It that *is* the Invisible Hand, which is might not be, then Palpatine's being held prisoner on board, so the Venator's wouldn't shoot to kill.Illuminatus Primus wrote:And that explains how they would've plausibly gotten to such ranges before slaughtering each other how?VT-16 wrote:Nothing so far suggests this is optimal range of firing. The separatists just got unlucky and were caught trying to escape the planet.
Footage of the trailer has leaked- [SPOILER] thoughts?
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You know guys, that 'leaked script' might not be legit. I've seen SEVERAL so-called 'leaked scripts'. So don't believe everything. Someone might have put together a 'leaked script' based on insider info or Hyperspace info and made it sound legit since they knew of some scenes, for all we know. I keep hearing people making comments as if they know for sure how the movie is going to go.Pcm979 wrote:It that *is* the Invisible Hand, which is might not be, then Palpatine's being held prisoner on board, so the Venator's wouldn't shoot to kill.Illuminatus Primus wrote:And that explains how they would've plausibly gotten to such ranges before slaughtering each other how?VT-16 wrote:Nothing so far suggests this is optimal range of firing. The separatists just got unlucky and were caught trying to escape the planet.
I´m not using any leaked script as source of info, only official sources and credible insiders. There is no leaked official script either.Praxis wrote:You know guys, that 'leaked script' might not be legit.
When you see insiders getting it right over and over again (Grievous, Mustafar, Utapau, just to name a few) you start to pay attention.I keep hearing people making comments as if they know for sure how the movie is going to go.
Now, talking about the trailer, I think the walkers in the Wookiee army-shot are three-legged! How does that work?
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BTW Could the "Invisible Hand" be Geonosian Dreanaught mentioned in the novel "Shatterpoint"?
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I'll be damned, but I think you're right.VT-16 wrote:Now, talking about the trailer, I think the walkers in the Wookiee army-shot are three-legged! How does that work?
I believe in a sign of Zeta.
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Ok, we now have:
2, 3, 4, 6, 12 - legged walkers.
THREE LEGS!!! what teh fuck...?
The Destroyer Droids have three legs, so it´s not something new, but still, that looks like a really big vehicle (bigger than the Juggernauts in the same picture, I think). How does it work?
Keep imagining a poor dog with an amputed front leg, hopping along. XP
2, 3, 4, 6, 12 - legged walkers.
THREE LEGS!!! what teh fuck...?
The Destroyer Droids have three legs, so it´s not something new, but still, that looks like a really big vehicle (bigger than the Juggernauts in the same picture, I think). How does it work?
Keep imagining a poor dog with an amputed front leg, hopping along. XP
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I have been wondering just how did that CIS fleet get to Corusant?
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Hyperdrive.Lord Revan wrote:I have been wondering just how did that CIS fleet get to Corusant?
It's Rogue, not Rouge!
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No shit. What I mean arrive with Dooku or later.Rogue 9 wrote:Hyperdrive.Lord Revan wrote:I have been wondering just how did that CIS fleet get to Corusant?
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Only if you take Ackbars words as being absolute truth, rather than as an indicator of just how rare engagements at "point blank range" are. Do you seriously think that Ackbar could have comprehensive knowledge of EVERY battle ever fought?Illuminatus Primus wrote: Unfortunate. Not only is it unrealistic but it does not pan well with ROTJ and esp. the novelisation.
Because there have been prior indications from other sources of the combat occuring in the atmosphere.The clarity and lack of interaction would imply to me low-orbit. I didn't think they were atmospheric. Why do you think so?
Besides which, aside from the issue of firing bolts in the atmosphere is the issue of ships crashing into the ground and weapons fire striking the ground as well.
Emerge from hyperdrive close to the planet (say, Low orbit) and perform a high-acceleration approach by either ion engines or (preferrably, due to the high acceleration possible close in to a planet) repulsors. Rather simple.Illuminatus Primus wrote: And that explains how they would've plausibly gotten to such ranges before slaughtering each other how?
Some do. And TIEs need at least minimal radiation and/or particle shielding to protect the crewers if nothing else (Ref: Black Fleet Crisis trilogy)No, the TIEs don't even have life support or shields or hyperdrive.
Not really- one of the post-production guys said that the atmosphere ends at 60 miles up, and that this takes place at "59 miles up"- it might as well be space. And for all we know, any indication as to where exactly the battle is might not make in into the canon at all (i.e. the novelization).Because there have been prior indications from other sources of the combat occuring in the atmosphere.
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Of course I'm not suggesting that in 25,000 years of tech plateau, it never happened. We're not talking absolutes. The Battle of Coruscant will be one of the key battles of history and since apparently he got earfuls from Tarkin about tactics and strategy I would not be surprised if it came up. The point is obvious: such combat should be exceedingly rare, and to have it appear twice in the filmic medium is not conducive to that implication.Connor MacLeod wrote:Only if you take Ackbars words as being absolute truth, rather than as an indicator of just how rare engagements at "point blank range" are. Do you seriously think that Ackbar could have comprehensive knowledge of EVERY battle ever fought?Illuminatus Primus wrote: Unfortunate. Not only is it unrealistic but it does not pan well with ROTJ and esp. the novelisation.
And how do you think that changes that its silly from an SoD perspective to have hundred-meter broadside exchanges?
If we haven't seen HTL blasts in the atmosphere, why should we be getting so excited yet? What about the SPHA-Ts carving up the Core Ships?Connor MacLeod wrote:Because there have been prior indications from other sources of the combat occuring in the atmosphere.The clarity and lack of interaction would imply to me low-orbit. I didn't think they were atmospheric. Why do you think so?
Obviously with the Invisible Hand, dealing with crashing ships is something which has already been grasped. Not to mention the EU is rife with examples of ships towing their defeated opponent to a stable orbit after slugging it out with them.Connor MacLeod wrote:Besides which, aside from the issue of firing bolts in the atmosphere is the issue of ships crashing into the ground and weapons fire striking the ground as well.
As for loose beams - depends on if there's a shield or not.
Believe it or not, I can imagine how ships can fly on their own power into low orbit. The question is why they would do this, and again, why didn't they get torn up by standard range ahead of time. Both of which are dealt with internally with Endor.Connor MacLeod wrote:Emerge from hyperdrive close to the planet (say, Low orbit) and perform a high-acceleration approach by either ion engines or (preferrably, due to the high acceleration possible close in to a planet) repulsors. Rather simple.
Why could the hull not plausibly protect from both? (Not disagreeing, but with SW materials science, I don't imagine that shields are the only concievable means of protection.)Connor MacLeod wrote:Some do. And TIEs need at least minimal radiation and/or particle shielding to protect the crewers if nothing else (Ref: Black Fleet Crisis trilogy)
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Perhaps him hearing about battles like the one in ROTS, makes Ackbar think twice before going at the Star Destroyers at point-blank range. He´s heard, as you said, how devastating that is, as we will see in the opening battle.Illuminatus Primus wrote: Of course I'm not suggesting that in 25,000 years of tech plateau, it never happened. We're not talking absolutes. The Battle of Coruscant will be one of the key battles of history and since apparently he got earfuls from Tarkin about tactics and strategy I would not be surprised if it came up. The point is obvious: such combat should be exceedingly rare, and to have it appear twice in the filmic medium is not conducive to that implication.
I´m guessing they would arrive right on top of the Separatist fleet before even a single shot could be fired. With the speeds used in the SW universe, it isn´t that implausible to believe that a fleet could come out of hyperspace right on top of another and begin pounding them.Believe it or not, I can imagine how ships can fly on their own power into low orbit. The question is why they would do this, and again, why didn't they get torn up by standard range ahead of time. Both of which are dealt with internally with Endor.
And several shots in the trailer show Venators crammed together in a tight space, yet the battlefield seems to stretch far beyond human eyesight.
Then there´s the whole "get close and fire more accuratley, than stay far away and risk hitting the surface of Coruscant..."
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No, because ROTJ novelisation contains gems like "we don't know anything about the tactics of such an engagement" and "we're inventing a new kind of combat, they'll think we know more."VT-16 wrote:Perhaps him hearing about battles like the one in ROTS, makes Ackbar think twice before going at the Star Destroyers at point-blank range. He´s heard, as you said, how devastating that is, as we will see in the opening battle.
If the margin of error was that tight and the speeds just too enormous to deal with, then some would smash into the planet or into other ships. Nope, that makes no sense.VT-16 wrote:I´m guessing they would arrive right on top of the Separatist fleet before even a single shot could be fired. With the speeds used in the SW universe, it isn´t that implausible to believe that a fleet could come out of hyperspace right on top of another and begin pounding them.
Which makes it worse; they obviously have room to spread out but their paired off at hundred-meter ranges, which are dumb.VT-16 wrote:And several shots in the trailer show Venators crammed together in a tight space, yet the battlefield seems to stretch far beyond human eyesight.
Coruscant has a shield last time I checked, and since when it is impossible to approach the fleet from decent range on a tangental vector relative to the planet's surface?VT-16 wrote:Then there´s the whole "get close and fire more accuratley, than stay far away and risk hitting the surface of Coruscant..."
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It could only be a flyby. I don't have any info on exactly how the battle unfolds. If the Republic does a flyby or a large scale straffe of the Sepertists or if the Sepertists attempt to break the lines of the Republic forces, then your not dealing with the same kind of long term engagment that they did in ROTJ.
Like I said, I don't have the 411 on how the battle of Coruscant unfolds so it might be the same thing as RotJ, but just because they have a couple of good PR shots of ships being close together doesn't really mean its capships at 20 paces.
Like I said, I don't have the 411 on how the battle of Coruscant unfolds so it might be the same thing as RotJ, but just because they have a couple of good PR shots of ships being close together doesn't really mean its capships at 20 paces.
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We can hope at least. I'm still not going to count on that to solve any potential problems, however.Vympel wrote:Not really- one of the post-production guys said that the atmosphere ends at 60 miles up, and that this takes place at "59 miles up"- it might as well be space. And for all we know, any indication as to where exactly the battle is might not make in into the canon at all (i.e. the novelization).Because there have been prior indications from other sources of the combat occuring in the atmosphere.
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So then why the hell are you complaining about it if its not a problem?Illuminatus Primus wrote: Of course I'm not suggesting that in 25,000 years of tech plateau, it never happened. We're not talking absolutes.
Yet Ackbar exhibits unfamiliarity or lack of knowledge about it, which suggests otherwise.The Battle of Coruscant will be one of the key battles of history and since apparently he got earfuls from Tarkin about tactics and strategy I would not be surprised if it came up.
Oh bull. Having it appear in ROTS will not in any way invalidate the canoical indications from ROTJ that "point blank" confrontations are rare in the least. We're talkign about battles that are seperated by several decades, the overthrow of a government, , and the knowledge (or lack thereof) of particular individuals. Only a complete idiot would believe otherwise.The point is obvious: such combat should be exceedingly rare, and to have it appear twice in the filmic medium is not conducive to that implication.
Not really. Its been suggested that the shortt engagement ranges may be directly impacted by the possible use or existence of projectile weapons on the Trade Federation side (as a surprise tactic) - close-up engagements would not only also be a further surprise (if they are indeed rare), but the close-range would also make point-defense interception more problematic. And there is still the "boarding" issue.And how do you think that changes that its silly from an SoD perspective to have hundred-meter broadside exchanges?
And once you really think about it, point blank confrontations are not neccesarily impractical, given judicious use of hyperdrives (such tactics have in fact been used before. Bakuran warships microjumped into the midst of an enemy fleet in "Showdown at Centerpoint", as an example.)
This has been discussed already previously. Not everyone believes that the SPHA-T is neccesarily equivalent to a capital ship weapon. And more to the point, what reason is there to believe a turbolaser is NOT going to interact with the atmosphere like a laser or particle beam would?If we haven't seen HTL blasts in the atmosphere, why should we be getting so excited yet? What about the SPHA-Ts carving up the Core Ships?
Uh right. I'm sure the Separatists and Republican ships will agree to cease hostilities just to tow wrecks out of the way.Obviously with the Invisible Hand, dealing with crashing ships is something which has already been grasped. Not to mention the EU is rife with examples of ships towing their defeated opponent to a stable orbit after slugging it out with them.
Or more precisely, the display of any sort of shield interactions.As for loose beams - depends on if there's a shield or not.
So then why did you ask a stupid question? Do I really need to repost the fact that you demanded to know how they accomplished such ranges to begin with?Believe it or not, I can imagine how ships can fly on their own power into low orbit.
Again, why are you asking stupid questions then if the issue has already been settled?The question is why they would do this, and again, why didn't they get torn up by standard range ahead of time. Both of which are dealt with internally with Endor.
Perhaps, but this would probably require at the very least repair if not replacement of the damage to the hull it would incur (as well as the cockpit window.) And there is issues of whether the hull neccesarily would protect against impacts at much higher velocities.Why could the hull not plausibly protect from both? (Not disagreeing, but with SW materials science, I don't imagine that shields are the only concievable means of protection.)
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The Republic fleet reason try get into boarding range, since they have to rescue Palpatine. Like it's said to use the hyperdrive to cover the distance, but that's risky at best so not common. (also the CIS is probaly under orders to not fight as effectly as they could.)
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Just a couple minor things as I'm watching through the trailer (and note: I have not read anything other than this thread, so if I say something obvious, it's because I just noticed it ).
It appears that there's a Trade Federation Battleship in the bottom right corner of the Venator/Separatist battle scene. Nothing really earth-shattering here, just an observation.
Does anyone else think the Wookie (in the scene with two Wookies) on the right looks like Chewbacca? He even has the exact same bandolier.
What the hell is the six-winged fighter right after the choking of Obi-Wan? It looks like a kit-bashed X-Wing with two engines and extra wings at ~ a 30 degree angle above and below the horizontal wings. (edit: Nevermind...it's the ARC 170. Found the concept art online. Reminds me of a WWII light bomber, with that rear-facing gun.)
On second look, the Fleas don't look mechanical to me. On first glance they did, but what I thought was mechanical now appears to be a biological carapace.
It appears that there's a Trade Federation Battleship in the bottom right corner of the Venator/Separatist battle scene. Nothing really earth-shattering here, just an observation.
Does anyone else think the Wookie (in the scene with two Wookies) on the right looks like Chewbacca? He even has the exact same bandolier.
What the hell is the six-winged fighter right after the choking of Obi-Wan? It looks like a kit-bashed X-Wing with two engines and extra wings at ~ a 30 degree angle above and below the horizontal wings. (edit: Nevermind...it's the ARC 170. Found the concept art online. Reminds me of a WWII light bomber, with that rear-facing gun.)
On second look, the Fleas don't look mechanical to me. On first glance they did, but what I thought was mechanical now appears to be a biological carapace.
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They are elsewhere in the battle footage as well. Painted with blue stripes and stuff. Probably fitted with more weapons as well, I reckon.The Dark wrote:It appears that there's a Trade Federation Battleship in the bottom right corner of the Venator/Separatist battle scene. Nothing really earth-shattering here, just an observation.
If, by fleas, you mean those things on the lava-planet at the beginning, then yes, they are droids. "Scurrier" droids with "Scurrier riders", uhm, riding them.On second look, the Fleas don't look mechanical to me. On first glance they did, but what I thought was mechanical now appears to be a biological carapace.