Byss Destruction Question

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-11-17 04:17pm

Can anyone here who has read the second half of Empire's End provide the reaction the NR and the heroes had to Byss going bye-bye?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-17 04:29pm

Chewies said something like "Long Live the Republic."

They gave a brief Epilogue that with the destruction of Byss and the end of Palpatine, that they could begin rebuilding.

Not much more was given beyond that.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-17 04:32pm

Much of the rest is basically taken care of by Crimson Empire and Crimson Empire II: Council of Blood.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-11-17 04:44pm

So 17 billion people(IIRC) die, and the reaction is 'Fuck 'em for being pawns of Palpatine'?

This is the general impression I got, but I wanted to make sure that they really were that callous.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-11-17 04:49pm

consequences wrote:So 17 billion people(IIRC) die, and the reaction is 'Fuck 'em for being pawns of Palpatine'?

This is the general impression I got, but I wanted to make sure that they really were that callous.

Much like your reaction to Alderaan, if that's what you're driving at.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-17 04:51pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
consequences wrote:So 17 billion people(IIRC) die, and the reaction is 'Fuck 'em for being pawns of Palpatine'?

This is the general impression I got, but I wanted to make sure that they really were that callous.
Much like your reaction to Alderaan, if that's what you're driving at.

You do grasp NOT to actually transfer thoughts of one debate to another topic, right?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-17 05:44pm

Sucks, but you gotta admit, people here do it quite often. ; P

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-17 05:47pm

Kurgan wrote:Sucks, but you gotta admit, people here do it quite often. ; P

I personally don't care, it's against the rules and something I enforce when I see it regardless.

Keeping one's argument in one's topic is the reason we have it since otherwise we would have flamewars in everyone's topic, because at some point someone has had a disagreement with someone else.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-11-17 05:51pm

They were acting as a base for a planet buster. I think relief that no more worlds would be destroyed would be the dominate emotion at the time.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2004-11-17 08:34pm

The destruction of Byss occurs on the very last illustrated page of Empire's End; there is absolutely no depiction of any reaction on the part of the leadership or general population of the New Republic. The only commen on the world's annihilation is Chewbacca's acclamation "Long live the New Republic!" Aside from that, no response has been documented on the subject of Byss's fate; it is entirely possible that the majority of the galaxy never even learned of the fact, remote as the world was. There is certainly no reason that the leadership of the New Republic would even know the size of Byss's population. Only General Skywalker, General Solo, and Councilor Organa Solo among the New Republic's leading figures had ever even so much as set foot on Byss; the Dark Empire Sourcebook describes the nearly mythical status of the world.

PUBLIUS

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-11-17 08:45pm

Publius wrote:The destruction of Byss occurs on the very last illustrated page of Empire's End; there is absolutely no depiction of any reaction on the part of the leadership or general population of the New Republic. The only commen on the world's annihilation is Chewbacca's acclamation "Long live the New Republic!" Aside from that, no response has been documented on the subject of Byss's fate; it is entirely possible that the majority of the galaxy never even learned of the fact, remote as the world was. There is certainly no reason that the leadership of the New Republic would even know the size of Byss's population. Only General Skywalker, General Solo, and Councilor Organa Solo among the New Republic's leading figures had ever even so much as set foot on Byss; the Dark Empire Sourcebook describes the nearly mythical status of the world.

PUBLIUS

So Luke, Leia, and any other Jedi around would undoubtedly know that a crapload of people just died, but the NR as a whole knows nothing more than the fact that the Emperor's gone, and there's no hard information on the Jedi's reactions.

I've only got the first half of Empire's End, is the impression I have that the ending was horribly rushed correct?

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-11-17 10:14pm

Publius wrote:The destruction of Byss occurs on the very last illustrated page of Empire's End; there is absolutely no depiction of any reaction on the part of the leadership or general population of the New Republic. The only commen on the world's annihilation is Chewbacca's acclamation "Long live the New Republic!"

I bet that's what Tarkin was thinking when he blew Aldie up, just replace NR with "Empire."

Only General Skywalker, General Solo, and Councilor Organa Solo among the New Republic's leading figures had ever even so much as set foot on Byss; the Dark Empire Sourcebook describes the nearly mythical status of the world.

But SoDwise, someone apparently found out enough about the planet to write that entry in the DESB.

Rogue 9 wrote:Much like your reaction to Alderaan, if that's what you're driving at.

I'm consistent. Since I already decided Alderaan and Hiroshima weren't particularly evil, and that they have strategic value and meant to end a more destructive war. The same logic can go for Byss, and it helps that Byss was supposed to be an accident anyway.

Only people on their moral high-horse, like the NR and you, may have some thinking to do.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-17 10:15pm

Knock it the fuck off. Can you two not destroy another thread, please?

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-11-17 10:25pm

I'm not particularly trying to pick a fight. I just made my point and that's that. Even if Rogue 9 decides to pick a fight, I won't respond to him. Happy?

The last time, it all blew up because I made the awful mistake of voicing a brief thought on the RA. Sigh...

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2004-11-17 11:38pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:But SoDwise, someone apparently found out enough about the planet to write that entry in the DESB.

Even if one treats the Dark Empire Sourcebook as being an "in universe" document (it is in fact narrated by a third-person omniscient narrator), this is insignificant. There is no information as to who the "author" would be, or when the document were written; it could very well have been written ten thousand years later after the entire Imperial archives have been declassified in entirety. There is no reason to believe that the galaxy at large or even its senior leadership would have any idea as to the population of Byss; indeed, the only people who would have any clue would be Imperial Intelligence, which was responsible for establishing the world in the first place.

PUBLIUS

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-11-18 01:59am

Publius wrote:Even if one treats the Dark Empire Sourcebook as being an "in universe" document

Considering how most of the other Sourcebooks I know are narrated by In-Universe people (mostly Arhul Hextrophon and his lackeys), I won't be immediately certain this one was not "in-universe" just because they didn't add an Arhul Hextrophon letter or write incriminating things like "Alliance Editor's Note" (DSTC).

(it is in fact narrated by a third-person omniscient narrator),

This faulty diagram is the work of an omniscent narrator? Umm...

There is no information as to who the "author" would be, or when the document were written; it could very well have been written ten thousand years later after the entire Imperial archives have been declassified in entirety.

So, in ten thousand years, they hadn't seen through the deception of Alderaan's "Shieldless, Defenceless Claim"? The entire Imperial archives have been declassified and they still think the above diagram is correct? In a one volume work of that time period, they would choose not to cover that rather important period of DEII, the actual execution of Operation Shadowhand. That's kind of like a one-volume WWII work that begins in 1939 and cuts off in 1942. Possible, but strange.

Based on its choice of cutoff (right in the middle of the Dark Empire campaign) and the mistakes, SoDwise, it is most likely a in-universe, at the time document.

Considering the NR didn't plan on killing Byss back then, I think it is most likely that after Luke (who was allowed into so many of the Emperor's secrets that he can get the MCP codes) came back, he made a report of the population of Byss. Why would they need to try to hide it? This is, to them, another of the Emperor's evil plots. They should write it out and let it be known how many people the Emperor got onto his orb. Evil, evil Palpy.

But then, History is not my profession.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-18 01:51pm

Shieldless defense claim?

Wait, is it being implied that the Alderaan Shield is only fan conjecture, rather than canon?

Or is it some confusion over "We have no weapons" (ANH onscreen dialouge) and "Vader knew their defenses were as good as any in the Empire" (novel)?? Confused.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-11-18 02:20pm

Kurgan wrote:Shieldless defense claim?

Wait, is it being implied that the Alderaan Shield is only fan conjecture, rather than canon?

Or is it some confusion over "We have no weapons" (ANH onscreen dialouge) and "Vader knew their defenses were as good as any in the Empire" (novel)?? Confused.

Oh, he likes to claim that the fact of a shield makes Alderaan a legitimate military target.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-18 02:34pm

Both of you I will lock and start deleting your shit if you start.

Take your fucking petty vendetta out of here...this applies to both because you're bringing up SHIT FROM OTHER DEBATES.

You both want to keep debating who destroyed and why...make a thread.

Do I make myself clear, dumbfucks

?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-18 04:16pm

I hope you weren't talking about me there GR, I had a legitimate question. If it's just referring to that past debate, then nevermind.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-18 04:43pm

Kurgan wrote:I hope you weren't talking about me there GR, I had a legitimate question. If it's just referring to that past debate, then nevermind.

No, like you said. It's a Legit question.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-11-18 05:29pm

Also, in the grand scheme of things, 17 billion isn't THAT many in the SW universe.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-11-18 07:11pm

Apologies in advance for bringing up Alderaan, but, in the grand scheme of the galaxy, the 2 billion on that planet isn't that much either....

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-11-18 09:59pm

Kurgan wrote:Shieldless defense claim?

Wait, is it being implied that the Alderaan Shield is only fan conjecture, rather than canon?

Or is it some confusion over "We have no weapons" (ANH onscreen dialouge) and "Vader knew their defenses were as good as any in the Empire" (novel)?? Confused.

I don't intend to join into the fray here, but this is what he meant:

Dark Empire Sourcebook, [i]Chapter Nine: Equipment[/i] wrote:Notes On Planets: A typical habitable planet has a structural rating of 10D-20D (Death Star scale). Alderaan had no shields of any kind, so it was utterly vaporized. A shielded planet that is overcome by a superlaser may "merely" have its entire surface burned off or split into several pieces. Note that planets don't have to be destroyed to be rendered uninhabitable.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-11-19 01:15am

Rogue 9 wrote:Oh, he likes to claim that the fact of a shield makes Alderaan a legitimate military target.

Come on, both of you had been in our last debate. What is indisputable is that the officials claim that there is no shield, and trying to grab the Morality of Alderaan debate is just a red herring.

I'd prefer not to have to fight Morality again in the near future. Please, can we call a truce at least until the last thread where we fought slides out of sight in Page 1 and 2?

EDIT: In case it wasn't explicit enough before, I now believe I've stated as unambigiously as I can I don't want any part of a New Morality thread in the near future, much less in this thread.