Latest on BBC on Fallujah?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-11-15 05:09pm

Did anyone else just see the BBC News?
Something about shooting a badly injured iraqi infront of a camera crew, checking for an online source now.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2004-11-15 08:06pm

They showed the video on CNN.

There was a guy lying against the wall. A marine says "that guy's @#$%ing playing dead" and then shoots him.

Apparently the guy who was shot had already been apprehended and disarmed.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-11-15 08:20pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4014901.stm

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-15 08:25pm

I have trouble giving a shit.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-11-15 08:27pm

Kind of a big deal, though. The guy needs to be courtmartialed.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-15 08:32pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I have trouble giving a shit.

More proof of american arrogance!

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-15 08:35pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I have trouble giving a shit.

I certainly hope the JAG that looks after this case won't have the same attitude. That's a war crime and if it's true than buddy needs to spend along time making small rocks out of big ones.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-11-15 08:38pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:I have trouble giving a shit.
More proof of american arrogance!

You should give a shit because its yet another fantastic propaganda tool for those recruiting for the resistance which will lead to more angry young men trying to kill westerners and collaborators.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-15 08:42pm

Do you really think people who seek martyrdom and think its ok to cut up innocent captives really get all huffy about us summarily executing a mortally wounded combatant?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-11-15 08:42pm

I hope justice is done.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-11-15 08:42pm

From what I heard, the marine was wounded by a booby-trap the day before; and it wasn't his squad who "secured" the injured Iraqi. Another unit had, and had been forced to move out and leave the enemy wounded before they informed anyone.

So, I can understand how this happened.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-15 08:42pm

Plekhanov wrote:You should give a shit because its yet another fantastic propaganda tool for those recruiting for the resistance which will lead to more angry young men trying to kill westerners and collaborators.

30 to 1

Even with their massive population and breed like rabbits thing in the
Middle East, they'll run out of insurgents before we run out of troops.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-15 08:44pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Do you really think people who seek martyrdom and think its ok to cut up innocent captives really get all huffy about us summarily executing a mortally wounded combatant?

Thats not the point. The civilised world has rules and treaties governing how soldiers behave in wartime. Executing a wounded prisoner is clearly against them.

And if we allow ourselves to sink to their level we are no better than them.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-11-15 08:47pm

Has it not occurred to you that this case will be the “final infidel outrage” kind of thing that pushes as yet involved Iraqis into the resistance

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-15 08:47pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:From what I heard, the marine was wounded by a booby-trap the day before; and it wasn't his squad who "secured" the injured Iraqi. Another unit had, and had been forced to move out and leave the enemy wounded before they informed anyone.

So, I can understand how this happened.

That depends on the status of this particular Iraqi. Was he bound with zip ties? From the picture on the BBC it looks like he's just lying there. Irregardless, shooting an unarmed, wounded person is clearly in violation of every Geneva Convention and the US UCMJ. That soldier should be hung.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-15 08:49pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Do you really think people who seek martyrdom and think its ok to cut up innocent captives really get all huffy about us summarily executing a mortally wounded combatant?
Thats not the point. The civilised world has rules and treaties governing how soldiers behave in wartime. Executing a wounded prisoner is clearly against them.

And if we allow ourselves to sink to their level we are no better than them.

Actually, since I was replying to a post about how this was such an amazing enemy propoganda tool, it is the point. Please pay attention.

And I never said that it was not unbecoming conduct for a disciplined soldier in the USMC. I just said I don't give a flying fuck for the insurgent and quite frankly, I think he deserved to be executed.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-11-15 08:50pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Plekhanov wrote:You should give a shit because its yet another fantastic propaganda tool for those recruiting for the resistance which will lead to more angry young men trying to kill westerners and collaborators.
30 to 1

Even with their massive population and breed like rabbits thing in the
Middle East, they'll run out of insurgents before we run out of troops.

Good to know you value the lives of your troops so highly that you don’t give a shit that this will most likely lead to more of them dieing so long as a greater number of Muslims die.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-15 08:51pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Actually, since I was replying to a post about how this was such an amazing enemy propoganda tool, it is the point. Please pay attention.

Yeah because you made that amazingly clear in your post.

And I never said that it was not unbecoming conduct for a disciplined soldier in the USMC. I just said I don't give a flying fuck for the insurgent and quite frankly, I think he deserved to be executed.

Well I'm glad your not setting policy for the US Military.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-15 08:55pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: Actually, since I was replying to a post about how this was such an amazing enemy propoganda tool, it is the point. Please pay attention.
Yeah because you made that amazingly clear in your post.

Plekhanov wrote:You should give a shit because its yet another fantastic propaganda tool for those recruiting for the resistance which will lead to more angry young men trying to kill westerners and collaborators.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Do you really think people who seek martyrdom and think its ok to cut up innocent captives really get all huffy about us summarily executing a mortally wounded combatant?

Gee, those two being a cm and a half apart and directly consecutive doesn't imply anything, does it? No - I think the problem here is not my clarity, its that you're an idiot and expected me to hold your hand.

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:And I never said that it was not unbecoming conduct for a disciplined soldier in the USMC. I just said I don't give a flying fuck for the insurgent and quite frankly, I think he deserved to be executed.
Well I'm glad your not setting policy for the US Military.

And that's not a rebuttal. Do you really feel sorry for that piece of shit? Sure our soldiers need to be more disciplined, but I don't feel sorry for that Islamist fuck who'll be treated to health by us, fed through the system for awhile, and eventually released due to logistical and financial constraints. The more dead ones there are, the fewer ones left to shoot at our troops.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2004-11-15 08:57pm

I can sympathize with the soldier... after all of the scumbag tricks the resistance has used against the American soldiers, extreme paranoia wouldn't be unwarranted. The guy might have had it set up so that if they checked if he was alive, he would self-destruct. Anything like that. Shooting the guy right off wasn't the best plan, but in that situation I don't think it was as reprehensible as it initially appears.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-15 09:02pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
And that's not a rebuttal. Do you really feel sorry for that piece of shit? Sure our soldiers need to be more disciplined, but I don't feel sorry for that Islamist fuck who'll be treated to health by us, fed through the system for awhile, and eventually released due to logistical and financial constraints. The more dead ones there are, the fewer ones left to shoot at our troops.

It doesn't matter whether I feel sorry for him or not, which I do. The conventions are quite clear on the matter. Wounded POW's are to be given medical care and are not to be harmed. This man was defenseless and was summarily executed by his captors, the Conventions and UCMJ are clear on this matter. And it doesn't matter what he did, the moment he was taken prisoner he had certain rights. Those were violated.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-15 09:04pm

Seggybop wrote:I can sympathize with the soldier... after all of the scumbag tricks the resistance has used against the American soldiers, extreme paranoia wouldn't be unwarranted. The guy might have had it set up so that if they checked if he was alive, he would self-destruct. Anything like that. Shooting the guy right off wasn't the best plan, but in that situation I don't think it was as reprehensible as it initially appears.

They've used dirty tricks but that doesn't mean you can toss the UCMJ and Conventions out the window when they become inconvienant. If you think he's booby trapped, get on the radio and call for engineer support. They are trained and equipped to handle this kind of thing.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2004-11-15 09:13pm

What if the guy was pretending to be dead (like the soldier said) and then jumped out and shot somebody? That's the kind of thing they'd try...
If the soldiers came and left, he could shoot them on the way out. If they called an engineer, the engineer could get owned.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-15 09:15pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
And that's not a rebuttal. Do you really feel sorry for that piece of shit? Sure our soldiers need to be more disciplined, but I don't feel sorry for that Islamist fuck who'll be treated to health by us, fed through the system for awhile, and eventually released due to logistical and financial constraints. The more dead ones there are, the fewer ones left to shoot at our troops.
It doesn't matter whether I feel sorry for him or not, which I do. The conventions are quite clear on the matter. Wounded POW's are to be given medical care and are not to be harmed. This man was defenseless and was summarily executed by his captors, the Conventions and UCMJ are clear on this matter. And it doesn't matter what he did, the moment he was taken prisoner he had certain rights. Those were violated.

And you again, devined my opinion that he should not be court-martialed how? Could you run it by me? Or are you just strawmanning me.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-11-15 09:16pm

Seggybop wrote:What if the guy was pretending to be dead (like the soldier said) and then jumped out and shot somebody? That's the kind of thing they'd try...
If the soldiers came and left, he could shoot them on the way out. If they called an engineer, the engineer could get owned.

Well first you insure that he is unarmed. And second, you either wait for the engineers to arrive and provide security for them while they work. Or you wait for them and leave after they get there. And the engineers provide their own security.

Trust me military engineers are more than capable of defending themselves.