Cpl Kendall wrote:That is what the USA should do. Doesn't the USA have a treaty that obligates them to defend Tawain? Even if they don't,
They don't. The Taiwan Relations act ensures subsequent American governments will support Taiwan in its self defence, but lives a lot of leeway in the conditions for coming to the Taiwanese's aid in the event of an attack (namely, they don't state just under what conditions they will come to their defence).
seeing as they have been claiming to be the defenders of democracy lately, they better help them out when the shit hits the fan.Besides what does the PRC have that makes them so special? Why shouldn't the US oppose their unsubstantiated aggression towards Tawain?
Because they recognise China as China. One China policy. Now, rightly or wrongly the PRC claims Taiwan as its territory.
China was a greater ally in the CW when it came to curbing Soviet influence in the region. Now that the CW is over, tensions are somewhat nebulous, as are relations. But supporting Taiwan would be a slap in the face for China, and really why should they do so? As I said, China has shown the capacity for shelving the issue after a fashion. So long as it's face isn't lost, and Taiwan doesn't get any ideas, nothing will happen. One hopes, at any rate.
So the US can leave Tawain hanging in the breeze. The Tawainese better stock up on US weapons then. Are they still buying Aegis ships from the USA?
I hope so. I will say that there is no love of Communist China amoung the average US citizen and if my government didn't intervene, it would be facing massive cival problems at home, has the leftist free Tibet crowd and rightist anti-commie crowd formed a dark alliance.
I should add, Taiwan already enjoys a de facto State status, even if it isn't formal. China may not be happy about it, but it knows it can't do anything seriously aggressive, or they lose support in the international community. This is the status quo. Whether it will last, who knows? But China may not be the one to instigate a possible future conflict. In their view, a Taiwan who declares independence is an aggressive action against them - remember, they consider Taiwan a rebellious province - outright declarations invite a smackdown.
frigidmagi wrote:
I hope so. I will say that there is no love of Communist China amoung the average US citizen and if my government didn't intervene, it would be facing massive cival problems at home, has the leftist free Tibet crowd and rightist anti-commie crowd formed a dark alliance.
If they haven't formed an alliance yet, than I'm sure they would upon Chinese actions against Tawain. Hell I'd be protesting for Canada to help Tawain, just out of principle. Our help wouldn't be much but I bet the Tawainese would appreiciate it.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Stofsk wrote:I should add, Taiwan already enjoys a de facto State status, even if it isn't formal. China may not be happy about it, but it knows it can't do anything seriously aggressive, or they lose support in the international community. This is the status quo. Whether it will last, who knows? But China may not be the one to instigate a possible future conflict. In their view, a Taiwan who declares independence is an aggressive action against them - remember, they consider Taiwan a rebellious province - outright declarations invite a smackdown.
As far as I know there haven't been any rumblings about independance from Tawain. They seem content to leave things as they are.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
As far as I know there haven't been any rumblings about independance from Tawain. They seem content to leave things as they are.
The average Taiwan citizen would love to declare indepentence, however they know that they can't. Has for slapping the ChiComs, I feel little regard for their tender feelings, their alliance in the CW was a manner of common interest. They used us to maintain indepentence from the USSR and keep some freedom of action.
Cpl Kendall wrote:As far as I know there haven't been any rumblings about independance from Tawain. They seem content to leave things as they are.
There was something in '99, with the pro-independence President of Taiwan making some indications that Taiwan should be independent (this was after the USN deployed two CVN BGs to the straits, to call China's bluff). Clinton came out and publicly stated his support for the 'One China' policy. That shut Taiwanese talk for independence up pretty quick.
Bush in 2001 made a "We will do whatever it takes" statement in regards to defending Taiwan from China, and this scared the fuck out of his advisors. To my understanding, he or White House officials retracted the statement 30 mins later and said "oh no, he didn't mean he'd do whatever it takes (ie bomb the fuck out of the PRC), he mean - *snip rhetorical garbage*" One China is a policy adopted by both sides of the political fence, for decades. It isn't going to change in the future. I should point out that anti-PRC sentiment was at an all time high during the missile crisis, and this didn't stop Clinton from saying he supports One China.
frigidmagi wrote:
The average Taiwan citizen would love to declare indepentence, however they know that they can't. Has for slapping the ChiComs, I feel little regard for their tender feelings, their alliance in the CW was a manner of common interest. They used us to maintain indepentence from the USSR and keep some freedom of action.
We are in agreement then.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
One China is a nice little fiction, but when the PRC comes charging over the border (and barring some decisive shift in policy, government, or popular opinion, I have no doubt that they eventually will) I hope whoever the President is won't hesitate to "supplement" Taiwanese defenses.
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
frigidmagi wrote:their alliance in the CW was a manner of common interest.
All alliances are matters of common interest. The PRC is no different from the ROC in that regards.
So can I ask: who here would support bitch slapping the PRC should it happen to shoot at Taiwan? Would you people support a war with them? I'm curious, since that is what some people seem to be saying.
who here would support bitch slapping the PRC should it happen to shoot at Taiwan? Would you people support a war with them?
I would. I'd even rejoin to fight. While I can't speak for the own populace, the regilist right most likey would has Communist=Bad for them. Elements of the left would (Free Tibet crowd for example). The conservatives would see it has the last act of the CW most likey and go for it.
I imagation that counter attacking the PRC would have a good heathly majority support.
Stofsk wrote:
So can I ask: who here would support bitch slapping the PRC should it happen to shoot at Taiwan? Would you people support a war with them? I'm curious, since that is what some people seem to be saying.
If Canada got invovled, I'd be pounding the recruiting centers door down to get back in, even with my disabitilty I can still be useful.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
I'm tired of Maypole-dancing around the schoolyard asshole. Maybe it's not the most politically-mature view, but in this case I say stuff it. China's smarmy expansionism and history revision pisses me off to no end, among many other things, and I'd be all for watching them get flattened. No, not turned into a parking lot, I'm not prepared to advocate killing something like 15+ percent of the human race.
Chronological Incontinence: Time warps around the poster. The thread topic winks out of existence and reappears in 1d10 posts.
Out of Context Theatre, this week starring Darth Nostril.
-'If you really want to fuck with these idiots tell them that there is a vaccine for chemtrails.'
There are still a high number of people in Taiwan which might not support independence. The latest poll by the Taiwan Think Tank showed that 61% people were willing to vote for the sovereign rights over Taiwan. If considering the "Taiwan = ROC", only 21.3% disagree, which may or may not reduce the 61% figure.
Extreme independence people want Taiwan to be just that, Taiwan. They claim that the Republic of China, which was defeated by the commies, has no rights over Taiwan. So they're finding any opportunity to remove the 'Republic of China' anywhere.
These people are the ones that think Taiwan should immediately declare independence. However, they heavily rely on international interference to keep the independency, which is why in Taiwan there are people who although support independence, hesitate on taking it to action.
Grateful to see you guys willing to fight.
And I'd definitely answer to my juniors in the Mobilization Office.
1st Plt. Comm. of the Warwolves Member of Justice League "People can't see Buddha so they say he doesn't have a body, since his body is formed of atoms, of course you can't see it. Saying he doesn't have a body is correct"- Li HongZhi
Stofsk wrote:So can I ask: who here would support bitch slapping the PRC should it happen to shoot at Taiwan? Would you people support a war with them? I'm curious, since that is what some people seem to be saying.
I'd support the use of the big red button, and if that's not happening, myself & every able-bodied member of my family will be heading straight for the recruitment office.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
aerius wrote:
I'd support the use of the big red button, and if that's not happening, myself & every able-bodied member of my family will be heading straight for the recruitment office.
Just a warning for you aerius, military chicks are ugly. Unless their medics, so the lack of eye candy may send you over the edge.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
who here would support bitch slapping the PRC should it happen to shoot at Taiwan? Would you people support a war with them?
I would. I'd even rejoin to fight. While I can't speak for the own populace, the regilist right most likey would has Communist=Bad for them. Elements of the left would (Free Tibet crowd for example). The conservatives would see it has the last act of the CW most likey and go for it.
I imagation that counter attacking the PRC would have a good heathly majority support.
The word is "as", not "has". This inaccuracy makes your posts rather difficult to read. Please correct it in the future.
Cpl Kendall wrote:Just a warning for you aerius, military chicks are ugly. Unless their medics, so the lack of eye candy may send you over the edge.
Although I was born in Canada, my parents and the rest of my family's Taiwanese, and most of my relatives are still living in Taiwan. Let's just say I have more than enough reasons to go kill a few Chicoms, or better yet, push the nukey nukey button.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
aerius wrote:
Although I was born in Canada, my parents and the rest of my family's Taiwanese, and most of my relatives are still living in Taiwan. Let's just say I have more than enough reasons to go kill a few Chicoms, or better yet, push the nukey nukey button.
Sounds like a good reason to me. We'll need all the help we can get if war came to pass with China.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Cpl Kendall wrote:
So the US can leave Tawain hanging in the breeze. The Tawainese better stock up on US weapons then. Are they still buying Aegis ships from the USA?
Still? Such a deal was never approved by either the US or Taiwan's goverment; it simply never has existed and probably never will. Buying four Burkes would cost half of an entire years defence budget and another 200 million or so a year to operate them. And the ships simply don't make sense for Taiwan's defence needs, they would be much better off with more land based missiles and fighters.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
