Clonetrooper vs. Battledroid comparison

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-12 10:33am

In one of the Clone wars novels I have ("The Cestus Deception", Shatterpoint" and both "Medstar" novels) there was a comparison of Clonetrooper and Batttledroid, It said that in one-on-one Clonetroopers and B1 Battledroid are equal and a B2 is bit a better then typical Clonetrooper. It says that the advantance the Clonetrooper have is that they work better as groups then Battledroids.

(I can't remember in which book that was, so can't provide a quote now.)

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-12 10:36am

Well that's certainly been proved by the Republic victory at Geonosis. So what exactly are you after then?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-12 10:48am

Does it say anything about the fine-tuning abilities of the Jedi vs. the Droid Control Ships?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-12 10:53am

Kurgan wrote:Does it say anything about the fine-tuning abilities of the Jedi vs. the Droid Control Ships?

It says nothing about the DCSs

Well that's certainly been proved by the Republic victory at Geonosis. So what exactly are you after then?

My point was, that you can't say that Clonetrooper is any better in 1on1 situation then B1.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-11-12 10:54am

To quote Han Solo: "Good against remotes, that's one thing; good against the living, that's something else."

There's obviously a fair amount of contempt for droids as combatants in Star Wars, and this prejudice may result from their performance in the Clone Wars.

The stated advantage of a clone over a droid is that clones are capable of "creative thinking", while droids presumably are not. From this description, we might conclude that if you put a unit of clones against a unit of droids with equilalent numbers and armament, the clones will develop and execute a better battle plan and react better to unexpected developments during the battle.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-12 11:34am

Lord Revan wrote:My point was, that you can't say that Clonetrooper is any better in 1on1 situation then B1.

Yes you can. Remember "clones can think creatively".

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-12 11:51am

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:My point was, that you can't say that Clonetrooper is any better in 1on1 situation then B1.
Yes you can. Remember "clones can think creatively".

Droids have better reaction times then any humans creative thinking is not gonna help the clone in 1on1 situation, but group fighting can develop new tactics to fit the situation and and only react to those (they lack the ability to make new tactics (they can only use their preprogramed tactics) unless there's an organic commander (why do you think the CIS uses Grevious instead an cheap full droid general (like OOM-9)

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-11-12 02:53pm

From what ive gathered after reading both medstar novels and Republic Commando: Hard Contact. Battle droids even the stronger new types with the twin blasters on their wrists, are still not much more than automatons and unless they are being guided by a competant humanoid commander they are not all that great when left on their own.

Droids have better reaction times then any humans creative thinking is not gonna help the clone in 1on1 situation,

What evidence is their to show that the battledroids in the clone wars have "better reaction times"?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-11-12 03:04pm

Do you honestly need someone to explain to you that a computer reacts to stimuli faster than a living organism?

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-11-12 04:07pm

Howedar wrote:Do you honestly need someone to explain to you that a computer reacts to stimuli faster than a living organism?

Oh please, obviously a computer has faster reactions, but battle droids which have bodies with limited mobility and flexibility do not. Or at least I have not seen any evidence of the clone wars droids having any sort of noticeable reaction time advantage.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-12 04:07pm

Lord Revan wrote:Droids have better reaction times then any humans creative thinking is not gonna help the clone in 1on1 situation, but group fighting can develop new tactics to fit the situation and and only react to those (they lack the ability to make new tactics (they can only use their preprogramed tactics) unless there's an organic commander (why do you think the CIS uses Grevious instead an cheap full droid general (like OOM-9)

They may have better reaction times. But can they predict how the Human will react with enough accuracy to beat the Human and kill it?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-12 04:14pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:They may have better reaction times. But can they predict how the Human will react with enough accuracy to beat the Human and kill it?

That's what they desinged to do. (the Battledroids are an anti-militia and/or anti-pirate force and I dout they that predictble)

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-12 04:20pm

Lord Revan wrote:That's what they desinged to do. (the Battledroids are an anti-militia and/or anti-pirate force and I dout they that predictble)

It's my understanding that Battledroids are designed to be a cheap disposible force. And that they imploy vast numbers of them because they suck, to be blunt.

I'm not saying that the Droids are unpredictable, they seem to be the opposite. What I'm getting at is: can the droid predict the thousands of different courses of action that a Human may take, in time to beat him at 1 one 1 combat.

So far all I've seen droids to is walk and shoot and stand and shoot, and die. They don't seem to be capable of much more.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-12 04:36pm

The battle droids (of both types) may have faster reaction times and many other advantages, but they are quite frankly tactically incompetent. The B1 model is fragile and armed with a small carbine, and appears to refuse to take cover or in any way reduce their target profile or fight as a unit. The battle droids have no squad support other than B2 battle droids, which are probably inferior to organics' squads equipped with SWU GPMG analogs. They often do not appear to exhibit any combined arms tactics.

I would hate to be a battle droid tasked with flushing an urban area of organic troopers.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-12 04:59pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:[It's my understanding that Battledroids are designed to be a cheap disposible force. And that they imploy vast numbers of them because they suck, to be blunt.

I'm not saying that the Droids are unpredictable, they seem to be the opposite. What I'm getting at is: can the droid predict the thousands of different courses of action that a Human may take, in time to beat him at 1 one 1 combat.

So far all I've seen droids to is walk and shoot and stand and shoot, and die. They don't seem to be capable of much more.

A Battledroid is gonna detect and shoot an organic before he can react in 1on1 situation, but like IP pointed out their inability work as a unit and lack good squad support will cause them to be defeated in any other battlefield then an open plain (even in there they're gonna need a massive advantance in number of troopers and a competent commander.)

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-12 05:20pm

Lord Revan wrote:A Battledroid is gonna detect and shoot an organic before he can react in 1on1 situation, but like IP pointed out their inability work as a unit and lack good squad support will cause them to be defeated in any other battlefield then an open plain (even in there they're gonna need a massive advantance in number of troopers and a competent commander.)

How are they going to accomplish this feat? In the prequels they certainly haven't demonstarted that ability. In fact they seem to be no different than Humans in regards to their eyesight, reactions etc.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-11-12 05:55pm

Cpl Kendall wrote: How are they going to accomplish this feat? In the prequels they certainly haven't demonstarted that ability. In fact they seem to be no different than Humans in regards to their eyesight, reactions etc.

Finally someone else see's what im talking about. These things just arent all that great. Pretty much the only advantage I can see the droids having is that they aren't hindered by pain and can take damage bettter than a human. (at least the new models can, the ones in TPM were knocked out by single small blaster shots)

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-12 06:27pm

Icehawk wrote:
Finally someone else see's what im talking about. These things just arent all that great. Pretty much the only advantage I can see the droids having is that they aren't hindered by pain and can take damage bettter than a human. (at least the new models can, the ones in TPM were knocked out by single small blaster shots)

They also need to be used in massive numbers to be effective. And they seem to be cheaper than Human soldiers. If we go by what we saw onscreen in AOTC the droid army vastly outnumbered the Clone Army, and they still got their asses handed to them.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-11-12 06:35pm

Battledroid AI has a certain self-preservation instinct but it is dialed down dramatically compared to that of a living human being. And while it is necessary for a soldier to overcome his self-preservation instinct at times, it would not be a good thing to remove it or weaken it too much, because then he might become reckless.

Battledroids are reckless; they charge into enemy fire, and die by the thousands. This limited self-preservation instinct may instill terror into an enemy which is easily frightened because of their implacable charge, but against a well-trained enemy who will stand his ground and continue to fire at the enemy, it only gives him a shooting range.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-11-12 07:12pm

Faster reaction time is only available if you put the time and money into the droids to deliver it. There's little evidence that the Trade Federation has done this. Their droids are clearly designed to be cheap and overwhelm enemies with numbers. They're not very good against comparably armed adversaries.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-12 07:36pm

If pit one (and only one) B1 again only one Clonetrooper against each other the fight can go either way depending who get's first shot. The B2 could probaly win because rapid firfe blasters (in the situation). But if put group of Battledroids (lets say 8 B1 and 2 B2) against a Clonetrooper group of similar number (lets say a typical Clonetrooper squad) the fact that battledroids have the tactical intelegence of Borg drone causes the Clones to win. (over 1 million B1 and unknown number of B2 lost at geonosis even with the Spider and Hailfire droid for support).

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-12 07:45pm

Lord Revan wrote:If pit one (and only one) B1 again only one Clonetrooper against each other the fight can go either way depending who get's first shot. The B2 could probaly win because rapid firfe blasters (in the situation). But if put group of Battledroids (lets say 8 B1 and 2 B2) against a Clonetrooper group of similar number (lets say a typical Clonetrooper squad) the fact that battledroids have the tactical intelegence of Borg drone causes the Clones to win. (over 1 million B1 and unknown number of B2 lost at geonosis even with the Spider and Hailfire droid for support).

I'd give it to the Clonetrooper. Seeing as the Battledroids have the same speed, and reflexes that a Human does, the Humans unpredicitabilty gives him the edge.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-11-12 09:38pm

Darth Wong wrote:... Battledroids are reckless; they charge into enemy fire, and die by the thousands. This limited self-preservation instinct may instill terror into an enemy which is easily frightened because of their implacable charge, but against a well-trained enemy who will stand his ground and continue to fire at the enemy, it only gives him a shooting range.

In most cases, they don't even charge, they march. In some of the AOTC battle shots, they might be running, but a swift jog is all I remember them doing. In tight-packed formations. On an open battlefield. Its madness. Its like US Marines against a Greek Phalanx.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-12 10:10pm

The novelization says the same thing- an ordinary BD is less than a match for a Clonetrooper, but an SBD is more of one. One-for-one, that is.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-11-12 11:50pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:My point was, that you can't say that Clonetrooper is any better in 1on1 situation then B1.
Yes you can. Remember "clones can think creatively".

Who gives a fuck about creativity? The only thing a grunt needs to know is to take cover, shoot when you're supposed to shoot and charge.

Hell, all I have to do to make droids act like humans when under fire is to program 6 different reactions and make it into some random matrix.

1. Stand there acting shocked, be shot and killed.
2. Take cover.
3. Dodge left.
4. Dodge right.
5. Run.
6. Charge