Iran Won't Enrich Uranium

[Stofsk]

Couldn't they supply their nuclear power needs

Iran have some of the world's largest and cheapest oilfields, they have no nuclear power need.

I'm rather angry now.

Do some fucking homework dipshit. When Iran was the US' ally they were told (by the US) that they needed to construct 30 nuclear reactors to sustain their population which at the time was around 34,000,000. Their population is currently around 25,000,000 and their economy is almost totally based on oil exports. There's no fucking way they can sustain their energy requirements with oil while still keeping their economy going.

What happened to following the US' advice?

[BoredShirtless]

What happened to following the US' advice?

The Revolution happened.

[Spyder]

What happened to following the US' advice?

The puppet (the Shah) got overthrown. Interesting note, Iran had a democratically elected government prior to 1953 when they were removed and the US installed the Shah; yet another brutal middle east dictator. The brutal dictatorship and the following Islamic revolution leaving Iran in the hands of fundies is a direct result of American interference.

[Plekhanov]

The puppet (the Shah) got overthrown. Interesting note, Iran had a democratically elected government prior to 1953 when they were removed and the US installed the Shah; yet another brutal middle east dictator. The brutal dictatorship and the following Islamic revolution leaving Iran in the hands of fundies is a direct result of American interference.

Now Spyder hasn’t this been explained to you yet, don’t go bringing up all that stuff about who overthrew which democratically elected government and installed a brutal, corrupt dictatorship in its place, that stuff doesn't matter, don’t you realise that Iranian history started November 4th 1979?

All the stuff we did to the Iranian’s directly or through our puppet terrorist regime is irrelevant, the only things that matter are that they took some westerners hostage and call the US and the UK the Great and Little Satan.

The inconvenient fact that it’s almost entirely the fault of our imperial meddling that this state of affairs came into being is irrelevant, just remember they are bad, we are good and Iranian history started November 4th 1979.

[MKSheppard]

Linky

A 14 year old boy is sentenced to 85 lashes for breaking his Ramadan fast

A 14 year old boy died on Thursday, November 11th, after having received 85 lashes; according to the ruling of the Mullah judge of the public circuit court in the town of Sanandadj he was guilty of breaking his fast during the month of Ramadan.

The Kurdish site Rojeh´heh Lât reports that the young man´s identity has not been disclosed. He was scheduled for burial on Saturday, November 13th (after 3 days at the local morgue), in the cemetery of Beheshteh Mohammadi in Sanandadj. However due to the public´s realization of the events surrounding the boy´s circumstances the cemetery was stormed [in protest] and his burial did not take place.

According to informed sources, supervisors have instructed that the burial take place in the presence of his closest relatives, surveyed by security forces.

[Spyder]

The puppet (the Shah) got overthrown. Interesting note, Iran had a democratically elected government prior to 1953 when they were removed and the US installed the Shah; yet another brutal middle east dictator. The brutal dictatorship and the following Islamic revolution leaving Iran in the hands of fundies is a direct result of American interference.

Now Spyder hasn’t this been explained to you yet, don’t go bringing up all that stuff about who overthrew which democratically elected government and installed a brutal, corrupt dictatorship in its place, that stuff doesn't matter, don’t you realise that Iranian history started November 4th 1979?

All the stuff we did to the Iranian’s directly or through our puppet terrorist regime is irrelevant, the only things that matter are that they took some westerners hostage and call the US and the UK the Great and Little Satan.

The inconvenient fact that it’s almost entirely the fault of our imperial meddling that this state of affairs came into being is irrelevant, just remember they are bad, we are good and Iranian history started November 4th 1979.

*chuckle*

Oh, sorry about that. Someone's not passing on memos.

[Plekhanov]

<snip>

Are you trying to set some kind of a record for the most red herrings posted by a individual chickenhawk in a single thread over a 24 hour period here or something Shep?

We all know the current Iranian regime don’t exactly have a spotless record as regards human rights (just like the terrorist regime we imposed on them didn’t) but what the fuck has whipping boys to death got to do with nuclear weapons?

[BoredShirtless]

We all know the current Iranian regime don’t exactly have a spotless record as regards human rights (just like the terrorist regime we imposed on them didn’t) but what the fuck has whipping boys to death got to do with nuclear weapons?

Shep is relating whipping boys to launching nukes by the "scaredy cat" relationship:

Whipping boys + insecurity complex = Iran is the EV1L!! OMGGG!!!!111Preempt111

[Mange]

We all know the current Iranian regime don’t exactly have a spotless record as regards human rights (just like the terrorist regime we imposed on them didn’t) but what the fuck has whipping boys to death got to do with nuclear weapons?

Shep is relating whipping boys to launching nukes by the "scaredy cat" relationship:

Whipping boys + insecurity complex = Iran is the EV1L!! OMGGG!!!!111Preempt111

You are so much full of shit. While Shep's rambling don't make much sense, you don't make any sense at all. How do you suggest Iran should be dealt with? Patting Khameni's head (and the heads of the other mullahs) and saying good boy? Get real.

[BoredShirtless]

We all know the current Iranian regime don’t exactly have a spotless record as regards human rights (just like the terrorist regime we imposed on them didn’t) but what the fuck has whipping boys to death got to do with nuclear weapons?

Shep is relating whipping boys to launching nukes by the "scaredy cat" relationship:

Whipping boys + insecurity complex = Iran is the EV1L!! OMGGG!!!!111Preempt111

You are so much full of shit. While Shep's rambling don't make much sense, you don't make any sense at all. How do you suggest Iran should be dealt with? Patting Khameni's head (and the heads of the other mullahs) and saying good boy? Get real.

This is how I would deal with Iran if I was President of the United States:
1. Apologise for all the decades of interference and supporting Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war
2. Wait for Iran to accept apology
3. Slowly normalise diplomatic relations, be a fair broker in Israel/Palestinian negotiations
4. Invite Irans soccer team over for a game

[Spyder]

This is how I would deal with Iran if I was President of the United States:
1. Apologise for all the decades of interference and supporting Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war
2. Wait for Iran to accept apology
3. Slowly normalise diplomatic relations, be a fair broker in Israel/Palestinian negotiations
4. Invite Irans soccer team over for a game

Beefing up textile imports wouldn't be a bad idea too.

[HemlockGrey]

This is how I would deal with Iran if I was President of the United States:
1. Apologise for all the decades of interference and supporting Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war
2. Wait for Iran to accept apology
3. Slowly normalise diplomatic relations, be a fair broker in Israel/Palestinian negotiations
4. Invite Irans soccer team over for a game

Aside from the lunatic idea that anyone in the United States would actually care about soccer, I have to question your thought process here. Propping up a psychotic dictatorship is bad, but becoming fast friends with one and inviting them over to have a pint is fine?

I don't think we ought to be making friends with any loony fundementalist authoritian governments unless we absolutely have to. And don't bring up Saudi Arabia, I'm not terribly thrilled about that, either.

Frankly, I think we simply ought to stay out of Iranian affairs, with the notable exception of keeping The Bomb out of the mullah's hands and perhaps secretively funding secular or semisecular protest groups. Aside from that, I see no reason why containment is not an option.

If the Iranian people are able to one day topple the mullahs and establish a secular, stable society, then perhaps an apology would be in order.

[Mange]

This is how I would deal with Iran if I was President of the United States:
1. Apologise for all the decades of interference and supporting Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war

This is Cold War politics. We live in a different time now and I see absolutely no reason to make an apology to a fundamentalistic state such as Iran. I guess you're familiar with the Iran hostage crisis 1979 to 1981, right and that Ayatollah Khomeini initiated the conflict between the U.S. and Iran by his constant anti-American rhetoric (a.o. referring to it as the Great Satan)? As I see it, Iran had it coming.

2. Wait for Iran to accept apology

You got to be kidding.

3. Slowly normalise diplomatic relations, be a fair broker in Israel/Palestinian negotiations

This is the only point in which I somewhat agree with you. I understand why there aren't any diplomatic relations, but I agree with you in regards to the Israel/Palestinian conflict, even if this doesn't have anything to do with this issue (yes, yes I know, all the problems in the Middle East is because of this).

4. Invite Irans soccer team over for a game

I guess this is some kind of stupid joke so I won't answer it, but I hope you are aware of that it was a female Iranian athlete that during the summer olympics refused to meet an Israeli athlete and was awarded by the Iranian government (against the Olympic spirit). So, who should take the first step? All the rogue nations must be treated as if they are equipped with WMDs as they can't be trusted. Appeasement policies always fail, as your country's history show, Bored Shirtless, or have you forgotten that fact?

[BoredShirtless]

Aside from the lunatic idea that anyone in the United States would actually care about soccer,

Me me me. You don't know how a relationship works, do you.

I have to question your thought process here. Propping up a psychotic dictatorship is bad, but becoming fast friends with one and inviting them over to have a pint is fine?

Iran is not pyschotic; they ARE however pissed with all the shit you put them through. So apologise and normalise the relationship; don't give them a reason to hate you. Make them like you, and if you stop fucking around and pull out from the rest of the ME, Iran will slowly change for the better.

News flash: Iranians are human beings too. They would rather live in peace then in fear of your country, just like you and me. They don't want to die and they don't want to go to war. Just like you and me.

It boils down to fear. They fear you. You fear them. Reach out with the Olive Branch, get the fuck out of the ME, and you'll slowly see them settle down.

I don't think we ought to be making friends with any loony fundementalist authoritian governments unless we absolutely have to. And don't bring up Saudi Arabia, I'm not terribly thrilled about that, either.

They aren't loony. Just afraid and full of hate. It's those two things which keeps them in power by the way.

Frankly, I think we simply ought to stay out of Iranian affairs, with the notable exception of keeping The Bomb out of the mullah's hands and perhaps secretively funding secular or semisecular protest groups. Aside from that, I see no reason why containment is not an option.

"secretively funding secular or semisecular protest groups"

Yep, that's BOUND to work!

If the Iranian people are able to one day topple the mullahs and establish a secular, stable society, then perhaps an apology would be in order.

No. You wouldn't be apologising to the Mullahs; the apology is to Iran. Everyone in Iran.

[BoredShirtless]

This is Cold War politics. We live in a different time now and I see absolutely no reason to make an apology to a fundamentalistic state such as Iran. I guess you're familiar with the Iran hostage crisis 1979 to 1981, right and that Ayatollah Khomeini initiated the conflict between the U.S. and Iran by his constant anti-American rhetoric (a.o. referring to it as the Great Satan)? As I see it, Iran had it coming.

Clueless.

2. Wait for Iran to accept apology

You got to be kidding.

Paranoid.

3. Slowly normalise diplomatic relations, be a fair broker in Israel/Palestinian negotiations

This is the only point in which I somewhat agree with you. I understand why there aren't any diplomatic relations, but I agree with you in regards to the Israel/Palestinian conflict, even if this doesn't have anything to do with this issue (yes, yes I know, all the problems in the Middle East is because of this).

Not because of, but heavily related.

4. Invite Irans soccer team over for a game

I guess this is some kind of stupid joke so I won't answer it,

They love soccer; this is only a joke for people who have zero knowledge of Iran and its people.

but I hope you are aware of that it was a female Iranian athlete that during the summer olympics refused to meet an Israeli athlete and was awarded by the Iranian government (against the Olympic spirit).

Red Herring, blah blah.

So, who should take the first step? All the rogue nations must be treated as if they are equipped with WMDs as they can't be trusted. Appeasement policies always fail, as your country's history show, Bored Shirtless, or have you forgotten that fact?

Clueless again. And more Red Herrings.

[HemlockGrey]

Me me me. You don't know how a relationship works, do you.

Thickheaded.

Iran is not pyschotic; they ARE however pissed with all the shit you put them through. So apologise and normalise the relationship; don't give them a reason to hate you. Make them like you, and if you stop fucking around and pull out from the rest of the ME, Iran will slowly change for the better.

News flash: Iranians are human beings too. They would rather live in peace then in fear of your country, just like you and me. They don't want to die and they don't want to go to war. Just like you and me.

It boils down to fear. They fear you. You fear them. Reach out with the Olive Branch, get the fuck out of the ME, and you'll slowly see them settle down.

Incomprehension.

They aren't loony. Just afraid and full of hate. It's those two things which keeps them in power by the way.

Incomprehension.

"secretively funding secular or semisecular protest groups"

Yep, that's BOUND to work!

Clueless.

No. You wouldn't be apologising to the Mullahs; the apology is to Iran. Everyone in Iran.

Incomprehension.

Hmm...not quite as satsfying as it looked. Let me try the traditional way.

Me me me. You don't know how a relationship works, do you.

That was supposed to be a bit of light humor, but evidently the concept of levity is foreign to you.

Iran is not pyschotic; they ARE however pissed with all the shit you put them through. So apologise and normalise the relationship; don't give them a reason to hate you. Make them like you, and if you stop fucking around and pull out from the rest of the ME, Iran will slowly change for the better.

Oh, please, like the mullahs will ever view the United State as anything but an enemy. They derive their power from Islamic fundementalism, and America is Islamofascist enemy #1. Unless they want to risk alienating their only base of support, they won't be friendly with America, and we can't compromise with Islamic fundementalists, period.

News flash: Iranians are human beings too. They would rather live in peace then in fear of your country, just like you and me. They don't want to die and they don't want to go to war. Just like you and me.

This is not about the Iranian people. This is about the mullahs, and, like I said, America should not be friends with Islamic fundementalists.

Yep, that's BOUND to work!

What? Supporting student organizations determined to secularize the government is better than installing a brutal dictator, wouldn't you say?

No. You wouldn't be apologising to the Mullahs; the apology is to Iran. Everyone in Iran.

Which I would be fine with. I would be fine with any attempt to reach out to the Iranian people as a whole; however, we simply can't deal with the mullahs and we can't support or be friends with their government.

[Mange]

but I hope you are aware of that it was a female Iranian athlete that during the summer olympics refused to meet an Israeli athlete and was awarded by the Iranian government (against the Olympic spirit).

Red Herring, blah blah.

So, who should take the first step? All the rogue nations must be treated as if they are equipped with WMDs as they can't be trusted. Appeasement policies always fail, as your country's history show, Bored Shirtless, or have you forgotten that fact?

Clueless again. And more Red Herrings.

BS, it was YOU who first brought up the diplomatic issue. My example with the summer olympics was made to illustrate the Iranian mindset. As for the other passage that you called a Red Herring, it's a perfectly valid statement in this discussion. All the activities in Iran connected with its nuclear program must be monitored and verified. If you fail to acknowledge this, then you're an idiot.

[BoredShirtless]

Me me me. You don't know how a relationship works, do you.

That was supposed to be a bit of light humor, but evidently the concept of levity is foreign to you.

Yeah right. Note to you: the next time you create a joke around a negative American stereotype, use some emoticons. Politics and jokes hardly mix anyway.

Iran is not pyschotic; they ARE however pissed with all the shit you put them through. So apologise and normalise the relationship; don't give them a reason to hate you. Make them like you, and if you stop fucking around and pull out from the rest of the ME, Iran will slowly change for the better.

Oh, please, like the mullahs will ever view the United State as anything but an enemy.

oh dear! Why is that, are Mullahs computer programs stuck in a never ending loop? Bwahahahaha! How ignorant and scared you are.

They derive their power from Islamic fundementalism,

And what powers Islamic fundementalism? Hmmmm?

and America is Islamofascist enemy #1.

And why is that? Do you wonder why America is public enemy #1? Does that interest you? Why not Switzerland? Or the Vatican? Why the USA?

Unless they want to risk alienating their only base of support, they won't be friendly with America, and we can't compromise with Islamic fundementalists, period.

You're again way of base: if you removed the Mullahs "reason" for being, they will lose their stranglehold on the people. You not talking to them, your imperlistic adventures in the ME, keeps the Mullahs in power!

News flash: Iranians are human beings too. They would rather live in peace then in fear of your country, just like you and me. They don't want to die and they don't want to go to war. Just like you and me.

This is not about the Iranian people.

Yes it is, because the Mullahs are Iranians too, and would rather live in peace and not be afraid of your country too. The Mullahs would rather go home to some Chelo Kebab or Fesenjan then to a bombed house.

This is about the mullahs, and, like I said, America should not be friends with Islamic fundementalists.

They are not as Fundy as you probably think. Anyway, America should listen to the eerie silence from the younger Iranians. The same Iranians who were calling out for reform before the Iraq invasion.

Put it together, this isn't rocket science.

Yep, that's BOUND to work!

What? Supporting student organizations determined to secularize the government is better than installing a brutal dictator, wouldn't you say?

Supporting student organisations! How do you propose to do that without the government knowing? And did it ever occur to you that interfering was what brought us here in the first place? Why must you always stick your nose in other peoples businesses?

[Mange]

VIENNA, Austria - Iran is using the last few days before it must stop all uranium enrichment to produce significant quantities of a gas that can be used to make nuclear weapons, diplomats said Friday.

Iran recently started producing uranium hexafluoride at its gas processing facilities in Isfahan, the diplomats told The Associated Press. When introduced into centrifuges and spun, the substance can be enriched into weapons-grade uranium that forms the core of nuclear warheads.

Iran last week agreed to suspend uranium enrichment and all related activities in a deal worked out with Britain, France, Germany and the European Union (news - web sites). The deal, which takes effect Monday, prohibits Iran from all uranium gas processing activities.

But the diplomats, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Tehran was exploiting the window until Monday to produce uranium hexafluoride at its Isfahan plant in central Iran.

Asked about quantities, one diplomat said "it's not little," but he declined to elaborate.

Iran has huge reserves of raw uranium and has announced plans to extract more than 40 tons a year.

That amount, converted to uranium hexafluoride and repeatedly spun in centrifuges, theoretically could yield more than 200 pounds of weapons-grade highly enriched uranium, enough for about five crude nuclear weapons.

Iranian officials say the Isfahan plant can convert more than 300 tons of uranium ore a year.

Iran is not prohibited from making uranium hexafluoride until the deal takes force. But its decision to carry out uranium processing right up to the freeze deadline was expected to disappoint the Europeans — and give the United States ammunition in its push to have the U.N. Security Council examine Tehran's nuclear activities.

Washington says Iran wants to enrich uranium to make weapons. Tehran says it is interested only in low-grade enriched uranium for nuclear power.

Iran announced suspension of enrichment last week, and the agency said it would police that commitment starting next week, ahead of the Nov. 25 IAEA board meeting.

Although the deal commits Iran to suspension only while a comprehensive aid agreement with the EU is finalized, the pledge reduced Washington's hopes of having the board of the International Atomic Energy Agency refer Iran to the Security Council when the board meets Thursday.

By opting to freeze — and not scrap — the program, Tehran has not dropped plans to run 50,000 centrifuges to enrich uranium for what it says will be the fuel requirements of a nuclear reactor to be finished next year.

It currently possesses less than 1,000 centrifuges. But even with 1,500 centrifuges, experts say, Iran would be able to make enough weapons-grade uranium for about a bomb a year.

Iran, meanwhile, dismissed as "baseless" remarks by Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) on its nuclear program, adding he should review his intelligence sources.

Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi was reacting to Powell's comments on claims by the Iranian dissident group, the National Council for Resistance in Iran, which alleged that Tehran was secretly running a program intended to produce nuclear weapons by next year.

Powell said Wednesday he had seen intelligence that partially confirmed the claim, including some indicating that Iran "had been actively working on delivery systems" for a nuclear weapon.

"There is no place for weapons of mass destruction in Iran`s defense doctrine," Asefi said, according to the official Islamic Republic News Agency.

Asefi suggested that U.S. officials "reconsider their intelligence sources."

On Thursday, Asefi dismissed the claims of the Iranian dissident group, which the United States and the European Union consider to be a terrorist organization.

"The claims are raised to destroy the positive atmosphere that resulted from the Paris agreement," Asefi said, referring to last week's accord on suspending uranium enrichment activities in return for British, French and German guarantees that Iran has the right to pursue a peaceful nuclear program.

Asefi said Friday that Powell's claims were "indicative of U.S. anger over Iran`s process of confidence-building and transparency" in its nuclear program, the official news agency reported.

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... ncy_iran_3

So, can Iran be trusted?

[Ma Deuce]

There is one other issue with Iran that everyone is conveniently forgetting: They are a proven sponsor of terrorist groups, including Palestinian groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. Where do you think Hezbollah got that aeriel drone they flew over Northern Israel a few weeks ago? Who do you think was actually operationg the drone?

Give me one good reason to trust a country that continues to fund and support terrorists?

[Mange]

There is one other issue with Iran that everyone is conveniently forgetting: They are a proven sponsor of terrorist groups, including Palestinian groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. Where do you think Hezbollah got that aeriel drone they flew over Northern Israel a few weeks ago? Who do you think was actually operationg the drone?

Give me one good reason to trust a country that continues to fund and support terrorists?

It was good that you brought up the Hezbollah connection. I think the position that BS assumes is quite dangerous and naive, on the other hand, being too hostile is also dangerous. Containment, monitoring and verification are the keys, as I see it right now, to make sure Iran follows its obligations.

[Falkenhayn]

It was good that you brought up the Hezbollah connection. I think the position that BS assumes is quite dangerous and naive, on the other hand, being too hostile is also dangerous. Containment, monitoring and verification are the keys, as I see it right now, to make sure Iran follows its obligations.

And my reply is that none of the above are valid solutions.

Nuclear Shields are impenetrable, as North Korea is displaying to a T. The Mullahcracy has will, capacity and means to make nuclear weapons. Iraq War II has shown them that the threat of Chemical and Biological weapons themselves are insufficient to deter an US invasion. Therefore, utilize your leverage, European dependancy on Middle Eastern oil coupled with a non-existant capability to force compliance through military means, in order to buy time.

The West must realize that they are negotiating from a position of weakness. They have no credible threat of force and the clock works against it. With the divide between the government and the people, sanctions are self defeating.

So what happens, assuming all of this is right?

[Beowulf]

The time is coming when the nuclear sheild is penetrable, due to advances in ways to shoot down delivery systems.

N. Korea isn't being protected entirely by it's nuclear weapons. It's also protected by it's ability to S. Korea into an economic basket case by shelling Seoul.