New PETA campaign: Fish are smart

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New PETA campaign: Fish are smart

Post by fgalkin »

Do you Yahoo!!!?
NEW YORK - Touting tofu chowder and vegetarian sushi as alternatives, animal-rights activists have launched a novel campaign arguing that fish — contrary to stereotype — are intelligent, sensitive animals no more deserving of being eaten than a pet dog or cat.

Called the Fish Empathy Project, the campaign reflects a strategy shift by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals as it challenges a diet component widely viewed as nutritious and uncontroversial.

"No one would ever put a hook through a dog's or cat's mouth," said Bruce Friedrich, PETA's director of vegan outreach. "Once people start to understand that fish, although they come in different packaging, are just as intelligent, they'll stop eating them."

The campaign is in its infancy and will face broad skepticism. Major groups such as the American Heart Association (news - web sites) recommend fish as part of a healthy diet; some academics say it is wrong to portray the intelligence and pain sensitivity of fish as comparable to mammals.

"Fish are very complex organisms that do all sorts of fascinating things," said University of Wyoming neuroscientist James Rose. "But to suggest they know they what's happening to them and worry about it, that's just not the case."

PETA, headquartered in Norfolk, Va., has campaigned for years against sport fishing, challenging claims by Rose and others that fish caught by anglers do not feel pain. PETA also has joined other critics in decrying the high levels of mercury or other toxins in many fish and the pollution discharged by many fish farms.

The Empathy Project is a departure in two respects — attempting to depict the standard practices of commercial fishing as cruel and seeking to convince consumers that there are ethical reasons for not eating fish.

"Fish are so misunderstood because they're so far removed from our daily lives," said Karin Robertson, 24, the Empathy Project manager and daughter of an Indiana fisheries biologist. "They're such interesting, fascinating individuals, yet they're so incredibly abused."

The project was inspired by several recent scientific studies — widely reported in Britain but little-noticed in the United States — detailing facets of fish intelligence.

Oxford University researcher Theresa Burt de Perera, for example, reported that the blind Mexican cave fish is able to interpret water pressure changes to construct a detailed mental map of its surroundings.

"Most people dismiss fish as dimwitted pea-brains. ... Yet this is a great fallacy," wrote University of Edinburgh biologist Culum Brown in the June edition of New Scientist. "In many areas, such as memory, their cognitive powers match or exceed those of 'higher' vertebrates, including non-human primates."

Chris Glass of the Manomet Center for Conservation Sciences in Massachusetts led another recent study, showing how North Sea haddock developed abilities to avoid trawlers' nets.

"There's no doubt that fish of all shapes and forms are capable of learning fairly complex tasks," Glass said. "They can learn from their environment and experience."

Yet Glass declined to endorse the don't-eat-fish appeals.

"We don't want to be caught between warring factions," he said. "We're interested in helping the fisheries industry do a responsible job."

To press their argument, PETA activists plan demonstrations starting next month at selected seafood restaurants nationwide. PETA also will urge changes in commercial fishing practices, for example proposing that trawler crews stun fish before cutting them up.

Friedrich questioned why there is popular support for sparing marine mammals — dolphins and porpoises — yet minimal concern for species like tuna, "whose suffering would warrant felony animal cruelty charges if they were mammals."



Fish-welfare rules would be a new realm for U.S. commercial fishermen. The National Fisheries Institute, which represents them, has pledged to help sustain fish stocks but its members have never faced cruelty regulations regarding their catch.

"It's irresponsible to discourage people from eating fish at a time when doctors and dietitians advise eating it twice a week," said institute president John Connelly. "If anything, we should be eating more fish."

Friedrich acknowledges the difficulty of changing long-held customs, but thinks his project is worthwhile. "We'd rather go too far than not far enough," he said.
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Post by Stormbringer »

Fish are smart, PETA is dumb. Solyent green anyone?
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Post by Alyeska »

"They're such interesting, fascinating individuals"

Talk to your fish lately?

:lol:
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Post by darthdavid »

A novel idea, let's start eating PETA members.
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Post by Stormbringer »

darthdavid wrote:A novel idea, let's start eating PETA members.
Already beat you to that.
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Post by Petrosjko »

That bass I ate once probably was working on a cure for cancer before he got caught.

I bet his family misses him greatly, too.

Oh well, the only real meat comes off a cow, so I'll continue eating steak while they hassle the sushi fanatics.
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

Hey PETA, look what I hooked! Einsten here sure was tasty. :lol:


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Post by Jalinth »

Stormbringer wrote:
darthdavid wrote:A novel idea, let's start eating PETA members.
Already beat you to that.
PETA sushi - :shock: - do you know where they've been and eaten? Shudder

Anyone getting between me and sashimi will be in trouble. Export these folks to Vancouver - they'd live about 5 minutes before the sushi crowd gutted them. In my area, more sushi places exist than fast food.
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Post by Mayabird »

And we've reached a new low.

*shakes head*

Fish are as smart as primates. :roll: They're FISH. They don't have brains as highly developed as mammals, and them's the facts, morons.

I can only wonder what idiocy PETA will be spouting next. I'd make guesses, but I'm not smart enough to be able to think down to their level, and they can undoubtably think up stupidity far beyond the abilities of my imagination.
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Post by Tzeentch »

Hmm...

Well, this is retarded.

A PETA spokesperson is coming to speak to my ethics class next tuesday. I actually buy a bunch of utilitarian arguments for animal rights, but apparently that doesn't make PETA less stupid. Anyone got any uncomfortable questions for me to ask the guy?
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Post by Mayabird »

If you want ideas, I have one from a book I read once.

Why do they go after ladies wearing fur coats and not men wearing leather? It's just as cruel to slaughter cows as cute fuzzy animals. Why don't they throw paint on big burly Hell's Angels to protest the death of cows? Wimping out is not an option. They must stand up for the rights of ALL animals, not just ones that are cuddly.

(We all know the reason why. I just want to hear what bullshit explanations the guy has or how he tries to get out of it.)
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Post by Fire Fly »

I don't know who is more stupid, a PETA member who tries to distort basic scientific principles in favor of their view or a religious fundamentalist who distorts basic scientific prinicples in favor of their view. Equal, shall we say?

I don't understand what has bred this intense fervor among PETA folks to make them think that an inferior organism is the equal of a human.
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Post by Elheru Aran »

Wicked Pilot wrote:Hey PETA, look what I hooked! Einsten here sure was tasty. :lol:


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Post by Guardsman Bass »

I remember learning in biology that the brains of fishes are basically almost entirely made up of the same area that is the cerebellum in humans(aka, automatic life-sustaining processes).

If so, fish are much more intelligent than PETA members.
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Post by neoolong »

Fish are smart? Are they talking about the same fish that aren't smart enough to stop eating when full if there's food available?
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Post by Petrosjko »

neoolong wrote:Fish are smart? Are they talking about the same fish that aren't smart enough to stop eating when full if there's food available?
The same rocket scientists that go 'Ooooh! Wiggly shiny object!' *CHOMP*.

Yes indeed. I for one welcome our new aquatic overlords.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Yep...I'm gonna deprive my kitty of her tuna treats because of PETA.

*sigh*

At times I love that they are ignorant to how utterly hilarious and inane they truly are.
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Post by Plekhanov »

Mayabird wrote:If you want ideas, I have one from a book I read once.

Why do they go after ladies wearing fur coats and not men wearing leather? It's just as cruel to slaughter cows as cute fuzzy animals. Why don't they throw paint on big burly Hell's Angels to protest the death of cows? Wimping out is not an option. They must stand up for the rights of ALL animals, not just ones that are cuddly.

(We all know the reason why. I just want to hear what bullshit explanations the guy has or how he tries to get out of it.)
Animal rights groups tend to go after fur rather than leather for a number of reasons

1. Fur industry is much smaller than leather consequently the chances of stopping it are much better.

2. Leather has many practical everyday applications which people see as necessary, this isn’t the case for fur.

3. Fur has many negative connotations, ie. Its seen as an expensive elitist luxury or a tacky way nouveau-riche types attempt to act classy, again this makes it easy to campaign against.

4. The animals you get fur from tend to be cute (much more so than cows anyway) this makes gaining sympathy for them easy.

5. Leather is often a by-product from animals slaughtered for food, this is rarely the case with fur.

The getting the shit kicked out of you if you try the paint thing on many leather jacket-wearing guys is probably a factor for some people as well but I think it’s way down the list.


As for fish being smart I wouldn’t know about that but I do remember reading something about how octopuses being rather intelligent and that they have demonstrated basic problem solving abilities and so forth in experiments.
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Animal rights groups tend to go after fur rather than leather for a number of reasons

1. Fur industry is much smaller than leather consequently the chances of stopping it are much better.

2. Leather has many practical everyday applications which people see as necessary, this isn’t the case for fur.

3. Fur has many negative connotations, ie. Its seen as an expensive elitist luxury or a tacky way nouveau-riche types attempt to act classy, again this makes it easy to campaign against.

4. The animals you get fur from tend to be cute (much more so than cows anyway) this makes gaining sympathy for them easy.

5. Leather is often a by-product from animals slaughtered for food, this is rarely the case with fur.
No, it's because they'd rather throw paint on little old ladies who they know can't get back at them effectively than bikers who would pound them senseless. It's cowardice. :roll:
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Post by Plekhanov »

Rogue 9 wrote:No, it's because they'd rather throw paint on little old ladies who they know can't get back at them effectively than bikers who would pound them senseless. It's cowardice. :roll:
I do wonder then why they don't attack smaller, less violent wearers of leather then? I don't know about the US but there are plenty over here, lots of puny women wear leather jackets as do all those geeks in their matrix coats most of whom your average hunt sab could kick the shit out of no problem.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Plekhanov wrote: I do wonder then why they don't attack smaller, less violent wearers of leather then? I don't know about the US but there are plenty over here, lots of puny women wear leather jackets as do all those geeks in their matrix coats most of whom your average hunt sab could kick the shit out of no problem.
As someone who knows many large and professionally unpleasant biker types, in the UK at least, the reason might be that the large biker types are quite likely to kick fuck out the PETA folk on general principles if they find out they're throwing paint onto folk with leather on...
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Post by Plekhanov »

Keevan_Colton wrote:As someone who knows many large and professionally unpleasant biker types, in the UK at least, the reason might be that the large biker types are quite likely to kick fuck out the PETA folk on general principles if they find out they're throwing paint onto folk with leather on...
I dunno about PETA types (do we even have any over here?) but the hunt sabs I know do it if anything more because they like getting in to fights with hunters and riot police than because of a love of foxes. They might well relish the chance of getting into a fight with a bunch of bikers the only trouble is bikers aren’t anywhere near posh enough to incur their ire.
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Post by wautd »

might be old buthere goes anyway:

Carrot Juice Is Murder (4.5 meg mp3).


I'm not gonna watch this propaganda. I saw their movie about eating meat not so long ago. Funny how they over-exaggerate everything and don't give any proof to their arguments
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

If I were PETA, I'd be filing myself for genocide. The mass killing of so many brain cells is not moral.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Plekhanov wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:As someone who knows many large and professionally unpleasant biker types, in the UK at least, the reason might be that the large biker types are quite likely to kick fuck out the PETA folk on general principles if they find out they're throwing paint onto folk with leather on...
I dunno about PETA types (do we even have any over here?) but the hunt sabs I know do it if anything more because they like getting in to fights with hunters and riot police than because of a love of foxes. They might well relish the chance of getting into a fight with a bunch of bikers the only trouble is bikers aren’t anywhere near posh enough to incur their ire.
Not only that but another point.

They aren't really good targets in terms of generating pointless drama. Little old woman wearing furs...while poor anything...is noticed and brought forth as advertising and given a couple minutes of pointless news.

Spray paint a biker and you don't even get the reason why, you just get a daily report of a mass beating.

One you get your yabberings across because the Media knows why you did and let people ridicule you, the other is just asking for an amount of pain with no hope of getting the media to udnerstand or even give your message across.
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