New ST-V-SW Site!

[SirNitram]

The memberlist of that forum seems awfuly familiar...

This surprises you? Remember how Darkstar and some others paint this; a great battle, a heroic stand, et cetera. So whenever someone hoists the banner, the army runs to it.

[Connor MacLeod]

You forgot about the parrt indicating just how thick the door was.

Ah, you're right, dude! Thanks for the reminder:

pg.68: The metal door which began moving aside was as thick as her body--as if, she mused bitterly, they were afraid she might break through anything less massive with her bare hands.

You're welcome.

Its worth noting that based on the movies, the door itself is about a meter or so wide and at least one and a half to two meters tall (probably more like 1.6-1.8 meters.) Assuming "thick as her body" means around 15-20 centimeters and that the door was mostly melted (rather than vaporized), you yield an output figure around several tens of megajoules (assuming 100-shots per power pack for an E-11).

It is possible that the door was vaporized parttly or there was shattering, but the former is unlikely because if the door blew apart *too* violently its possible that Leia might have been harmed by debris striking her (she doesn't appear to be that far away from the door) Even assuming that though, the estimate is reasonable to within an order of magnitude, especially if you consider that Luke did not apparently did not run out of ammo or need to replace power packs after doing this (for that matter, he apparently had enough ammo to sustain him in the firefight with stormtroopers, which implies he had at least several dozen shots left over.)

A worse problem is someone claiming that this scene is inadmissable because it disagrees with what is shown in the movies.

[Alyeska]

The problem is "Neutral ground" is very hard to come by these days. Thats what encourages the pile up on boards that do pop up.

[Connor MacLeod]

Didn't Darkstar once claim he was the "Last Bastion" of Trek or something?

[Ghost Rider]

Didn't Darkstar once claim he was the "Last Bastion" of Trek or something?

I believe he still does, think this.

I remember this being on his website at one point.

[Alyeska]

I don't know if he ever called himself that, but everyone labeled him as the sort to call himself that.

[Connor MacLeod]

Didn't Darkstar once claim he was the "Last Bastion" of Trek or something?

I believe he still does, think this.

I remember this being on his website at one point.

So he's the "Last Bastion", except for all those people who agree with him and think like him?

This guy makes McCarthy look stable and well adjusted.

[SirNitram]

He did indeed. This, of course, understandably riled up the Pro-ST debators of ASVS. After all, these poor sods had to basically take a break whenever he showed up; all threads would be poisoned into moronic diatribes. He got heavily flamed by one of them for taking every step forward they made into the debate to four steps running back.

[Connor MacLeod]

I don't know if he ever called himself that, but everyone labeled him as the sort to call himself that.

I think it was something on ASVS.

[Connor MacLeod]

He did indeed. This, of course, understandably riled up the Pro-ST debators of ASVS. After all, these poor sods had to basically take a break whenever he showed up; all threads would be poisoned into moronic diatribes. He got heavily flamed by one of them for taking every step forward they made into the debate to four steps running back.

I remember hearing that Lord Edam really let him have it one time. And if you're getting your ass kicked by Edam, you REALLY are off the deep end.

[Vympel]

Stewart of SDI fame has joined.

[Vympel]

I remember hearing that Lord Edam really let him have it one time. And if you're getting your ass kicked by Edam, you REALLY are off the deep end.

Dude, you've got to check ASVS then- I'm pretty sure his smackdown of Darkstar is archived on the trolls page. If you really haven't read it, it's great.

[Connor MacLeod]

Stewart of SDI fame has joined.

did he bring decryption gear for everyone else?

[Master of Ossus]

Stewart of SDI fame has joined.

Yeah, Rogue 9 pointed that out.

[Connor MacLeod]

I remember hearing that Lord Edam really let him have it one time. And if you're getting your ass kicked by Edam, you REALLY are off the deep end.

Dude, you've got to check ASVS then- I'm pretty sure his smackdown of Darkstar is archived on the trolls page. If you really haven't read it, it's great.

I'm aware of that. I'm also of sufficient veteranship to claim to have been a small part of those long-past wars even though I was never formally an ASVSer or have ever taken direct action against Darkstar.

I have, ,however, engaged Edam more than once in the past and am thus familiar with HIS debating style. Knowing that and knowing that Edam royally reamed Darkstar, I can extrapolate just how much worse Scooter is.

And yes, I could probably tell by reading some of Darkstar's stuff myself, but I've developed an aversion to reading idiotic material directly - its like staring directly at the sun.

[Praxis]

My...gosh...
I refuted Newlands arguements, and he reposts them.

Look at this:

No, the 100 megaton claim has not been refuted, unless you count the attempted refutation of Darkstars page by Ossus. Also, you still have yet to prove that the 1-10 gigaton calcs are false.

Incorrect. For 100 megatons, I already showed you the disproof (not MoO's post, btw, which also disproved it). Shall I do it again? http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/HateMai ... id-ST.html Read it, for the THIRD TIME. Owned. Here's the thread where I already did it, too. http://www.strek-v-swars.net/phpBB2/vie ... 6&start=35

And we already disproved the 10 gigaton estimate, and YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO DEFEND AGAINST OUR REFUTATION.
http://www.strek-v-swars.net/phpBB2/vie ... &start=140

Did you forget the ENTIRE PAGE about chain reactions we discussed? The phaser did NOT supply 10 gigatons of energy- the energy was derived from a chain reaction in the ice.

We have proved BOTH of these false.

Read this.
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWrise.html
There's the refutation of Ossus's pitiful refutation. As for the chain reaction thing, the effects were real. It doesn't matter if phasers are chain reaction weapons or not, they will still be effective against Imperial vessels. BTW, the only true refutation you've come up with was that the comet was surrounded by gas, but you fail to note that the comet was composed of ice, not gas.

He links to a DarkStar page. I link to a refutation. He re-links to DarkStar's page.

What is wrong with this guy?

[Vympel]

Well, it's not technically a debate- it's basically Edam venting at Scooter for being such a fuckwit. Observe:

Today's news is brought to you by the number 7, and the letter from
Guardian 2000

> > feh, enough. I'll leave guardian fuck up this debate like he has every
> > other one he's got invovled with here. The greatest threat to ST on this
> > group isn't the pro-Wars side, or saxton, or Wong. It's Guardian.
>
> Well, fuck you, bitch. Would you care to explain this bullshit comment of
> yours, 'cause it looks to me like you're just trying to suck Rabid Warsie
> cock.

I think you make my point for me quite nicely, Scottie.


> Don't come in here agreeing with my arguments as I stand here, the last
> bastion and sole defender of them, and then question the manner in which I
> provide them.

HA!! I haven't heard anything that funny since Paradox said he was the
greatest metal head here, but couldn't answer a single one of my
(relatively easy) trivia questions.

I bet you think of yourself as some sort of trekkie debate god, don't
you?

last bastion and sole defender.

Great, so who keeps this place ticking over for the nine months you
aren't here? Do you think it just devolves into a Warsie WankFest?


Do you want to know WHY you seem to be the last man standing for trek in these debates?

Because when you turn up, the rest of us fuck off. We know there will be
no productive debate in this goup whilst you are here, so we don't even
try (that's right - my latest contributions have been complete no-
brainers as far as I'm concerned, and for the regulars here it shows.
Still far superior to your long thought out ideas, though, aren't they?)

you fuck things up. Like you did with this neutronium debate, like you
did with the canon debates. Like you did with the warp maneuvering
thread (I can think of six examples that show wayne to be wrong in every
incarnation o f his definition of the term - but you were more
interested in throwing insults than actually proving anything, weren't
you?).

you have almost zero Trek knowledge, even less Wars knowledge, and your debate skills don't stretch beyond demand more proof that won't be
verified and throw an insult when it doesn't go your way.

You offer no actual evidence, because you don't know enough to find the
quotes that support your case, so you simply state your opinion and
insist everybody else provides full quotes to support their rebuttals
(and when they DO provide those quotes, you don't know if they are true,
mildly twisted or blatant lies)

Your complete lack of knowledge in the subjects you debate and general
skills in debate in general means any thread you get involved in rapidly
degenerates into insults and everyone stubbornly refusing to accept what
anyone says.

For the rest of us, the ones who know exactly what you need to support
your argument, we can't supply it because by the time we get round to
replying you've gone ten posts of mud flinging past the point and no one
cares anymore. The thread has turned into a wind-up, where the pro-Wars
side are laughing at the idiot trekkie getting more and more angry with
every passing post.

And then you fuck off for six months, and leave the rest of us to try
and clear up the mess you left and actually turn the debates you fucked
up into something useful, when all the pro-Wars side are interested in
is reminding us how easily they won the debate last time (when they
didn't - all they did was run rings around the idiot and wind him up
something rotten)


> If you want to take part in the debate, then do so,

Oh, you're so kind, allowing me to dabble in the means to glory. you
mean, like I've done here? Providing points you should have picked up on
straight away but didn't, because you'd been fooled into another of your
"rabid warise" rants (just like I managed to do to you with this bit)


but do
> not dare come waltzing in saying "Yes, Guardian is right on every count, but
> I dare not stand beside those arguments for more than an instant because
> he's not popular."

Oh, I think you're right(or rather, have a very good point, even though
you can't prove it). Same as I thought Tim Jones very often made superb
contributions to this group(and he could even name his source for Trek)
- but I supported the FS(not the FAQ) when it was suggested, because his
lack of (wars)knowledge and lack of debate skills turned any thread
where he was involved into a circus. The reason I'm not supporting your
arguments now is because I know exactly where your threads are going.
Nothing useful will come of them, beyond arguments myself and others
were supplying three years ago without getting half the group to turn
against us in the process. Anything I supply will be quickly ignored in
favour of watching you go off on another rabid warsie rant.


But don't worry, when you fuck off crying again I'll still be here,
trying to find a way to rescue sometihng from your cockups. same as I do
everytime. Same as I used to do with TJ. I'm sure a couple of friends
will come to join me, as well. You could call us the last bastions -
without us, there would be no standing trek defence in this group.

If you ever bother reading google for past threads before making a
contribution you'd see how far we can get when you aren't here. Shame
you always have to start from square one, and knock the rest of us back
there with your idiocy.


> The greatest threat to ST in this group is not me . .
> . it's you, and others who are willing to brush truth aside in favor of
> keeping the Rabid Warsies happy.

Riiiight. So I've managed to get through four and a half years as a
vehemently pro-Trek debater here by brushing the truth aside? During my
ten years in on-line Vs debates I've only really been interested in
making people like me?

I've managed to turn three quarters of the pro-Wars side of this group
against me (infact, every single one of your Rabid Warsies) by going out
of my way to keep them happy?

fuck that.


I've been here since the start, and I will be here until the end. I have
NEVER avoided speaking the truth when I can get something from it, and
not one of the posts I have made has ever been an attempt to make myself popular. And I can guarantee you now they never will be.

So, when you get fed up of being the last bastion and defender of the
faith or whatever fucked up little fantasy you have of your time here
spare a thought for the rest of us - the long timers, the ones who don't
plonk everybody and run off crying because they wouldn't accept our
insults as valid arguments. The ones who were here before you even had
net access, the ones who will be here long after you've tired of the
struggling to prove a single one of your ideas. The ones who are going
to be working their arses off to get something of value from the chaos
you have caused, so you can come back when you are bored and fuck it all up again.

Oh, but don't expect us to always speak out about what we know or
believe. Some of us have enough restraint to limit our contributions to
something we think we can get actual debate gains from. That's one of
the skills of debate - knowing when to open up and when to shut up.

Maybe that's the difference between you and I - I'm not here to be the
last chance of Trek in the group. I'm not interested in glory, or
demonstrating my prowess to people who don't care. I'm here because this is what I am, have always been and will always be, through defeat and hatred, victory and adoration, irrespective of "the truth" or
"popularity", whether I am the last man standing or just another one of
the vocal majority. I'm pretty sure I've been both and everything in
between during my time.


fuck off, scottie.


you aren't a god
you aren't a good debater.
you most certainly aren't our final hope.

you're just a no-friend loser who doesn't know when to shut up.


--
Lord Edam de Fromage
aka Sorborus

So yeah, he *did* call himself the last bastion and sole defender.

[Connor MacLeod]

Yeah, I remember it. That's always hilarious, even considering how arrogant Edam's statements sound (I like the bit where he confidently claims he could have refuted Wayne, or where he explicitly cites Curtis and Mike as "threats"

[Praxis]

Has anyone realized that all the idiots have mod powers?


Worf has mod powers and locked a thread, and Captain Newland has mod powers and locked a thread. I'd bet DarkStar does too.

[Sonnenburg]

He also had this one after Kynes posted his website on Scooter.

Yes, the "last bastion of Trek" ran away when someone reminded him he was in the telephone directory.

[Connor MacLeod]

He also had this one after Kynes posted his website on Scooter.

Yes, the "last bastion of Trek" ran away when someone reminded him he was in the telephone directory.

[Connor MacLeod]

Whats funny is that on reading that I had a sudden image of Scooter dressed up in superhero tights with his security blanket tied around his neck muttering "Blast! they discovered my secret identity!"

[brianeyci]

Has anyone realized that all the idiots have mod powers?


Worf has mod powers and locked a thread, and Captain Newland has mod powers and locked a thread. I'd bet DarkStar does too.

Well. Doesn't look like they are abusing it so far. As long as they don't ban people for no reason, no problem. They locked a thread that deserved to be locked -- "Feds win because they are good guys" lol

Brian

[Winston Blake]

Here's a nice quote:

Can you explain how Leia's arm produced a spray of glowing sparks?

How is that relevant, even if we take them to be actual sparks? They're glowy-bits . . . post-impact glowy-bits cannot alter the trajectory of the bolt pre-impact.

That's right, to avoid a point, DarkStar said that these aren't sparks, but glowy bits:

http://www.strek-v-swars.net/phpBB2/vie ... c&start=35

(Note: I am Crashwinder.)

[Vympel]

ROFLMAO- the pictures posted of huge showers of sparks against metal were very impressive in debunking that bullshit, too.