Footage of the trailer has leaked- [SPOILER] thoughts?

PSW: discuss Star Wars without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

Pcm979
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 4092
Joined: 2002-10-26 12:45am

Post by Pcm979 »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
VT-16 wrote:Nothing so far suggests this is optimal range of firing. The separatists just got unlucky and were caught trying to escape the planet.
And that explains how they would've plausibly gotten to such ranges before slaughtering each other how? :roll:
It that *is* the Invisible Hand, which is might not be, then Palpatine's being held prisoner on board, so the Venator's wouldn't shoot to kill.
User avatar
Praxis
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6012
Joined: 2002-12-22 04:02pm
Contact:

Post by Praxis »

Pcm979 wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
VT-16 wrote:Nothing so far suggests this is optimal range of firing. The separatists just got unlucky and were caught trying to escape the planet.
And that explains how they would've plausibly gotten to such ranges before slaughtering each other how? :roll:
It that *is* the Invisible Hand, which is might not be, then Palpatine's being held prisoner on board, so the Venator's wouldn't shoot to kill.
You know guys, that 'leaked script' might not be legit. I've seen SEVERAL so-called 'leaked scripts'. So don't believe everything. Someone might have put together a 'leaked script' based on insider info or Hyperspace info and made it sound legit since they knew of some scenes, for all we know. I keep hearing people making comments as if they know for sure how the movie is going to go.
Pcm979
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 4092
Joined: 2002-10-26 12:45am

Post by Pcm979 »

I didn't get that info from a leaked script. I'm a Hyperspace member and therefore waste my money in exchange for publicly-known snippets like the above. I suck.
Last edited by Pcm979 on 2004-11-07 12:56am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
VT-16
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4662
Joined: 2004-05-13 10:01am
Location: Norway

Post by VT-16 »

Praxis wrote:You know guys, that 'leaked script' might not be legit.
I´m not using any leaked script as source of info, only official sources and credible insiders. There is no leaked official script either.
I keep hearing people making comments as if they know for sure how the movie is going to go.
When you see insiders getting it right over and over again (Grievous, Mustafar, Utapau, just to name a few) you start to pay attention.

Now, talking about the trailer, I think the walkers in the Wookiee army-shot are three-legged! How does that work?
User avatar
Spanky The Dolphin
Mammy Two-Shoes
Posts: 30776
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)

Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Additionally, when you keep up with what's reported over at TF.N (I mean the definate official stuff, not the grain of salt rumours), you tend to know how things are generally supposed to go and what everything's called.
Image
I believe in a sign of Zeta.

[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]

"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12238
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Post by Lord Revan »

BTW Could the "Invisible Hand" be Geonosian Dreanaught mentioned in the novel "Shatterpoint"?
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
Spanky The Dolphin
Mammy Two-Shoes
Posts: 30776
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)

Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

VT-16 wrote:Now, talking about the trailer, I think the walkers in the Wookiee army-shot are three-legged! How does that work?
I'll be damned, but I think you're right.
Image
I believe in a sign of Zeta.

[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]

"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
User avatar
VT-16
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4662
Joined: 2004-05-13 10:01am
Location: Norway

Post by VT-16 »

Ok, we now have:

2, 3, 4, 6, 12 - legged walkers.

THREE LEGS!!! what teh fuck...?

The Destroyer Droids have three legs, so it´s not something new, but still, that looks like a really big vehicle (bigger than the Juggernauts in the same picture, I think). How does it work?

Keep imagining a poor dog with an amputed front leg, hopping along. XP
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12238
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Post by Lord Revan »

I have been wondering just how did that CIS fleet get to Corusant?
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
Rogue 9
Scrapping TIEs since 1997
Posts: 18683
Joined: 2003-11-12 01:10pm
Location: Classified
Contact:

Post by Rogue 9 »

Lord Revan wrote:I have been wondering just how did that CIS fleet get to Corusant?
Hyperdrive. :P
It's Rogue, not Rouge!

HAB | KotL | VRWC/ELC/CDA | TRotR | The Anti-Confederate | Sluggite | Gamer | Blogger | Staff Reporter | Student | Musician
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12238
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Post by Lord Revan »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:I have been wondering just how did that CIS fleet get to Corusant?
Hyperdrive. :P
No shit. What I mean arrive with Dooku or later.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
Dillon
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 1017
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:00am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Dillon »

Does anyone know who this guy is?

Image
User avatar
Grand Moff Yenchin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2730
Joined: 2003-02-07 12:49pm
Location: Surrounded by fundies who mock other fundies
Contact:

Post by Grand Moff Yenchin »

Tion Meddon, acted by Bruce Spence

There is a picture of him in the Art of Revenge
1st Plt. Comm. of the Warwolves
Member of Justice League
"People can't see Buddha so they say he doesn't have a body, since his body is formed of atoms, of course you can't see it. Saying he doesn't have a body is correct"- Li HongZhi
User avatar
Lord Pounder
Pretty Hate Machine
Posts: 9695
Joined: 2002-11-19 04:40pm
Location: Belfast, unfortunately
Contact:

Post by Lord Pounder »

observer_20000 wrote:Does anyone know who this guy is?

*snip*
Nope but i'd love to be a drinking buddy of his dentist.
RIP Yosemite Bear
Gone, Never Forgotten
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Unfortunate. Not only is it unrealistic but it does not pan well with ROTJ and esp. the novelisation.
Only if you take Ackbars words as being absolute truth, rather than as an indicator of just how rare engagements at "point blank range" are. Do you seriously think that Ackbar could have comprehensive knowledge of EVERY battle ever fought?
The clarity and lack of interaction would imply to me low-orbit. I didn't think they were atmospheric. Why do you think so?
Because there have been prior indications from other sources of the combat occuring in the atmosphere.

Besides which, aside from the issue of firing bolts in the atmosphere is the issue of ships crashing into the ground and weapons fire striking the ground as well.
Illuminatus Primus wrote: And that explains how they would've plausibly gotten to such ranges before slaughtering each other how? :roll:
Emerge from hyperdrive close to the planet (say, Low orbit) and perform a high-acceleration approach by either ion engines or (preferrably, due to the high acceleration possible close in to a planet) repulsors. Rather simple.

No, the TIEs don't even have life support or shields or hyperdrive.
Some do. And TIEs need at least minimal radiation and/or particle shielding to protect the crewers if nothing else (Ref: Black Fleet Crisis trilogy)
User avatar
Vympel
Spetsnaz
Spetsnaz
Posts: 29312
Joined: 2002-07-19 01:08am
Location: Sydney Australia

Post by Vympel »

Because there have been prior indications from other sources of the combat occuring in the atmosphere.
Not really- one of the post-production guys said that the atmosphere ends at 60 miles up, and that this takes place at "59 miles up"- it might as well be space. And for all we know, any indication as to where exactly the battle is might not make in into the canon at all (i.e. the novelization).
Like Legend of Galactic Heroes? Please contribute to http://gineipaedia.com/
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: Unfortunate. Not only is it unrealistic but it does not pan well with ROTJ and esp. the novelisation.
Only if you take Ackbars words as being absolute truth, rather than as an indicator of just how rare engagements at "point blank range" are. Do you seriously think that Ackbar could have comprehensive knowledge of EVERY battle ever fought?
Of course I'm not suggesting that in 25,000 years of tech plateau, it never happened. We're not talking absolutes. The Battle of Coruscant will be one of the key battles of history and since apparently he got earfuls from Tarkin about tactics and strategy I would not be surprised if it came up. The point is obvious: such combat should be exceedingly rare, and to have it appear twice in the filmic medium is not conducive to that implication.

And how do you think that changes that its silly from an SoD perspective to have hundred-meter broadside exchanges?
Connor MacLeod wrote:
The clarity and lack of interaction would imply to me low-orbit. I didn't think they were atmospheric. Why do you think so?
Because there have been prior indications from other sources of the combat occuring in the atmosphere.
If we haven't seen HTL blasts in the atmosphere, why should we be getting so excited yet? What about the SPHA-Ts carving up the Core Ships?
Connor MacLeod wrote:Besides which, aside from the issue of firing bolts in the atmosphere is the issue of ships crashing into the ground and weapons fire striking the ground as well.
Obviously with the Invisible Hand, dealing with crashing ships is something which has already been grasped. Not to mention the EU is rife with examples of ships towing their defeated opponent to a stable orbit after slugging it out with them.

As for loose beams - depends on if there's a shield or not.
Connor MacLeod wrote:Emerge from hyperdrive close to the planet (say, Low orbit) and perform a high-acceleration approach by either ion engines or (preferrably, due to the high acceleration possible close in to a planet) repulsors. Rather simple.
Believe it or not, I can imagine how ships can fly on their own power into low orbit. The question is why they would do this, and again, why didn't they get torn up by standard range ahead of time. Both of which are dealt with internally with Endor.
Connor MacLeod wrote:Some do. And TIEs need at least minimal radiation and/or particle shielding to protect the crewers if nothing else (Ref: Black Fleet Crisis trilogy)
Why could the hull not plausibly protect from both? (Not disagreeing, but with SW materials science, I don't imagine that shields are the only concievable means of protection.)
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
VT-16
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4662
Joined: 2004-05-13 10:01am
Location: Norway

Post by VT-16 »

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Of course I'm not suggesting that in 25,000 years of tech plateau, it never happened. We're not talking absolutes. The Battle of Coruscant will be one of the key battles of history and since apparently he got earfuls from Tarkin about tactics and strategy I would not be surprised if it came up. The point is obvious: such combat should be exceedingly rare, and to have it appear twice in the filmic medium is not conducive to that implication.
Perhaps him hearing about battles like the one in ROTS, makes Ackbar think twice before going at the Star Destroyers at point-blank range. He´s heard, as you said, how devastating that is, as we will see in the opening battle.
Believe it or not, I can imagine how ships can fly on their own power into low orbit. The question is why they would do this, and again, why didn't they get torn up by standard range ahead of time. Both of which are dealt with internally with Endor.
I´m guessing they would arrive right on top of the Separatist fleet before even a single shot could be fired. With the speeds used in the SW universe, it isn´t that implausible to believe that a fleet could come out of hyperspace right on top of another and begin pounding them.

And several shots in the trailer show Venators crammed together in a tight space, yet the battlefield seems to stretch far beyond human eyesight.

Then there´s the whole "get close and fire more accuratley, than stay far away and risk hitting the surface of Coruscant..."
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

VT-16 wrote:Perhaps him hearing about battles like the one in ROTS, makes Ackbar think twice before going at the Star Destroyers at point-blank range. He´s heard, as you said, how devastating that is, as we will see in the opening battle.
No, because ROTJ novelisation contains gems like "we don't know anything about the tactics of such an engagement" and "we're inventing a new kind of combat, they'll think we know more."
VT-16 wrote:I´m guessing they would arrive right on top of the Separatist fleet before even a single shot could be fired. With the speeds used in the SW universe, it isn´t that implausible to believe that a fleet could come out of hyperspace right on top of another and begin pounding them.
If the margin of error was that tight and the speeds just too enormous to deal with, then some would smash into the planet or into other ships. Nope, that makes no sense.
VT-16 wrote:And several shots in the trailer show Venators crammed together in a tight space, yet the battlefield seems to stretch far beyond human eyesight.
Which makes it worse; they obviously have room to spread out but their paired off at hundred-meter ranges, which are dumb.
VT-16 wrote:Then there´s the whole "get close and fire more accuratley, than stay far away and risk hitting the surface of Coruscant..."
Coruscant has a shield last time I checked, and since when it is impossible to approach the fleet from decent range on a tangental vector relative to the planet's surface?
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15769
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Post by Knife »

It could only be a flyby. I don't have any info on exactly how the battle unfolds. If the Republic does a flyby or a large scale straffe of the Sepertists or if the Sepertists attempt to break the lines of the Republic forces, then your not dealing with the same kind of long term engagment that they did in ROTJ.

Like I said, I don't have the 411 on how the battle of Coruscant unfolds so it might be the same thing as RotJ, but just because they have a couple of good PR shots of ships being close together doesn't really mean its capships at 20 paces.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Vympel wrote:
Because there have been prior indications from other sources of the combat occuring in the atmosphere.
Not really- one of the post-production guys said that the atmosphere ends at 60 miles up, and that this takes place at "59 miles up"- it might as well be space. And for all we know, any indication as to where exactly the battle is might not make in into the canon at all (i.e. the novelization).
We can hope at least. I'm still not going to count on that to solve any potential problems, however.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Of course I'm not suggesting that in 25,000 years of tech plateau, it never happened. We're not talking absolutes.
So then why the hell are you complaining about it if its not a problem?
The Battle of Coruscant will be one of the key battles of history and since apparently he got earfuls from Tarkin about tactics and strategy I would not be surprised if it came up.
Yet Ackbar exhibits unfamiliarity or lack of knowledge about it, which suggests otherwise.
The point is obvious: such combat should be exceedingly rare, and to have it appear twice in the filmic medium is not conducive to that implication.
Oh bull. Having it appear in ROTS will not in any way invalidate the canoical indications from ROTJ that "point blank" confrontations are rare in the least. We're talkign about battles that are seperated by several decades, the overthrow of a government, , and the knowledge (or lack thereof) of particular individuals. Only a complete idiot would believe otherwise.
And how do you think that changes that its silly from an SoD perspective to have hundred-meter broadside exchanges?
Not really. Its been suggested that the shortt engagement ranges may be directly impacted by the possible use or existence of projectile weapons on the Trade Federation side (as a surprise tactic) - close-up engagements would not only also be a further surprise (if they are indeed rare), but the close-range would also make point-defense interception more problematic. And there is still the "boarding" issue.

And once you really think about it, point blank confrontations are not neccesarily impractical, given judicious use of hyperdrives (such tactics have in fact been used before. Bakuran warships microjumped into the midst of an enemy fleet in "Showdown at Centerpoint", as an example.)
If we haven't seen HTL blasts in the atmosphere, why should we be getting so excited yet? What about the SPHA-Ts carving up the Core Ships?
This has been discussed already previously. Not everyone believes that the SPHA-T is neccesarily equivalent to a capital ship weapon. And more to the point, what reason is there to believe a turbolaser is NOT going to interact with the atmosphere like a laser or particle beam would?
Obviously with the Invisible Hand, dealing with crashing ships is something which has already been grasped. Not to mention the EU is rife with examples of ships towing their defeated opponent to a stable orbit after slugging it out with them.
Uh right. I'm sure the Separatists and Republican ships will agree to cease hostilities just to tow wrecks out of the way.
As for loose beams - depends on if there's a shield or not.
Or more precisely, the display of any sort of shield interactions.
Believe it or not, I can imagine how ships can fly on their own power into low orbit.
So then why did you ask a stupid question? Do I really need to repost the fact that you demanded to know how they accomplished such ranges to begin with?
The question is why they would do this, and again, why didn't they get torn up by standard range ahead of time. Both of which are dealt with internally with Endor.
Again, why are you asking stupid questions then if the issue has already been settled?

Why could the hull not plausibly protect from both? (Not disagreeing, but with SW materials science, I don't imagine that shields are the only concievable means of protection.)
Perhaps, but this would probably require at the very least repair if not replacement of the damage to the hull it would incur (as well as the cockpit window.) And there is issues of whether the hull neccesarily would protect against impacts at much higher velocities.
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12238
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Post by Lord Revan »

The Republic fleet reason try get into boarding range, since they have to rescue Palpatine. Like it's said to use the hyperdrive to cover the distance, but that's risky at best so not common. (also the CIS is probaly under orders to not fight as effectly as they could.)
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
The Dark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7378
Joined: 2002-10-31 10:28pm
Location: Promoting ornithological awareness

Post by The Dark »

Just a couple minor things as I'm watching through the trailer (and note: I have not read anything other than this thread, so if I say something obvious, it's because I just noticed it :wink: ).

It appears that there's a Trade Federation Battleship in the bottom right corner of the Venator/Separatist battle scene. Nothing really earth-shattering here, just an observation.

Does anyone else think the Wookie (in the scene with two Wookies) on the right looks like Chewbacca? He even has the exact same bandolier.

What the hell is the six-winged fighter right after the choking of Obi-Wan? It looks like a kit-bashed X-Wing with two engines and extra wings at ~ a 30 degree angle above and below the horizontal wings. (edit: Nevermind...it's the ARC 170. Found the concept art online. Reminds me of a WWII light bomber, with that rear-facing gun.)

On second look, the Fleas don't look mechanical to me. On first glance they did, but what I thought was mechanical now appears to be a biological carapace.
Stanley Hauerwas wrote:[W]hy is it that no one is angry at the inequality of income in this country? I mean, the inequality of income is unbelievable. Unbelievable. Why isn’t that ever an issue of politics? Because you don’t live in a democracy. You live in a plutocracy. Money rules.
BattleTech for SilCore
User avatar
VT-16
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4662
Joined: 2004-05-13 10:01am
Location: Norway

Post by VT-16 »

The Dark wrote:It appears that there's a Trade Federation Battleship in the bottom right corner of the Venator/Separatist battle scene. Nothing really earth-shattering here, just an observation.
They are elsewhere in the battle footage as well. Painted with blue stripes and stuff. Probably fitted with more weapons as well, I reckon.
On second look, the Fleas don't look mechanical to me. On first glance they did, but what I thought was mechanical now appears to be a biological carapace.
If, by fleas, you mean those things on the lava-planet at the beginning, then yes, they are droids. "Scurrier" droids with "Scurrier riders", uhm, riding them.
Post Reply