red county is BY FAR redneck.

Democrat vote in Baltimore City for Kerry 82%
165,055 votes for Kerry

Democrat vote in Baltimore County (Suburb) 52%
140,869 votes for Bush

The suburbs by dint of their existence do Negate the vote of the cities to
a large extent. Which is why baltimore is slowly losing power in MD. They
no longer can absolutely utterly dominate a state-wide election.

[MKSheppard]

Forgot to add. those stats are from the CNN Site for Maryland.

[The Cleric]

Because cities aren't just composed of uneducated minorities; they also have highly educated businessmen. Do I have to hold your hand through everything?

Yeah, I'm sure the educated businessmen (i.e. wealthy) LOVE to live in the highest crime area in the entire state. Here's a hint, the county that I live in voted Republican, and it's just about the wealthiest in the state. And has 2 of the best public highschools in the NATION, Severna Park and Broadneck (where I went ).

[MKSheppard]

Allegehny County, MD, virtually described as a Podunk town

High school graduates (includes equivalency) 42.4%
Some college, or associate's degree 23.4 %
Bachelor's degree 7.6%
Master's, professional or doctorate degree 6.5%

The "some college" level is higher than in Baltimore City, while the
Bachelors and Masters degree is lower by a few percentage.
But the HS Graduate level is incredibly high, probably
because morebackwoodsmen finish HS than do inner city
youth

[MKSheppard]

So if you're going to call us a bunch of inbred hicks who vote for Bush, what do we call your massive inner city Ghetto vote?

[MKSheppard]

Secondly aren't the inner city areas that historically vote democrat also home of black fundamentalism? HALLEUJIAH, PRAISE THE LORD!

[Spyder]

So if you're going to call us a bunch of inbred hicks who vote for Bush, what do we call your massive inner city Ghetto vote?

Intellectuals

[Raptor 597]

Allegehny County, MD, virtually described as a Podunk town

High school graduates (includes equivalency) 42.4%
Some college, or associate's degree 23.4 %
Bachelor's degree 7.6%
Master's, professional or doctorate degree 6.5%

The "some college" level is higher than in Baltimore City, while the
Bachelors and Masters degree is lower by a few percentage.
But the HS Graduate level is incredibly high, probably
because morebackwoodsmen finish HS than do inner city
youth

Thats because Pondunk High School sucks educational balls.

[Durandal]

Because cities aren't just composed of uneducated minorities; they also have highly educated businessmen. Do I have to hold your hand through everything?

Yeah, I'm sure the educated businessmen (i.e. wealthy) LOVE to live in the highest crime area in the entire state. Here's a hint, the county that I live in voted Republican, and it's just about the wealthiest in the state. And has 2 of the best public highschools in the NATION, Severna Park and Broadneck (where I went ).

Ah yes, "Well my county ..." Very convincing.

Polls pointed to this election being a cultural war, not an economic one. Upper-class voters were tending to vote for Kerry because they were scared off by Bush's religious rhetoric, even though they knew that Kerry would roll back their tax breaks. For example:

Strikingly, Bush leads Kerry in the poll among lower- and middle-income white voters, but trails his rival among whites earning at least $100,000 per year.

Bush also runs best among voters without college degrees, whereas Kerry leads not only among college-educated women (a traditional Democratic constituency), but among college-educated men — usually one of the electorate's most reliably Republican groups in the electorate.