"Misunderestimated" Bush?

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Darth Wong
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Post by Darth Wong »

Axis Kast wrote:So the devout are necessarily "ignorant and stupid"?
Yes.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I point out SD.net's rabid, irrational anti-religious bias.
Bullshit. Show how it's irrational, dumb-shit. Religion is irrational, and pointing out that people who vote for theocratic values are "ignorant and stupid" is perfectly reasonable. The most you could possibly argue is that they're just deluded instead of stupid, but the result is the same.
As much as I think it's detestable, plenty of people do have strong, intensively-reasoned arguments as to why they support the Bush moral agenda.
How does this justify your idiotic claim that my anti-religious comments are irrational? Here's a hint for you: "unpopular" and "irrational" are not synonyms.
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Post by Vympel »

Axis Kast wrote:Hell, I have a huge personal beef with the large numbers of people I know in my own Jewish community who regularly apply pressure for me to "Vote Democrat" solely because they think that Democrats are always going to be the staunchest supporters of Israel. Reminding them that they are Americans, not Israelis, is often senseless.
Winner, most ironic comment of the day, goes to Axis Kast! :lol:
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Post by MKSheppard »

""Everybody always makes the mistake of looking South. Al Gore proved he could have been president of the United States without winning one Southern state, including his own."

-John Kerry, January 2004.

8)
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Post by Vympel »

MKSheppard wrote:""Everybody always makes the mistake of looking South. Al Gore proved he could have been president of the United States without winning one Southern state, including his own."

-John Kerry, January 2004.

8)
If Kerry had grown a pair and not been an idiot who rendered the most decisive criticisms of Dubya neutral (i.e. his fuddy-duddy, ill-phrased half-assed opposition to Iraq), that may have been true.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

""Everybody always makes the mistake of looking South. Al Gore proved he could have been president of the United States without winning one Southern state, including his own."

-John Kerry, January 2004.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Vympel wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:""Everybody always makes the mistake of looking South. Al Gore proved he could have been president of the United States without winning one Southern state, including his own."

-John Kerry, January 2004.

8)
If Kerry had grown a pair and not been an idiot who rendered the most decisive criticisms of Dubya neutral (i.e. his fuddy-duddy, ill-phrased half-assed opposition to Iraq), that may have been true.
Kerry was selected precisely because the Democratic leadership was neutral on that issue. And his vast personal wealth also neutered his silly attempts to portray himself as a hero of the underclass: a point I made on the day he was nominated.
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Post by Durandal »

Axis Kast wrote:
The guy was endorsing Bush after Bush's campaign had smeared him with allegations of having an illegitimate black child during the 2000 primaries. Just what kind of devotion are you looking for?
When did this happen?! McCain endorsed Bush because he was expected to do so; yet he also gave the indication that he backed John Kerry's candidacy as well.
During the 2000 presidential primaries, as I said.

Despite the positively nauseating actions of Bush's campaign and supporters during the 2000 primaries, the guy held down his bile and plugged for Bush in 2004. So what if he didn't pop a boner while doing it? I think he's entitled to give some service without a smile after the shit he's been through.
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Post by Axis Kast »

And what would those be, exactly? Keeping in mind that an argument can be "intensively reasoned" and still be flat-out wrong.
And I didn’t deny it. But that doesn’t make every supporter of stricter abortion controls an inherently stupid person.
Bullshit. Show how it's irrational, dumb-shit. Religion is irrational, and pointing out that people who vote for theocratic values are "ignorant and stupid" is perfectly reasonable. The most you could possibly argue is that they're just deluded instead of stupid, but the result is the same.
Your hatred of religious has blinded you to the fact that people can believe in God, and vote for a President based on their expectations for future social policy, and yet still be intelligent.

Take abortion, for example. You rail against people who want to restrict the freedoms of others as bigoted and senseless – but you’ve never similarly denounced the absolutely ridiculous and absurd liberal critics who base President Bush for nominating a man to occupy the judicial position with the most influence over that issue. The charge, on its face, is ridiculous. (And their criticisms are always gender-specific, not just ideological.)

Many people regard abortion as murder. Regardless of whether you believe people should make a choice, you have to agree: something already in the process of creation is being destroyed.

The state is notorious for making wards and resources of people; we must protect ourselves because if we do not, we create liabilities (either in the form of unsupported dependants or liability costs for the state). That’s why we wear seatbelts. That’s why we’re supposed to report crimes, and why the state prosecutes criminals. Abortion advocates consider abortion murder, and they contend that the state has the responsibility to act appropriately.
Despite the positively nauseating actions of Bush's campaign and supporters during the 2000 primaries, the guy held down his bile and plugged for Bush in 2004. So what if he didn't pop a boner while doing it? I think he's entitled to give some service without a smile after the shit he's been through.
Point blank, correct or not to distance himself from Bush, McCain lacks currency among the conservative core - both voters and Congress. And that makes him a poor candidate for a leadership position.
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Post by Augustus »

Darth Wong wrote:Bullshit. Show how it's irrational, dumb-shit. Religion is irrational, and pointing out that people who vote for theocratic values are "ignorant and stupid" is perfectly reasonable. The most you could possibly argue is that they're just deluded instead of stupid, but the result is the same.
Hey Mike,

Not trying to turn this into a debate on religion but, I'm curious how you as an atheist view Pascal's wager. If you don't mind a polite inquiry could you share your thoughts?
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Post by Joe »

The problem with Pascal's Wager is that is assumes there's only one way to believe in God, and that way is the right way and put you in Heaven when you die. The problem is, there's a bajillion different ways to believe in God(s), each of whose proponents claim that theirs is the only way, so what's the point in wasting time on a stupid religious belief when chances are you've got the wrong one (assuming there is a God) anyway?
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Post by Durandal »

Augustus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Bullshit. Show how it's irrational, dumb-shit. Religion is irrational, and pointing out that people who vote for theocratic values are "ignorant and stupid" is perfectly reasonable. The most you could possibly argue is that they're just deluded instead of stupid, but the result is the same.
Hey Mike,

Not trying to turn this into a debate on religion but, I'm curious how you as an atheist view Pascal's wager. If you don't mind a polite inquiry could you share your thoughts?
It unjustifiably assumes that, if there is a God, that God is whoever Pascal says he is.
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Post by Perinquus »

Augustus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Bullshit. Show how it's irrational, dumb-shit. Religion is irrational, and pointing out that people who vote for theocratic values are "ignorant and stupid" is perfectly reasonable. The most you could possibly argue is that they're just deluded instead of stupid, but the result is the same.
Hey Mike,

Not trying to turn this into a debate on religion but, I'm curious how you as an atheist view Pascal's wager. If you don't mind a polite inquiry could you share your thoughts?
I can field that one for him. It's a false dilemma fallacy. The wager is stated from the point of view of whether the Judeo/Christian God exists, or does not. And that's it.

Why should it be limited to that? What if Ormazd is the real god? Or Ouranos? Or even Odin?

There is an unnumbered throng of religions in the world, so how can you possibly justify excluding all but one and betting it against atheism? By the logic of Pascal's wager, you should believe in whatever religion has the worst hell, because that way you avoid losing the biggest if you are right.
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Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn »

Augustus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Bullshit. Show how it's irrational, dumb-shit. Religion is irrational, and pointing out that people who vote for theocratic values are "ignorant and stupid" is perfectly reasonable. The most you could possibly argue is that they're just deluded instead of stupid, but the result is the same.
Hey Mike,

Not trying to turn this into a debate on religion but, I'm curious how you as an atheist view Pascal's wager. If you don't mind a polite inquiry could you share your thoughts?

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Post by Augustus »

I didn't want to derail the discussion and hope I didn't. Thanks all for sharing.
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Post by Gustav32Vasa »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Yeah, Heaven forbid I vote for the guy that you didn't. The only rational explenation must be that I'm too stupid to form my own opinions and shouldn't have been allowed to vote in the first place... :roll:

Grow up.
First; I didn’t mean to call you stupid. You voted for Bush probably because you think he does something right. Those stupid are those that vote for him because he's republican, Christian and so on.

Second, I did not vote for Kerry. :) Look at my location.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Axis Kast wrote:And I didn’t deny it. But that doesn’t make every supporter of stricter abortion controls an inherently stupid person.
You can quibble about whether stupid motivations imply stupid people until the cows come home, and it will still be an irrelevant hair-splitting diversion.
Your hatred of religious has blinded you to the fact that people can believe in God, and vote for a President based on their expectations for future social policy, and yet still be intelligent.
Not when it comes to that subject they can't. They shut off their minds and pray.
Take abortion, for example. You rail against people who want to restrict the freedoms of others as bigoted and senseless – but you’ve never similarly denounced the absolutely ridiculous and absurd liberal critics who base President Bush for nominating a man to occupy the judicial position with the most influence over that issue. The charge, on its face, is ridiculous. (And their criticisms are always gender-specific, not just ideological.)
I was not aware of these people. So what? Have I ever endorsed such idiocy? No? Then you are appealing to the un-addressed issue as a mere smokescreen.
Many people regard abortion as murder. Regardless of whether you believe people should make a choice, you have to agree: something already in the process of creation is being destroyed.
Something with no brain, hence no feelings or thoughts, hence no human rights. Duh.
The state is notorious for making wards and resources of people; we must protect ourselves because if we do not, we create liabilities (either in the form of unsupported dependants or liability costs for the state). That’s why we wear seatbelts. That’s why we’re supposed to report crimes, and why the state prosecutes criminals. Abortion advocates consider abortion murder, and they contend that the state has the responsibility to act appropriately.
I am aware of what they believe. I am also aware that it has no validity, and that the vast majority of anti-abortion activists just happen to be religious; a correlation which I seriously doubt to be sheer coincidence.
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Perinquus wrote:I can field that one for him. It's a false dilemma fallacy. The wager is stated from the point of view of whether the Judeo/Christian God exists, or does not. And that's it.

Why should it be limited to that? What if Ormazd is the real god? Or Ouranos? Or even Odin?

There is an unnumbered throng of religions in the world, so how can you possibly justify excluding all but one and betting it against atheism? By the logic of Pascal's wager, you should believe in whatever religion has the worst hell, because that way you avoid losing the biggest if you are right.
Or the one that offers the most alluring afterlife, that way you will win the most if you are right. Which makes islam look rather good, those 70 virgins are hard to beat.
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Sir Sirius wrote:
Perinquus wrote:I can field that one for him. It's a false dilemma fallacy. The wager is stated from the point of view of whether the Judeo/Christian God exists, or does not. And that's it.

Why should it be limited to that? What if Ormazd is the real god? Or Ouranos? Or even Odin?

There is an unnumbered throng of religions in the world, so how can you possibly justify excluding all but one and betting it against atheism? By the logic of Pascal's wager, you should believe in whatever religion has the worst hell, because that way you avoid losing the biggest if you are right.
Or the one that offers the most alluring afterlife, that way you will win the most if you are right. Which makes islam look rather good, those 70 virgins are hard to beat.
Ah, but does it really? After all, it just says 72 virgins. I don't recall anything else being specified. What if they all look like Rosie O'Donnell or Whoopi Goldberg? The Islamic heaven might lose its appeal pretty damn fast in a case like this.
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Perinquus wrote:
Sir Sirius wrote:
Perinquus wrote:I can field that one for him. It's a false dilemma fallacy. The wager is stated from the point of view of whether the Judeo/Christian God exists, or does not. And that's it.

Why should it be limited to that? What if Ormazd is the real god? Or Ouranos? Or even Odin?

There is an unnumbered throng of religions in the world, so how can you possibly justify excluding all but one and betting it against atheism? By the logic of Pascal's wager, you should believe in whatever religion has the worst hell, because that way you avoid losing the biggest if you are right.
Or the one that offers the most alluring afterlife, that way you will win the most if you are right. Which makes islam look rather good, those 70 virgins are hard to beat.
Ah, but does it really? After all, it just says 72 virgins. I don't recall anything else being specified. What if they all look like Rosie O'Donnell or Whoopi Goldberg? The Islamic heaven might lose its appeal pretty damn fast in a case like this.
AFAIK, it doesn't specify that they'll have sex with you (in fact it's unlikely because they would no longer be virgins :P), or even that they're female. :lol:
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Post by Axis Kast »

You can quibble about whether stupid motivations imply stupid people until the cows come home, and it will still be an irrelevant hair-splitting diversion.
This is your value judgement, Wong. It may surprise many people that moral issues became a major crux of this election, but then again, maybe liberals should have realized that they were also voting on a social platform.
Not when it comes to that subject they can't. They shut off their minds and pray.
People often use religion to develop a sense of moral relativity. I think you’d agree that most of the “good neighbor” dictates of moderate interpretations of religion have positive worth, despite the fact that one can replicate them without necessarily believing in a higher power. In that case, when they vote for Bush, it’s not a matter of prayer at all – but a matter of conscious choice.
I was not aware of these people. So what? Have I ever endorsed such idiocy? No? Then you are appealing to the un-addressed issue as a mere smokescreen.
That’s the problem. Much of the supposed credibility of your criticisms is reliant on the fact that your whining supposedly reflects a broad spectrum of conservatives rather than a mere minority, and yet when challenged with evidence of liberal bias, you charge equivocation and bluster on the part of your opponents. But, if Bush mobilized evangelicals, Kerry and other liberals mobilized their own mindless social voters as well.
Something with no brain, hence no feelings or thoughts, hence no human rights. Duh.
A coma patient is not a human being? Are you suggesting that it isn’t murder if the victim is intellectually barren or brain dead?

You seem to suggesting that it is possible to identify a specific moment at which a developing fetus achieves a point of “sufficient potential,” at which point it begins to have worth as a future member of society.

But what determines that moment of potential? The passage of a few months? All embryos are guaranteed to mature to that point if left unharmed. Regardless of whether you think it serves a social purpose, you are terminating something with potential when you have an abortion. Because that “something” will eventually be a human being, you are preventing life.

There are many devout people who would argue that you have no right to terminate life once the process of creation has begun.
I am aware of what they believe. I am also aware that it has no validity, and that the vast majority of anti-abortion activists just happen to be religious; a correlation which I seriously doubt to be sheer coincidence.
No, you just think it has no validity, because you’re drawing an arbitrary line above which you think potential should be deemed too great to kill.

Furthermore, are you saying that if morality is obtained through religion, that it must be flawed? You, who criticize me regularly for claiming an impartiality based on a rejection of moral value-judgements as a means by which to organize behavior? You certainly seem to advocate injecting some morality into the public forum through government. Are you saying that that changes if people got their morality from a priest rather than a philosopher?
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Post by Darth Wong »

Axis Kast wrote:
You can quibble about whether stupid motivations imply stupid people until the cows come home, and it will still be an irrelevant hair-splitting diversion.
This is your value judgement, Wong. It may surprise many people that moral issues became a major crux of this election, but then again, maybe liberals should have realized that they were also voting on a social platform.
And that refutes the statement ... how?
Not when it comes to that subject they can't. They shut off their minds and pray.
People often use religion to develop a sense of moral relativity. I think you’d agree that most of the “good neighbor” dictates of moderate interpretations of religion have positive worth, despite the fact that one can replicate them without necessarily believing in a higher power. In that case, when they vote for Bush, it’s not a matter of prayer at all – but a matter of conscious choice.
The fact that something is motivated by irrational nonsense does not mean it is not "conscious", hence the fact that it is "conscious" does not refute the point. That's the second point you've answered with a completely irrelevant "rebuttal".
I was not aware of these people. So what? Have I ever endorsed such idiocy? No? Then you are appealing to the un-addressed issue as a mere smokescreen.
That’s the problem. Much of the supposed credibility of your criticisms is reliant on the fact that your whining supposedly reflects a broad spectrum of conservatives rather than a mere minority, and yet when challenged with evidence of liberal bias, you charge equivocation and bluster on the part of your opponents. But, if Bush mobilized evangelicals, Kerry and other liberals mobilized their own mindless social voters as well.
"Tu Quoque" fallacy. And sorry to burst your bubble of stupidity, but material self-interest on the part of a special interest is hardly as mindless as religious insanity.
Something with no brain, hence no feelings or thoughts, hence no human rights. Duh.
A coma patient is not a human being? Are you suggesting that it isn’t murder if the victim is intellectually barren or brain dead?
A coma patient still has a brain, you idiot. And if someone is brain-dead, it is NOT murder; in fact, brain death is used by hospitals to declare that somebody's body can be harvested for organs. If your objective was to demonstrate your ignorance, you succeeded.
You seem to suggesting that it is possible to identify a specific moment at which a developing fetus achieves a point of “sufficient potential,” at which point it begins to have worth as a future member of society.
Yes, and that moment is the development of a functional brain and central nervous system. I think therefore I am. What part of this do you not understand?
But what determines that moment of potential? The passage of a few months? All embryos are guaranteed to mature to that point if left unharmed.
Naturalistic fallacy.
Regardless of whether you think it serves a social purpose, you are terminating something with potential when you have an abortion. Because that “something” will eventually be a human being, you are preventing life.
The same argument could be used to outlaw contraception, dumbshit. Every ovum has the potential to become a baby if surrounded by active sperm.
There are many devout people who would argue that you have no right to terminate life once the process of creation has begun.
Of course there are. So what? Appealing to popular opinion now?
I am aware of what they believe. I am also aware that it has no validity, and that the vast majority of anti-abortion activists just happen to be religious; a correlation which I seriously doubt to be sheer coincidence.
No, you just think it has no validity, because you’re drawing an arbitrary line above which you think potential should be deemed too great to kill.
It is hardly arbitrary, dumbshit. Brain activity is the legal defining line for death, so it should also be the legal defining line for life.
Furthermore, are you saying that if morality is obtained through religion, that it must be flawed?
No, I'm saying that if something is determined to be moral ONLY through religion, it is flawed. Learn to read, dumbshit.
You, who criticize me regularly for claiming an impartiality based on a rejection of moral value-judgements as a means by which to organize behavior? You certainly seem to advocate injecting some morality into the public forum through government. Are you saying that that changes if people got their morality from a priest rather than a philosopher?
If a moral precept can be supported ONLY via religion and has no secular justification, then yes, it's bullshit. I would think that someone who routinely rails against Islamofascism would understand this.
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Post by Axis Kast »

And that refutes the statement ... how?
Calling people stupid does not make them so.
The fact that something is motivated by irrational nonsense does not mean it is not "conscious", hence the fact that it is "conscious" does not refute the point. That's the second point you've answered with a completely irrelevant "rebuttal".
This is all based on your overriding assumption that people who are religious cannot see the correctness of or benefits to moral behavior on multiple levels, and on your ridiculous assertion that because people who chose to live a life of piety do so using texts that have been abused, they lack the faculty to make rational analysis of their contents.
"Tu Quoque" fallacy. And sorry to burst your bubble of stupidity, but material self-interest on the part of a special interest is hardly as mindless as religious insanity.
First of all, pointing out your hypocrisy is perfectly valid, considering that you seem to believe the Republican Party has a virtual monopoly on blind followers.

Secondly, I don’t buy for a moment that you can’t see the fundamental logical disconnect of people who argue that the Surgeon General must be a woman because the decisions made by people in that position affect women. Religious voters work on self-interest, too. And, in fact, it’s a self-interest that makes far more sense than that of the people in my example.
A coma patient still has a brain, you idiot. And if someone is brain-dead, it is NOT murder; in fact, brain death is used by hospitals to declare that somebody's body can be harvested for organs. If your objective was to demonstrate your ignorance, you succeeded.
Then why the fuck do those people have to sign waivers, you idiot? When my grandmother went into the hospital after a stroke, she met a lawyer before signing papers allowing family members to turn off life-support machines if things got worse.
Yes, and that moment is the development of a functional brain and central nervous system. I think therefore I am. What part of this do you not understand?
But your original point is false. Hospitals don’t simply disconnect brain-dead patients unless they’ve been authorized to do so.
No, I'm saying that if something is determined to be moral ONLY through religion, it is flawed. Learn to read, dumbshit.
Which is largely impossible, since all religion must facilitate the society in which it exists.
If a moral precept can be supported ONLY via religion and has no secular justification, then yes, it's bullshit. I would think that someone who routinely rails against Islamofascism would understand this.
People who are religious see value to the application of their morality in the wider world, moron. That it comes from the Bible doesn’t make it wrong. The Bible can be interpreted for good, just as it can be for evil. You’re blaming the tool for the crime.
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Darth Wong
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Post by Darth Wong »

Axis Kast wrote:
And that refutes the statement ... how?
Calling people stupid does not make them so.
Oh yes, and I've never bothered making a more thorough argument against religion anywhere :roll: Don't be a fucking shithead, Kast.
This is all based on your overriding assumption that people who are religious cannot see the correctness of or benefits to moral behavior on multiple levels, and on your ridiculous assertion that because people who chose to live a life of piety do so using texts that have been abused, they lack the faculty to make rational analysis of their contents.
Religion is intrinsically irrational, fucktard.
"Tu Quoque" fallacy. And sorry to burst your bubble of stupidity, but material self-interest on the part of a special interest is hardly as mindless as religious insanity.
First of all, pointing out your hypocrisy is perfectly valid, considering that you seem to believe the Republican Party has a virtual monopoly on blind followers.
How is a union rep or feminist as "blind" as a religious fanatic? They're looking out for their material self-interest, moron. Not following the imagined wishes of a sky pixie.
Secondly, I don’t buy for a moment that you can’t see the fundamental logical disconnect of people who argue that the Surgeon General must be a woman because the decisions made by people in that position affect women. Religious voters work on self-interest, too. And, in fact, it’s a self-interest that makes far more sense than that of the people in my example.
Religious voters work on self-interest which is NON-material and which does NOT exist. If you're too fucking stupid to see the difference, that's not my problem.
A coma patient still has a brain, you idiot. And if someone is brain-dead, it is NOT murder; in fact, brain death is used by hospitals to declare that somebody's body can be harvested for organs. If your objective was to demonstrate your ignorance, you succeeded.
Then why the fuck do those people have to sign waivers, you idiot? When my grandmother went into the hospital after a stroke, she met a lawyer before signing papers allowing family members to turn off life-support machines if things got worse.
That's for coma, not brain-death, you ignorant dipshit. Brain-death is the immediate precursor to legal declaration of complete death.
But your original point is false. Hospitals don’t simply disconnect brain-dead patients unless they’ve been authorized to do so.
Wrong. You are confusing coma with brain-death.
No, I'm saying that if something is determined to be moral ONLY through religion, it is flawed. Learn to read, dumbshit.
Which is largely impossible, since all religion must facilitate the society in which it exists.
Oh right, so the Islamic religion makes Middle Eastern societies work better? :roll:
If a moral precept can be supported ONLY via religion and has no secular justification, then yes, it's bullshit. I would think that someone who routinely rails against Islamofascism would understand this.
People who are religious see value to the application of their morality in the wider world, moron. That it comes from the Bible doesn’t make it wrong.
Learn to read, dipshit. If it can ONLY be found in the Bible, with no other justification, then it cannot be enforced on anyone who doesn't believe in it. What part of this are you too goddamned stupid to understand?
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SirNitram
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Post by SirNitram »

Darth Wong wrote:
But what determines that moment of potential? The passage of a few months? All embryos are guaranteed to mature to that point if left unharmed.
Naturalistic fallacy.
Not so much a fallacy as an outright lie. An embryo is not 'guaranteed' to mature to that point if left untouched; if fact, leaving an embryo untouched only increases the chances it won't!(Increased nutrient intake on the mother's part required.) Further, a vast number every year just fail to get there for whatever reason. Natural errors in the egg or sperm, numerous complications from the mother's health.. The reasons it may not mature are innumerous. There's a reason there's so much out there about how to take care of yourself while pregnant, ladies and germs.

But hey. We shouldn't expect any better than flat out lies anymore.
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Axis Kast
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Post by Axis Kast »

Religion is intrinsically irrational, fucktard.
The benefits are irrespective of the source, fucktard. Plenty of people live in a manner rewarding to both themselves and the people around them while still claiming a fervent belief in that which is written in the Bible.
How is a union rep or feminist as "blind" as a religious fanatic? They're looking out for their material self-interest, moron. Not following the imagined wishes of a sky pixie.
Because their calculations are not based on fact, idiot. When some Jewish voter tells me I have an obligation to vote Democrat regardless of the candidate or his stated policies, but just because some Democrats at some time were strong supporters of Israel, it’s an absolutely bankrupt argument. When some feminists argue that the Surgeon General must necessarily be a woman in order to facilitate their desires, that’s equally as bigoted as when some opponent of abortion opposes the practice because it is antithetical to the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Religious voters work on self-interest which is NON-material and which does NOT exist. If you're too fucking stupid to see the difference, that's not my problem.
So religious voters don’t really have a stake in the way the world works? You’re making the idiotic assertion that religious voters are some incomprehensible “other” who don’t seem to have their own set of reasons for seeking to install leadership that caters to a vision of the world they’ve consciously chosen to support, emulate, and reproduce. They may choose more conservative government because they think that is closest to what is in God’s Book – but that doesn’t mean they haven’t also – and earlier – made the decision that God’s Book sets out the life they want to lead in the first place.
That's for coma, not brain-death, you ignorant dipshit. Brain-death is the immediate precursor to legal declaration of complete death.
The brain-dead can be kept on life support; there are huge legal complications in deciding to break off life support.
Oh right, so the Islamic religion makes Middle Eastern societies work better?
Red herring. We’re arguing whether people can extract positive good from religion and then vote based on their desires to produce that kind of society, not whether religion has been abused in the past.
Learn to read, dipshit. If it can ONLY be found in the Bible, with no other justification, then it cannot be enforced on anyone who doesn't believe in it. What part of this are you too goddamned stupid to understand?
So if the Bible were the only source of the argument: “Thou shalt not kill,” then it would be a bad policy to try and make the government implement? Interesting …
But hey. We shouldn't expect any better than flat out lies anymore.
Only you would point to a broad generalization and claim that I was lying by not mentioning the exceptions everybody already knows about.
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