He's dead, really, we're sure now...Really

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-11-11 07:27am

Howz about Crackpot posts specific accusations of corruption, murder, and blocking peace, and then BoredShirtless refutes them or at least tries to? You know, like a proper debate, instead of "You KNOW what I'm talking about! Oh no I don't!"

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 07:29am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote: I don't care what you think about Israel, I think it's very clear what the hell I'm talking about, and your attempts to sidetrack our discussion isn't going to work.
discussion? what discussion? All i saw was BoredShirtless Automated Response #4 TM : Evil Yankee Propaganda.

Wow, crackpot all defensive, irrelevent and sidetracked after reading something negative about his government? What a fucking shock!

The speed in which you lose focus in an argument as soon as a negative about your government is brought up, is truly fucking amazing. No wonder you defended the war.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 07:30am

HemlockGrey wrote:Howz about Crackpot posts specific accusations of corruption, murder, and blocking peace, and then BoredShirtless refutes them or at least tries to? You know, like a proper debate, instead of "You KNOW what I'm talking about! Oh no I don't!"

We could do that. Or, we could go back to the beginning of our debate, and wait for crackpot to either retract or back up his claim that Arafat devoted his time to killing and preventing peace.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-11 07:56am

BoredShirtless wrote:
Justify this rabid hate. World leaders are expressing their condolances for the man; why don't you put a sock in it.

Why don't you justify why you think he is worthy of respect and condolences? World leaders are obligated to offer such things. It's well documented that the man was a terrorist who planned and executed schemes to kill innocents by the hundreds. He even siphoned of money intended for the Palestinian Authority and sent it to his own accounts. He got rich off the trust his own people put in him. And he blocked every attempt for peace since the Oslo Accords.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-11-11 08:08am

Although there's no doubt he siphoned money, you have to wonder what the hell he did with it, considering his spartan existance in Ramallah.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 08:14am

Cpl Kendall wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:
Justify this rabid hate. World leaders are expressing their condolances for the man; why don't you put a sock in it.
Why don't you justify why you think he is worthy of respect and condolences?

I don't think he's worthy of all the vampire bullshit Stormbringer was hitting us with.

World leaders are obligated to offer such things. It's well documented that the man was a terrorist who planned and executed schemes to kill innocents by the hundreds.

Substituting "Arafat" with "Osama Bin Laden" completely annihilates your argument, try again.

He even siphoned of money intended for the Palestinian Authority and sent it to his own accounts. He got rich off the trust his own people put in him.

Which is bad, and something I never denied or accepted.

And he blocked every attempt for peace since the Oslo Accords.

Prove it.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 08:15am

HemlockGrey wrote:Although there's no doubt he siphoned money, you have to wonder what the hell he did with it, considering his spartan existance in Ramallah.

For his wife and daughter probably.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 08:19am

World leaders are obligated to offer such things. It's well documented that the man was a terrorist who planned and executed schemes to kill innocents by the hundreds.
Substituting "Arafat" with "Osama Bin Laden" completely annihilates your argument, try again.

That isn't very clear. What I meant was, claiming world leaders are obligated to offer condolances to what you try to argue is a terrorist, is comdey gold.

And I'd like to see some copies of this "well documented" planning and execution of terrorist plots to kill hundreds of people.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-11-11 08:23am

Yasser Arafat wrote:"As martyrs by the millions,
we will march into Jerusalem"

how does one become a martyr? Oh yes, by killing yourself and taking a busload of Israeli schoolchildren with you.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 08:25am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Yasser Arafat wrote:"As martyrs by the millions,
we will march into Jerusalem"
how does one become a martyr? Oh yes, by killing yourself and taking a busload of Israeli schoolchildren with you.

What's the context, crackers?

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-11-11 09:54am

How about when in 1970 Arafat led the PLO to war... Against Jordon.

Onwar

It's a long article but I'll quote a small part, I suggest that those interested read the whole thing.

During a bitterly fought ten-day civil war, primarily between the PLA and Jordan Arab Army, Syria sent about 200 tanks to aid the fedayeen. On September 17, however, Iraq began a rapid withdrawal of its 12,000-man force stationed near Az Zarqa. The United States Navy dispatched the Sixth Fleet to the eastern Mediterranean, and Israel undertook "precautionary military deployments" to aid Hussein, if necessary, against the guerrilla forces. Under attack from the Jordanian army and in response to outside pressures, the Syrian forces began to withdraw from Jordan on September 24, having lost more than half their armor in fighting with the Jordanians. The fedayeen found themselves on the defensive throughout Jordan and agreed on September 25 to a cease-fire. At the urging of the Arab heads of state, Hussein and Arafat signed the cease-fire agreement in Cairo on September 27. The agreement called for rapid withdrawal of the guerrilla forces from Jordanian cities and towns to positions "appropriate" for continuing the battle with Israel and for the release of prisoners by both sides. A supreme supervisory committee was to implement the provisions of the agreement. On September 26, Hussein appointed a new cabinet; however, army officers continued to head the key defense and interior ministries.

On October 13, Hussein and Arafat signed a further agreement in Amman, under which the fedayeen were to recognize Jordanian sovereignty and the king's authority, to withdraw their armed forces from towns and villages, and to refrain from carrying arms outside their camps. In return the government agreed to grant amnesty to the fedayeen for incidents that had occurred during the civil war.

The civil war caused great material destruction in Jordan, and the number of fighters killed on all sides was estimated as high as 3,500. In spite of the September and October agreements, fighting continued, particularly in Amman, Irbid, and Jarash, where guerrilla forces had their main bases.

Or his kidnapping and murder of 2 American diplomats in 1973?

Middleeast

The United States has enough evidence to indict him for the kidnapping and brutal murder of two American diplomats. The United States knows his exact location. The United States can arrest him and bring him to justice whenever it chooses.

His name is Muhammad Abd ar-Rauf al-Qudwah al-Husayni, better known as Yasser Arafat.

In March 1973, Palestinian terrorist seized the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, during a diplomatic reception. U.S. Ambassador Cleo Noel and Charge d' Affairs C. Curtis Moore were among those taken hostage.

The terrorist who identified themselves as members of Black September demanded the release of Sirhan Sirhan, the murderer of Robert Kennedy. When President Nixon refused this demand, the American diplomats were taken to the embassy basement where they were brutally tortured and killed.

The National Security Agency intercepted direct communications between Yasser Arafat and his operatives in the Khartoum office of al-Fatah that indicate Arafat had both planned the attack and ordered the executions.

While Arafat publicly denied any complicity in the murders, he discussed them during a private dinner with Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu in May 1973. The dinner was also attended by General Ion Mihai Pacepa, who later defected to the U.S.

Pacepa later wrote that "Arafat excitedly bragged about his Khartoum operation" in an article published in the Wall Street Journal.

American Administrations have been reluctant to pursue murder charges against Arafat due to political considerations related to the Cold War and the Middle East.

On that one you can also check
here

Has for Arafat blocking peace well there is his walking away from the Camp David Peace Accords, when Clinton and Barak offered him a Palestinian state in parts (98%) of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip with East Jerusalem as its capital, a return of a limited number of refugees and a compensation for the rest. However he decided that wasn't enough and withdrew under critism from a member of his own team amd Cabinet Nabil Amr. In fact Arafat did not even give a counter offer, he launched the second Intifada, using the excuse that Sharon walked around the Temple Mount (despite the fact the Sharon, for once asked permission to walk on muslim land and was granted it).

Wikipedia

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 10:13am

Who Murdered the Oslo Accords?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-11-11 10:17am

BoredShirtless is a Larouchite!

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 10:19am

What? What's a Larouchite?

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 10:21am

Who Murdered the Oslo Accords?

Better?

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-11-11 10:23am

someone who subscribes to the lunatic rantings of Lyndon Larouche. A tin foil hat wearing nutcase who has been perpetually running for president for the past 40 years. Your link is from his website.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-11-11 10:25am

BoredShirtless wrote:Who Murdered the Oslo Accords?

Better?

no, it's the same article by the same author, just posted on a different website. Are you even reading what you link to?

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-11-11 10:26am

Is the article wrong? It refers to events and uses figures which are either right or wrong.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-11-11 10:32am

BoredShirtless wrote:Is the article wrong? It refers to events and uses figures which are either right or wrong.

the article claims that the Oslo Accords failed because Henry Kissenger and the World Bank conspired to undermine them, but really doesn't offer anything to support the claim except flowery hyperbole.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-11 10:42am

You forgot to include the WORLD WIDE TRAIN NETWORK FOR PEACE AND ECONOMIC GROWTH!

Really Crackpot, you are slipping.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-11-11 10:42am

i suspect that the article you linked to has more to do with Lyndon Larouche's longstanding fued with Henry Kissenger (he went so far as to once accuse of of him of sleeping with little boys) than it does anything else. This author is just anothor one of Larouche's sycophants.

J · Post by J » 2004-11-11 10:45am

I look forward to the funeral and putting it all behind.

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » 2004-11-11 10:46am

A great innovator in the use of the murder of civilians as a negotiating strategy meets his end. Watch me weep.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-11-11 10:50am

Presidents from Carter to Bush II all point to Arafat as the obstacle to peace. Clinton (who was obsessed with creating a legacy by having a peace between Israelis and Palestinians) blamed Arafat for walking away from what he described as the best deal any Palestinian leader was going to get. He suspecetd that Arafat did not want peace for the same reason that Castro does not want the embargo to end - it gives him a reason for all the misery and bullshit going on in his country. He can point to the Israelis and their policies as the reason why they live in squallor. But once there's a peace he has to start building a real economy, bridges and roads.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-11-11 11:51am

The Boston Globe's take

sums the man up nicely.