1st and 2nd Gen US K-Pots
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- MKSheppard
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1st and 2nd Gen US K-Pots
Linky
Army's new combat helmet might have fatal flaw
By Greg Jaffe
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
August 27, 2004
BAGHDAD, Iraq – Earlier this year, with the insurgency in Iraq building and U.S. casualties mounting, Lt. Col. Jeff Poffenbarger, the Army's senior neurosurgeon here, became convinced the Army was making a mistake that could lead to American deaths.
The Army had begun issuing a new helmet, dubbed the Advanced Combat Helmet. Made of a new type of Kevlar, the helmet is stronger and lighter than its predecessor.
But the new helmet has a critical flaw, Poffenbarger contends. It is about 8 percent smaller than the old helmet, offering less protection on the back and side of the head.
In past wars, that might not have been a big problem. In infantry-style combat, soldiers typically are struck in the front of the head as they charge toward the enemy.
But in Iraq, the deadliest threat is from remote-detonated roadside bombs, and many soldiers are getting hit on the sides and back of the head, said Poffenbarger.
"I've become convinced that for this type of guerrilla fight, we are giving away coverage that we need to save lives," said Poffenbarger, a 42-year-old former Green Beret.
This summer, he briefed Gen. George Casey, the top American general in Iraq, as well as a senior Army official in the Pentagon about his concerns regarding the helmet.
Gen. Casey declined to comment on the matter.
But for now, the Army is committed to issuing the helmet to all 840,000 soldiers in the force by 2007, said Col. John Norwood, the Army's project manager for soldier equipment.
There's a good reason that the new helmet is slightly smaller, Norwood said. For years, soldiers have complained that when they are lying on their stomachs firing rifles, their body armor rides up, tipping their helmet over their eyes. The new helmet was designed to address that problem.
"We think it is a good trade-off or we wouldn't be fielding it," Norwood said.
However, the Marine Corps has decided not to issue the smaller helmet to the vast majority of its forces and has developed its own new helmet. It is made of the same stronger Kevlar as the Army's, but the Marines decided not to alter the shape.
Because of Poffenbarger's research, some senior commanders of new units arriving in Iraq have been given the choice of keeping their old helmets or using the new ones, one defense official said. Tens of thousands of soldiers are already wearing the new helmet in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The biggest appeal of the new Army helmet is that it is made of a stronger Kevlar, able to stop a bullet from a 9mm pistol at close range, said the Army's Norwood.
The new helmet is also lighter, weighing three pounds compared with the older four-pound helmet.
Soldiers in Iraq say the new Army helmet, which is padded on the inside, is more comfortable.
"It doesn't shift around on your head as much as the old helmet," said an Army sergeant who leads regular convoys between Ramadi and Khalidiyah.
But the sergeant said he also noticed the new helmet doesn't cover as much of his head. "It seems the area around my ears is a lot more exposed," he said.
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- Patrick Degan
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Nowhere near as effective as one of these:
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Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
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It does look a LOT smaller, but the stronger kevlar may make it a reasonable trade-off. Still, I think I'd prefer the MC's route, and take the larger size and better materials.
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Fun fact regarding that legionary helmet: the reinforcing bar along the front was added after encountering barbarians equipped with falxes. I think.
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- Elheru Aran
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A special kind of combat scythe. Very, very nasty.Elheru Aran wrote:Off-topic question: "falxes"?? Battle-axes? Never heard that term before...Vympel wrote:Fun fact regarding that legionary helmet: the reinforcing bar along the front was added after encountering barbarians equipped with falxes. I think.
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Iron helmet against a modern round, no chance. The design however provides a lot more coverage for the head than the new Army helmet.Veramocor wrote:I wonder how it would actually hold up against a bullet compared to kevlar? I remember seeing some demos of muskets being fired at armor where the armor would hold up. But against a modern day round I'm not sure.Patrick Degan wrote:Nowhere near as effective as one of these:
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When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
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It might actually have a chance, against some pistol bullets, but not many and probably not 9x19mm. It also would stop many fragments.Patrick Degan wrote:
Iron helmet against a modern round, no chance. The design however provides a lot more coverage for the head than the new Army helmet.
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Re: 1st and 2nd Gen US K-Pots
Let me say this here and now: it was the single biggest problem with the "old" helmet. I can deal with the lack of padding, I can deal with the weight and loss of most of my peripheral vision but whenever you assume the prone position it became damn near impossible to actually sight in.MKSheppard wrote:<snip>
There's a good reason that the new helmet is slightly smaller, Norwood said. For years, soldiers have complained that when they are lying on their stomachs firing rifles, their body armor rides up, tipping their helmet over their eyes. The new helmet was designed to address that problem.
<snip>
In all honesty I would much rather go with the new helmet style and just remember to wear the yoke seciton of the flak jacket.
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I disliked the old style K-pots as they gave me flashbacks to WWII movies....
come to think of it I could just imagine a final countdown kind of simario where a US army detachment with modern equipment winds up slugging through the Ardannes on chistmas of 44.
come to think of it I could just imagine a final countdown kind of simario where a US army detachment with modern equipment winds up slugging through the Ardannes on chistmas of 44.
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Our medics here are seeing a lot more cases of head and neck wounds among guys using the new helmets. Head and neck wounds being nothing you want to play with, I opted to keep my old style Kevlar.
We also do not fight from the prone in this conflict-- things move too fas to be wasting time getting up and dowm. We kneel behind whatever cover is available-- cars, low walls which are in abundance here, etc.
THe 'advantages' the new helmet offers has not proven to offset the dangers in an urban environment...
We also do not fight from the prone in this conflict-- things move too fas to be wasting time getting up and dowm. We kneel behind whatever cover is available-- cars, low walls which are in abundance here, etc.
THe 'advantages' the new helmet offers has not proven to offset the dangers in an urban environment...
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
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Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!