Associated Press wrote:Pentagon To Cut Boy Scouts From Bases
November 16, 2004
CHICAGO - The Pentagon has agreed to warn military bases worldwide not to directly sponsor Boy Scout troops, partially resolving claims that the government has engaged in religious discrimination by supporting a group that requires members to believe in God.
The settlement announced Monday is part of a series of legal challenges in recent years over how closely the government should be aligned with the Boy Scouts of America, a venerable organization that boasts a membership of more than 3.2 million members.
Civil liberties advocates have set their sights on the organization's policies because the group bans openly gay scout leaders and compels members to swear an oath of duty to God. The ACLU believes that direct government sponsorship of such a program amounts to discrimination.
"If our Constitution's promise of religious liberty is to be a reality, the government should not be administering religious oaths or discriminating based on religious beliefs," said ACLU attorney Adam Schwartz.
The Pentagon said it has long had a rule against sponsorship of non-federal organizations and denied the rule had been violated. But it agreed to send a message to posts worldwide warning them not to sponsor Boy Scout troops or other such groups.
The rule does not prevent service members from leading Scout troops unofficially on their own time, and Scouts will still be able to hold meetings on areas of military bases where civilian organizations are allowed to hold events.
The settlement does not resolve other ACLU claims involving government spending that benefits the Boy Scouts, such as money used to prepare a Virginia military base for the Boy Scout Jamboree and grants used by state and local governments to benefit the Boy Scouts, Schwartz said.
He said the Pentagon spends $2 million every year to prepare the Virginia base for the jamboree, held once every four years. He said the Defense Department also makes annual allocations of $100,000 to support Boy Scout units on military bases overseas and $100,000 to improve Boy Scout properties, such as summer camps.
Attorney Marcia Berman, who represented the Defense Department, declined to comment on the settlement Monday. But Justice Department spokesman Charles Miller said the message that will be sent to bases represents "a clarification of an existing rule that DOD personnel cannot be involved in an official capacity."
The original ACLU lawsuit named as defendants the Department of Defense, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the Chicago Board of Education. The schools settled, agreeing not to engage in official sponsorship of scouting activities.
When I was in the Boy Scouts our yearly local "jamboree" was held on the Rock Island Arsenal. I also stayed at a couple of different military bases when traveling with the Boy Scouts. We were even allowed to use the base facilities like the mess, bowling alley and theater. Of course this was all back before the Boy Scouts officially became a bunch of assholes and took the stands that they have.
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Civil liberties advocates have set their sights on the organization's policies because the group bans openly gay scout leaders and compels members to swear an oath of duty to God.
I don't remember anything like this from when I considered joining scouts...how long has this been the rule?
Civil liberties advocates have set their sights on the organization's policies because the group bans openly gay scout leaders and compels members to swear an oath of duty to God.
I don't remember anything like this from when I considered joining scouts...how long has this been the rule?
I believe within the last four to five years, they went heavily Christian and anti gay.
I distinctly remember a few articles about their whole viewpoint on any gay members.
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I remember those being the rules when I was in scouts -
but our little troop was basically a gang from the slums, so we didnt care
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It's been in the works for awhile. There was an atheist Scout that got booted and then in a few places there were Gay Scout Masters that got the boot. Then it went to include Gay Scouts.
Originally it was just in local jurisdictions but as people made a big stink about it the Boy Scouts more or less made this kind of discrimination official policy nationwide. However, there are a few areas that don't listen to national hierarchy and still have Gay Scout Masters etc... but officialy the Boy Scouts interpret the morals part as not being Gay and since a Scout is supposed to be reverent he can't exactly be an Atheist.
I don't know how this effects the Explorers which are part of the Boy Scouts but tend to be more focused on specific things. Plus the boys and girls are usually older.
By the pricking of my thumb,
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Civil liberties advocates have set their sights on the organization's policies because the group bans openly gay scout leaders and compels members to swear an oath of duty to God.
I don't remember anything like this from when I considered joining scouts...how long has this been the rule?
I believe within the last four to five years, they went heavily Christian and anti gay.
I distinctly remember a few articles about their whole viewpoint on any gay members.
So...the Boy Scouts can't hold the Next National Jamboree at Ft. A.P. Hill?
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"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
to be fair, its the organization heirarchy, often not individual troops.
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"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
It says that bases can't sponsor troops and I would guess activities. I'm not sure it means that Boy Scout activities can't be on military bases but it is a lot more unlikely that the Boy Scouts will get to do them for free anymore. Although, I think if someone wanted to push things they could probably even block the Boy Scout even if they paid.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
It's about fucking time that the military told the BSA to fuck themselves. I'll bet they'll still sell them surplus equipment at massive discounts, though.
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Enforcer Talen wrote:Ive *been* to ap hill for my annual training
fun place.
I was there for the (Drum roll, please) 1997 National Jamboree. I had fun.
As for "surplus equipment" sold a discount price, The only ex-military equipment I can think of that we ever used were e-tools (this was when I lived at Camp Lejune, and the base had two little one-story buildings probably of WW2 era used for Scout/youth activities), and extremely crappy tents at summer camp.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Canadian Scouting went the way of politicial correctness and
is now a dying organisation, selling off it's camping grounds to make
ends meet with a collapsing scouting base.
Meanwhile the BSA is uncompromising, and they're still a healthy
organisation.
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Serious question here. The BSA is uncompromising on not
allowing homosexuals into any position of power, to prevent
abuse of their charges; yet they're attacked for discrimination.
Meanwhile, the Catholic Church is extremely lax about getting rid of
pedophiliac priests, and they're attacked for allowing child molesters
to continue their jobs...
You can't have it both ways, people.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Jesus Christ Shep. You're definitely going to regret that.
How about this: homosexuals are an arbitrarily different kind of person from heterosexuals. Paedophiles rape little kids.
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MKSheppard wrote:Serious question here. The BSA is uncompromising on not
allowing homosexuals into any position of power, to prevent
abuse of their charges; yet they're attacked for discrimination.
Meanwhile, the Catholic Church is extremely lax about getting rid of
pedophiliac priests, and they're attacked for allowing child molesters
to continue their jobs...
You can't have it both ways, people.
Because as we all know homosexuality and paedophilia are the same thing
MKSheppard wrote:Serious question here. The BSA is uncompromising on not
allowing homosexuals into any position of power, to prevent
abuse of their charges; yet they're attacked for discrimination.
Meanwhile, the Catholic Church is extremely lax about getting rid of
pedophiliac priests, and they're attacked for allowing child molesters
to continue their jobs...
You can't have it both ways, people.
You understand that homosexuals are not pedophiles, even though there are pedophiles that prey on their own sex exclusively, right?
Lonestar wrote:I was there for the (Drum roll, please) 1997 National Jamboree. I had fun.
Me too. Damn, we were on the same base. Imagine that.
Anyhow, shows how bad I am: I was thrown with the "oath to God" thing, not remembering that. Until I actually remembered the scout oath: "On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty, to God and my country..."
Guess that's why I never made Eagle.
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The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
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Frank Hipper wrote:You understand that homosexuals are not pedophiles, even though there are pedophiles that prey on their own sex exclusively, right?
You will find that with Shep, any question that has to be started "You understand" is probably aiming too high...
Shep: What the fuck shit are you on? You've just managed to throw out a massive fucking insult at a large portion of this board and lump in with it an extra large helping of bullshit and bigotry....you're surpassing even your own high standards in assholishness.
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I don't understand how they can be so homophobic, and yet enforce the wearing of neckerchiefs and hold annual "jamborees".
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MKSheppard wrote:Serious question here. The BSA is uncompromising on not allowing homosexuals into any position of power, to prevent abuse of their charges; yet they're attacked for discrimination.
Meanwhile, the Catholic Church is extremely lax about getting rid of pedophiliac priests, and they're attacked for allowing child molesters to continue their jobs...
You can't have it both ways, people.
You little homophobic piece of shit.
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I don't remember anything like this from when I considered joining scouts...how long has this been the rule?
