More USAF friendly fire; a New Jersey school this time

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-11-05 10:32pm

But the guy in Fight Club wasn't a fighter pilot...

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2004-11-05 10:38pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:But the guy in Fight Club wasn't a fighter pilot...

He's talking about calvin and hobbes...

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-11-05 11:08pm

So was I.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-11-06 12:43am

White Haven wrote:...Anyone catch that pilot's name? Calvin might be of age soon... *speculates*

It's not there. For various reasons, it's considered a bad thing to release information like that immediately.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2004-11-06 09:42am

That, Iguana, is both disturbing and makes it make even more sense. Hobbes squeezes the trigger, man!

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-11-06 12:08pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:It probably has something to do with the population density of that part of the country. Down in south Texas we have a bombing range west of where I live, and there ain't nothing around there except steers and rednecks who do their steers.

Little Egg Harbor Township is in Ocean County, which away from the shore during the summer, is about as thinly populated as New Jersey gets. There's hundreds of square miles of virtually uninhabited bog and forest out there. There's no reason why it couldn't be a safe distance from everything. Jersey is crowded, but we're not Bangladesh here.

Most likely they built the school near the range because the inbed dumbshits out there let the area around the base get developed. It even makes a certain amount of sense--might as well build close to the base because the base brings a lot of money to the township and the county, and it's a natural nucleus for new development. And you do less damage to the Pine Barrens building next to a space that's already been cleared out, rather than tearing up virgin forest. If you ignore the fact that it's a bombing range, why not build a school right next to it? Apparently, that's exactly what the township planners did.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-11-06 01:00pm

I was thinking about this and other pilots fuckups, like the EA-6 in Italy,the 2 UN blackhawks and the 4 Canadian soldiers in Afgahnistan,and i wonder if the fact that the planes fly at high speed is the problem,maybe some pilot can't handle it and confuses legit target and friends or residential area.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-11-06 01:13pm

Montcalm wrote:I was thinking about this and other pilots fuckups, like the EA-6 in Italy,the 2 UN blackhawks and the 4 Canadian soldiers in Afgahnistan,and i wonder if the fact that the planes fly at high speed is the problem,maybe some pilot can't handle it and confuses legit target and friends or residential area.

The EA-6 incident happened because the idiot pilot was flying much lower than he should have been (below the minumun ordered "safe" altitude) and the wing of his aircraft severed a ski-lift cable, so it really shouldn't be included in that list...

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-11-06 06:01pm

Ma Deuce wrote:The EA-6 incident happened because the idiot pilot was flying much lower than he should have been (below the minumun ordered "safe" altitude) and the wing of his aircraft severed a ski-lift cable, so it really shouldn't be included in that list...

That accident occured primarily because the ski lift was not on the charts, and no chum for it existed. That was probably, and this is speculation only, the fault of the Italian government. MSAs, (Minimum Safe Altitudes), are based off the highest obstacle within 5 nautical miles of either side of a given route. If that wire is the highest ostruction, but not charted, then the MSA is worthless. Unlike a charted tower with flashers, a thin ski lift wire cannot be seen in the air, it is downright impossible unless a gondola is hanging in the middle. And concerning the altitude, when flying in mountainous area, you fly 'modified contour', which means you can momentarily dip below your designated low level altitude as the terrain rises beneath you. Flying low and fast with your head inside the cockpit instead of outside is downright suicide.

If you could show in court that the pilot or flight crew knew about the wire before they hit it, but tried to hot dog it under, then it would be a clear cut case of manslaughter. But without it being on the charts, and being impossible to see, that is not the case.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-11-06 06:04pm

Montcalm wrote:I was thinking about this and other pilots fuckups, like the EA-6 in Italy,the 2 UN blackhawks and the 4 Canadian soldiers in Afgahnistan,and i wonder if the fact that the planes fly at high speed is the problem,maybe some pilot can't handle it and confuses legit target and friends or residential area.

Maybe it happens because the USAF and other air forces fly vast numbers of hours every year and accidents are inevitable in anything humans do.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-11-08 10:08pm

A bit OT perhaps, but this resembles a minor gripe of mine.

The sheer population density of Singapore has meant that some of our old military bases are now placed around several interesting places. The former 2nd SIR camp at Guillarmard Road, which hosts a 25m firing range, now has 6 schools within 1 kilometer of it, and 4 schools directly beside it, ignoring the HDB flats just nearby.

And of course, nothing can top the fact that NTU, a university is based just inside our training areas in the West, meaning that soldiers on the march can occasionally spot university students.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-11-08 11:38pm

With the Italian incident, there are previously been complaints about the Americans flying too low in that area. Nothing was done, so the result is predictable.