1st and 2nd Gen US K-Pots

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

1st and 2nd Gen US K-Pots

Post by MKSheppard »

Image

Linky

Army's new combat helmet might have fatal flaw


By Greg Jaffe
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

August 27, 2004

BAGHDAD, Iraq – Earlier this year, with the insurgency in Iraq building and U.S. casualties mounting, Lt. Col. Jeff Poffenbarger, the Army's senior neurosurgeon here, became convinced the Army was making a mistake that could lead to American deaths.


The Army had begun issuing a new helmet, dubbed the Advanced Combat Helmet. Made of a new type of Kevlar, the helmet is stronger and lighter than its predecessor.

But the new helmet has a critical flaw, Poffenbarger contends. It is about 8 percent smaller than the old helmet, offering less protection on the back and side of the head.

In past wars, that might not have been a big problem. In infantry-style combat, soldiers typically are struck in the front of the head as they charge toward the enemy.

But in Iraq, the deadliest threat is from remote-detonated roadside bombs, and many soldiers are getting hit on the sides and back of the head, said Poffenbarger.

"I've become convinced that for this type of guerrilla fight, we are giving away coverage that we need to save lives," said Poffenbarger, a 42-year-old former Green Beret.

This summer, he briefed Gen. George Casey, the top American general in Iraq, as well as a senior Army official in the Pentagon about his concerns regarding the helmet.

Gen. Casey declined to comment on the matter.

But for now, the Army is committed to issuing the helmet to all 840,000 soldiers in the force by 2007, said Col. John Norwood, the Army's project manager for soldier equipment.

There's a good reason that the new helmet is slightly smaller, Norwood said. For years, soldiers have complained that when they are lying on their stomachs firing rifles, their body armor rides up, tipping their helmet over their eyes. The new helmet was designed to address that problem.

"We think it is a good trade-off or we wouldn't be fielding it," Norwood said.

However, the Marine Corps has decided not to issue the smaller helmet to the vast majority of its forces and has developed its own new helmet. It is made of the same stronger Kevlar as the Army's, but the Marines decided not to alter the shape.

Because of Poffenbarger's research, some senior commanders of new units arriving in Iraq have been given the choice of keeping their old helmets or using the new ones, one defense official said. Tens of thousands of soldiers are already wearing the new helmet in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The biggest appeal of the new Army helmet is that it is made of a stronger Kevlar, able to stop a bullet from a 9mm pistol at close range, said the Army's Norwood.

The new helmet is also lighter, weighing three pounds compared with the older four-pound helmet.

Soldiers in Iraq say the new Army helmet, which is padded on the inside, is more comfortable.

"It doesn't shift around on your head as much as the old helmet," said an Army sergeant who leads regular convoys between Ramadi and Khalidiyah.

But the sergeant said he also noticed the new helmet doesn't cover as much of his head. "It seems the area around my ears is a lot more exposed," he said.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
Patrick Degan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14847
Joined: 2002-07-15 08:06am
Location: Orleanian in exile

Post by Patrick Degan »

Nowhere near as effective as one of these:

Image

8)
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln

People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House

Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
User avatar
Master of Ossus
Darkest Knight
Posts: 18213
Joined: 2002-07-11 01:35am
Location: California

Post by Master of Ossus »

It does look a LOT smaller, but the stronger kevlar may make it a reasonable trade-off. Still, I think I'd prefer the MC's route, and take the larger size and better materials.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22459
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Post by Mr Bean »

Question do they just screw up the sizing and he's wearing a smaller helmet?

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
Vympel
Spetsnaz
Spetsnaz
Posts: 29312
Joined: 2002-07-19 01:08am
Location: Sydney Australia

Post by Vympel »

Fun fact regarding that legionary helmet: the reinforcing bar along the front was added after encountering barbarians equipped with falxes. I think.
Like Legend of Galactic Heroes? Please contribute to http://gineipaedia.com/
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Post by Elheru Aran »

Vympel wrote:Fun fact regarding that legionary helmet: the reinforcing bar along the front was added after encountering barbarians equipped with falxes. I think.
Off-topic question: "falxes"?? Battle-axes? :? Never heard that term before...
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
PeZook
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13237
Joined: 2002-07-18 06:08pm
Location: Poland

Post by PeZook »

Elheru Aran wrote:
Vympel wrote:Fun fact regarding that legionary helmet: the reinforcing bar along the front was added after encountering barbarians equipped with falxes. I think.
Off-topic question: "falxes"?? Battle-axes? :? Never heard that term before...
A special kind of combat scythe. Very, very nasty.
Veramocor
Youngling
Posts: 79
Joined: 2004-05-03 09:27pm
Location: Hotlanta, Ga

Post by Veramocor »

Patrick Degan wrote:Nowhere near as effective as one of these:
***
pic
***
I wonder how it would actually hold up against a bullet compared to kevlar? I remember seeing some demos of muskets being fired at armor where the armor would hold up. But against a modern day round I'm not sure.
User avatar
Patrick Degan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14847
Joined: 2002-07-15 08:06am
Location: Orleanian in exile

Post by Patrick Degan »

Veramocor wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:Nowhere near as effective as one of these:
***
pic
***
I wonder how it would actually hold up against a bullet compared to kevlar? I remember seeing some demos of muskets being fired at armor where the armor would hold up. But against a modern day round I'm not sure.
Iron helmet against a modern round, no chance. The design however provides a lot more coverage for the head than the new Army helmet.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln

People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House

Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
User avatar
fgalkin
Carvin' Marvin
Posts: 14557
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:51pm
Location: Land of the Mountain Fascists
Contact:

Post by fgalkin »

Vympel wrote:Fun fact regarding that legionary helmet: the reinforcing bar along the front was added after encountering barbarians equipped with falxes. I think.
You are corrrect. Falxes are evil.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Patrick Degan wrote:
Iron helmet against a modern round, no chance. The design however provides a lot more coverage for the head than the new Army helmet.
It might actually have a chance, against some pistol bullets, but not many and probably not 9x19mm. It also would stop many fragments.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
CmdrWilkens
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9093
Joined: 2002-07-06 01:24am
Location: Land of the Crabcake
Contact:

Re: 1st and 2nd Gen US K-Pots

Post by CmdrWilkens »

MKSheppard wrote:<snip>
There's a good reason that the new helmet is slightly smaller, Norwood said. For years, soldiers have complained that when they are lying on their stomachs firing rifles, their body armor rides up, tipping their helmet over their eyes. The new helmet was designed to address that problem.
<snip>
Let me say this here and now: it was the single biggest problem with the "old" helmet. I can deal with the lack of padding, I can deal with the weight and loss of most of my peripheral vision but whenever you assume the prone position it became damn near impossible to actually sight in.

In all honesty I would much rather go with the new helmet style and just remember to wear the yoke seciton of the flak jacket.
Image
SDNet World Nation: Wilkonia
Armourer of the WARWOLVES
ASVS Vet's Association (Class of 2000)
Former C.S. Strowbridge Gold Ego Award Winner
MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE

"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. "
-Kingdom of Heaven
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

I disliked the old style K-pots as they gave me flashbacks to WWII movies....

come to think of it I could just imagine a final countdown kind of simario where a US army detachment with modern equipment winds up slugging through the Ardannes on chistmas of 44.
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
Coyote
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 12464
Joined: 2002-08-23 01:20am
Location: The glorious Sun-Barge! Isis, Isis, Ra,Ra,Ra!
Contact:

Post by Coyote »

Our medics here are seeing a lot more cases of head and neck wounds among guys using the new helmets. Head and neck wounds being nothing you want to play with, I opted to keep my old style Kevlar.

We also do not fight from the prone in this conflict-- things move too fas to be wasting time getting up and dowm. We kneel behind whatever cover is available-- cars, low walls which are in abundance here, etc.

THe 'advantages' the new helmet offers has not proven to offset the dangers in an urban environment...
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Post Reply