Software flaws detected in Ohio voting machines

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-11-05 06:44pm

As it so happens, there is an open-source voting project complete with machine-readable paper ballot.

In this area, the tabulating is left to tabulating machines -- your votes are recorded on a smart card and placed in a box. The box is sent to wherever they have the counting machines and that is it.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-11-05 08:05pm

TheDarkling wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:Isn't the Guardian one of those papers that will say anything to make a buck?

Kinda like the National Enquirer or Weekly World News?
No, the Guardian is primarily interested in grinding its ideological axe; if they just wanted to sell papers they would go the simple minded soft core porn route of The Sun.

Why not do both?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-11-05 08:09pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Again, what the fuck is the point of electonic voting, punch card voting, lever voting, etc? What is wrong with put X or fill in circle or whatever beside candidates name.

Works for me. And I would presume that braille ballots are available for the blind in countries which do rely upon the old-fashioned yet strangely reliable paper form.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-11-05 08:12pm

If paper were a new invention instead of an old one, people would be lauding its reliability and flexibility compared to electronic devices. Think about it: a PDA that can survive electromagnetic pulse and physical deformation, which requires no power, which can be taken anywhere, whose data can be at least partially recovered even in the event of serious physical damage, and which costs almost nothing: it's fantastic!

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-11-05 08:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:If paper were a new invention instead of an old one, people would be lauding its reliability and flexibility compared to electronic devices. Think about it: a PDA that can survive electromagnetic pulse and physical deformation, which requires no power, which can be taken anywhere, whose data can be at least partially recovered even in the event of serious physical damage, and which costs almost nothing: it's fantastic!

But it's so passé. We should all have PADD like devices in the future (saw it on some popular documentary show on TV) that manage everything and we won't have any paper seen in offices. No, just loads and loads of PDAs. It'll be "sorry, hon, I've got a load of silicon-work to do tonight".

Office work... of the FUTURE!

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-11-05 08:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:If paper were a new invention instead of an old one, people would be lauding its reliability and flexibility compared to electronic devices. Think about it: a PDA that can survive electromagnetic pulse and physical deformation, which requires no power, which can be taken anywhere, whose data can be at least partially recovered even in the event of serious physical damage, and which costs almost nothing: it's fantastic!

Fucking Luddite.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2004-11-06 05:05pm

"The solution that uses the least technology is sometimes the best"

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-06 06:07pm

Whatt a bunch of crackpot bullshit. Maryland used Diebold touch screen
voting and still went democrat.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-11-06 06:40pm

MKSheppard wrote:Whatt a bunch of crackpot bullshit. Maryland used Diebold touch screen voting and still went democrat.

Ah, so you of course have some sort of proof that a single county of less than 700 people did not, in fact, vote for Bush almost 4,000 times?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-11-06 06:53pm

Shep, lets do a little math, I know you're quite slow...but when less than 700 people vote and one person apparently gets over 3000 votes...that means there is a problem.

700 - 3000 = -2300 = A big fucking problem.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-06 07:11pm

Durandal wrote:Ah, so you of course have some sort of proof that a single county of less than 700 people did not, in fact, vote for Bush almost 4,000 times?

Meanwhile, Maryland has used Diebold machines in two elections so far,
and has yet to register any substantive problems with them; It's not
my problem that other parts of the country, such as San Francisco
cannot properly implement and train their workers in the use of voting
machines like Maryland does.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-11-06 07:32pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Durandal wrote:Ah, so you of course have some sort of proof that a single county of less than 700 people did not, in fact, vote for Bush almost 4,000 times?
Meanwhile, Maryland has used Diebold machines in two elections so far, and has yet to register any substantive problems with them; It's not my problem that other parts of the country, such as San Francisco cannot properly implement and train their workers in the use of voting machines like Maryland does.

Do you have anything aside from your usual bullshit to contribute here? Let me explain something.

DIEBOLD'S MACHINES GAVE BUSH 3,000 EXTRA VOTES IN OHIO.

This is not a matter of training, and I don't give a shit who Maryland went to or what problems Maryland has not had. We're talking about Ohio. This is an obvious flaw in Diebold's counting software, and it's impossible for anyone but Diebold to fix because the government has not mandated that their software be open-sourced and subject to public scrutiny. This is a big problem.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-11-06 07:37pm

Durandal wrote:
DIEBOLD'S MACHINES GAVE BUSH 3,000 EXTRA VOTES IN OHIO.

This is not a matter of training, and I don't give a shit who Maryland went to or what problems Maryland has not had. We're talking about Ohio. This is an obvious flaw in Diebold's counting software, and it's impossible for anyone but Diebold to fix because the government has not mandated that their software be open-sourced and subject to public scrutiny. This is a big problem.

Durandal, don't you think this might have shown up somewhere else? And if it were widespread and in favor of only bush, than wouldn't this flaw have caused Bush to win by 500 million votes? And if this was anything other than a random fuckup, don't you think that the evil vote padders would have chosen to plunk their 3000 votes in a county that had more than 700 people?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-06 07:39pm

Durandal wrote:This is a big problem.

Yet why has it only shown up in Ohio, which we all know is
a state full of god-fearin' bible thumping wife beaters who
watch NASCAR?

It's not our fault they can't read the damn instructions
while watching the 700 club.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-11-06 07:53pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:Durandal, don't you think this might have shown up somewhere else? And if it were widespread and in favor of only bush, than wouldn't this flaw have caused Bush to win by 500 million votes? And if this was anything other than a random fuckup, don't you think that the evil vote padders would have chosen to plunk their 3000 votes in a county that had more than 700 people?

Hey, asshole, when did I ever suggest that there was voter fraud going on? I said that Diebold's machines have obvious problems under certain conditions which is simply fact. But by all means, keep poisoning the well by accusing me of being just some sore-loser, bed-wetting Leftie.

What fucking part of this don't you get? This is voting software for federal elections. If a flaw shows up somewhere that gives somebody 3,000 extra votes, it needs to be looked into. Period. You want to know why this flaw isn't widespread? I can't tell you. That's why we need to investigate it. If we investigate it, it could point us to other places where such flaws have occurred but gone unnoticed for whatever reason. Is this registering yet? Are you totally unfamiliar with mission-critical software development and bug tracking?

MKSheppard wrote:Yet why has it only shown up in Ohio, which we all know is a state full of god-fearin' bible thumping wife beaters who watch NASCAR?

I don't know, shit-for-brains; that's why it needs to be looked into. I'm sick of you and your right-wing ass-buddies immediately accusing me of harboring some sort of Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Theory about Diebold's voting machines granting Bush extra votes on purpose when I have the audacity to point out that an obvious flaw in the software demands immediate investigation. So kiss my fucking ass.

It's not our fault they can't read the damn instructions while watching the 700 club.

Oh, so you know what the nature of this problem is? It's user-related? Oh sorry, no you don't. You're just being a fucking prick, as usual. Ever hear of a little thing called "input validation"? It's taught to first-year computer science students because programmers must always assume that the user will not follow directions and that the user must be led by the hand to get where he needs to go.

But what do I know? I'm just a fag-loving, uppity Left-winger. You fucking make me sick.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-06 07:58pm

Durandal wrote:Hey, asshole, when did I ever suggest that there was voter fraud going on? I said that Diebold's machines have obvious problems under certain conditions which is simply fact. But by all means, keep poisoning the well by accusing me of being just some sore-loser, bed-wetting Leftie.

Yet Maryland has never had any serious problems with Diebold
machines, and we have had two elections with them. Obviously,
Maryland knows how to properly implement, train, and deploy
a computerised voting system unlike those god-fearin' people in
Ohio.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-11-06 08:01pm

MKSheppard wrote: Yet Maryland has never had any serious problems with Diebold
machines, and we have had two elections with them. Obviously,
Maryland knows how to properly implement, train, and deploy
a computerised voting system unlike those god-fearin' people in
Ohio.

Shep : Master of the useless anecdotal evidence.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-06 08:03pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:Shep : Master of the useless anecdotal evidence.

It's not my fault I'm pointing out the correlation of error free diebold
voting with the fundamentalism level in that state.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-11-06 08:15pm

Obviously, it's not error free. Because believe it or not, someone found an error, you dumb, detestable fuck. This has nothing to do with fundamentalism; it has to do with poor programming and unreliable, proprietary voting machines. Sorry, but a black box isn't good enough for my ballot.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-06 08:17pm

Durandal wrote:Obviously, it's not error free. Because believe it or not, someone found an error, you dumb, detestable fuck. This has nothing to do with fundamentalism; it has to do with poor programming and unreliable, proprietary voting machines. Sorry, but a black box isn't good enough for my ballot.

Yet it is error free in Maryland, while problems are found in Ohio, which we
all know is full of Bible Thumpin, Fag Hating, God Fearin Men of God (TM).

Obviously some intelligence is required to set up Diebold machines correctly.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-11-06 08:21pm

MKSheppard wrote:*snip*

Do you know the difference between no known errors and no actual errors?

As the system has been shown to have errors, the fact that no one in your wonderful neck of the woods was bright enough to notice any doesnt mean there werent any...there might not have been any errors, or there might have been errors that have not been spotted...this is why as Durandal said it needs investigated.

*prepares the autocue for another round of anecdotal irrellavences from The Shep*

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-11-06 08:27pm

No problems in Maryland?

Look! Shep must think California is a bunch of redneck fundies!

California's voting systems panel considers Diebold to be engaged in criminal practices

Florida, California, Georgia, and MARYLAND had problems with Diebold machines in March

CEO of Diebold promises to help Ohio "deliver its electoral votes to the president"

Any question as to why Diebold is not considered reliable by objective observers?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-11-06 08:36pm

MKSheppard wrote:Yet it is error free in Maryland, while problems are found in Ohio, which we all know is full of Bible Thumpin, Fag Hating, God Fearin Men of God (TM).

Obviously some intelligence is required to set up Diebold machines correctly.

Keep it up, you fucking shit-bag. I have no problems with deleting any further trolling, irrelevant posts of yours.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-11-07 12:47am

The Dark wrote:No problems in Maryland?

Look! Shep must think California is a bunch of redneck fundies!

California's voting systems panel considers Diebold to be engaged in criminal practices

Florida, California, Georgia, and MARYLAND had problems with Diebold machines in March

CEO of Diebold promises to help Ohio "deliver its electoral votes to the president"

Any question as to why Diebold is not considered reliable by objective observers?

So, I must again confront the point: At what point does suspecting foul play turn from tin foil hattery and wishful thinking turn into simple acknowledgement of a pattern of abuse?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-11-07 12:52am

SirNitram wrote:So, I must again confront the point: At what point does suspecting foul play turn from tin foil hattery and wishful thinking turn into simple acknowledgement of a pattern of abuse?

When you can actually show that the problems with voting and tallying actually changed the outcome of an election.