Incompetence in Fallujah

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Incompetence in Fallujah

Post by Vympel »

Hope this picture doesn't get to the "Arab Street"

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This from the Los Angeles Times:
"We've got chunks of territory, but these guys (insurgents) are all over the place," Marine Lt. Brandon Turner said Thursday as he stood amid shattered glass and concrete under the green dome of Al Kalfa mosque, his fellow Marines resting on a plush red carpet.

"They just keep coming at us."


And here's the accompanying picture:



Somebody please tell Lt. Brandon Turner that he's insane, that the Pentagon is insane, whoever is allowing the marines or any American soldiers "rest" on that "plush red carpet" with their shoes, uniforms and machines guns is insane. Does anyone understand anything about religious feelings in general or about Islam in particular? Have they spent even half a day watching a documentary or two about Islam and noticed that people carefully and respectfully take their shoes off before entering a mosque, where they will kneel and put their head on that carpet? (Those "plush red carpets", by the way, are prayer rugs, or"sajjade." And you don't step on them with your combat boots, especially inside a mosque, and smile for the cameras unless you really want to fight to the death with up to a billion people.)

Seriously, this is either the most arrogant, incompetent, ignorant occupation, ever, or the most clever, insidious, skillful effort towards bringing about an apocalyptic world war. Are they asleep at the awheel, drowning under their own ignorance, or simply want to end life on earth as we know it?
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Re: Incompetence in Fallujah

Post by Captain Kruger »

:banghead: Dumb asses.
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Post by CJvR »

Sounds like a real kEinstein. On the other hand if the insurgents treats Mosques as bunkers they are the ones voiding the protected status of the place, not that that fact will matter to the raving lunatics...
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Post by Stofsk »

He's whining about them not taking their shoes off? They just bombed the fucking thing, and he's worried that they didn't take their shoes off? Because it's disrespectful? After shooting it up? Why would Muslims be more incensed by American GIs walking on the 'prayer rug' any more than by their attacking the Mosque in the first place? That makes no sense.
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Post by Captain Kruger »

Stofsk wrote:He's whining about them not taking their shoes off? They just bombed the fucking thing, and he's worried that they didn't take their shoes off? Because it's disrespectful? After shooting it up? Why would Muslims be more incensed by American GIs walking on the 'prayer rug' any more than by their attacking the Mosque in the first place? That makes no sense.
Since when does sense have anything to do with the workings of a religious fundamentalist's brain?
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Stofsk wrote:He's whining about them not taking their shoes off? They just bombed the fucking thing, and he's worried that they didn't take their shoes off? Because it's disrespectful? After shooting it up? Why would Muslims be more incensed by American GIs walking on the 'prayer rug' any more than by their attacking the Mosque in the first place? That makes no sense.
Religion makes no sense, but the fact they are lounging around in their standing about posing for fucking photos standing on the rugs is likely to piss religious folk off....
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Post by Stofsk »

Captain Kruger wrote:Since when does sense have anything to do with the workings of a religious fundamentalist's brain?
I was actually talking about the guy Vympel quoted. He took exception to the Americans lying on the prayer rug, as though they should bend over backwards to respect the place after they put bullet holes in it. he also claimed this was either a 'fucked up occupation in the history of mankind' or 'a very cunning way to bring about armageddon', neither one of which can really be inferred from his stated reasons. (oh no, GIs walking on a prayer rug with combat boots? Heaven forbid... they're either stupid or trying to cause WW3... you telling me that makes sense?)

If he wanted to make the case for 'worst occupation EVER' then he could have cited some other, relevant example.
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Post by Stofsk »

Keevan_Colton wrote:Religion makes no sense, but the fact they are lounging around in their standing about posing for fucking photos standing on the rugs is likely to piss religious folk off....
I know. But don't you think the image of the Mosque being blasted into smoky debris (one of the images I've seen in the last week) would already piss off Muslims? I just can't take the guy's criticisms seriously.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Stofsk wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:Religion makes no sense, but the fact they are lounging around in their standing about posing for fucking photos standing on the rugs is likely to piss religious folk off....
I know. But don't you think the image of the Mosque being blasted into smoky debris (one of the images I've seen in the last week) would already piss off Muslims? I just can't take the guy's criticisms seriously.
This will be about as bad...they can claim some reason for the blasting with the insurgents inside etc...but this shows plain old fashioned made in the USA arrogant disrespect for them...
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Post by Coyote »

The rules of engagement over here are well known and quite explicit. We do, indeed, bend over backwards to avoid causing any damage to mosques and other cultural/religious sites.

But we also make it abundantly clear that if insurgents try to take advantage of that, and use the mosque as a weapons platform or other military base, it will be treated as a military target.

Last night the MPs had a mosque surrounded and they were willing to wait the guys out. Nary a peep until the militants opened fire, at which point the Bradley went to work on them. They got away, but my guess is they're still running.

If that mosque was used as a sniper position in any way, it became fair game. We don't know the full story of the picture so the narrator is supplying his own in an attempt to stir shit.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Coyote wrote:*snip*
Excuse me??

They are lounging about there, they're having a fucking rest and getting their pictures taken in a holy place...there's no way you can cut this that isnt pointless disrespect on thier part.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

They had people that researched all this. They just purposely threw them out prior to the Iraq invasion.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Keevan_Colton wrote:They are lounging about there, they're having a fucking rest and getting their pictures taken in a holy place...there's no way you can cut this that isnt pointless disrespect on thier part.
They stormed and seized the place with gunfire and cannonfire, they fucking
deserve to have a rest, and fuck all who complain.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

"plain old fashioned made in the USA arrogant disrespect"

Exhibit A:
MKSheppard wrote: They stormed and seized the place with gunfire and cannonfire, they fucking
deserve to have a rest, and fuck all who complain.
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Post by Ma Deuce »

MKSheppard wrote:They stormed and seized the place with gunfire and cannonfire, they fucking
deserve to have a rest, and fuck all who complain.
They could have rested somewhere other than inside the mosque...
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Post by Rye »

The mosque may have been the safest place, you can't expect them to take their shoes off if they need to rest in the middle of a fucknig warzone.
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Post by Durandal »

Okay folks, let's be reasonable here. That picture shows rubble all over the prayer rug, and possibly shards of broken glass. You want soldiers to take their shoes off in there?

There are valid instances of US soldiers not holding the proper respect for Islamic traditions that they should, but there's only so much weight invisible men in the sky carry when put up against practicality and the safety of our soldiers.
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Post by Coyote »

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Coyote wrote:*snip*
Excuse me??

They are lounging about there, they're having a fucking rest and getting their pictures taken in a holy place...there's no way you can cut this that isnt pointless disrespect on thier part.

I'm that view fits very nicely with what you want to believe. But I say again-- we don't know the details behind what happened. I can tell you what I know, which is that we are instructed over here to be respectful of the mosques and holy sites, and cultural sites, until they are used for military purposes.

If they are used for military purposes, then they become fair game for military assault, that means storming and siezing it as any other piece of ground. And yes, that means that once the area is secured and resistance in the area is quelled, then people who have just had bullets whizzing over their fucking heads want to take a fucking break.

I hate to burst your bubble with inconsiderate truth, but not everything that happens in this world or this war is a carefully orchestrated plot and plan by the evil tyrannical overlord United States to grind little brown people into the dirt.

Sometimes you take fucking fire, you get a major goddamn pucker factor, you lay down suppresive and then some crazy guy is the first to move forward. Then we start leapfrogging behind what cover is available. Ain't no fucking arrogance to it, we're scared shitless and nobody wants to die. You kill the bastard that fired then go room to room. Someone has to be first, who wants that job? How 'bout you, you pampered little armchair general with the morality of 3,000 miles and a book to guide you?

When it's over and the goddamn building is secure, you are so fucking glad you're alive and none of your buddies took one that the last thing on your mind is "I'm going to really show them now! Watch me walk on their fancy carpet!" You chill out in the place you secured, because... it's secure, and you can chill there for a moment-- because no one is really ready to go diving headlong into the next one, capiche?

Most of the Iraqis in our sector like us. We like it that way-- it makes our job easier and we want to stay on good terms with them. We patrol a mulhollah (village) that abuts right up next to Fallujah, where a lot of the retreating terrorists spill over in their haste to get away.

Is it just too hard for you to comprehend that there might be things going on over here that you are just unaware of, that you just are not in a position to comprehend, and that this picture witht he Marines may, just may, be one of them?
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

And I think Coyote just summed it up perfectly.
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

And to think the Muslim world held us in such high regard. I guess because of this incident the may actually start hating us. :roll:
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

We're occupying their nation. It's not like we can make them anymore pissed off, I agree.
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Post by Robert Walper »

Coyote wrote:*snip*
Fucking A Coyote. About time someone tells some of these dipshit people how it really can be from a more rational, and experienced perspective.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Coyote wrote:*snip*
Excuse me??

They are lounging about there, they're having a fucking rest and getting their pictures taken in a holy place...there's no way you can cut this that isnt pointless disrespect on thier part.
Because all soldiers do in a day in a combat area is shoot and kill, right? :roll:
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Post by MKSheppard »

Keevan_Colton wrote:"plain old fashioned made in the USA arrogant disrespect"
:roll: Where would you want them to rest? In the street where the
snipers, RPGs, and machine gun fire is blazing away? Idiot.
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Post by SPOOFE »

"plain old fashioned made in the USA arrogant disrespect"
If it's disrespectful to actually not give a fuck about what psychotic fascists care about, then our country needs some more goddamned disrespect. Fuck you and your touchy-feely solutions, you arrogant dick.
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