Vorlon battleship vs. ISD

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Durandal's points are all essentially correct. Just to add, there currently IS no more reliable example for Excalibur firepower than the ACTA Asteroid scene, despite the MANY efforts to discount that one.

No shit. Im just in debate with Elizar or former Dark Lord that did the explosion in RTN result solely from the beam. The fact that it hit a power matrix tells something but offcourse he ignores this because it gives nicer numbers if the explosion resulted solely from the beam. Allso he makes an absurd assumption that the beam was not fully operational in ACTA which does not have any basis of anykind.

He assumes that since it is untested they dont have a clue what it does, he allso assumes that it has some magical exotic component ALA ndf etc. that throws all calculations out of the window, that allso was an unsubstantiated claim.

Actually I think that RTN suffers from much of the same problems as The Die is cast. The firepower estimate claims seem to be largely based on the size of the so-called "shockwave" we see relative to the planet (and that "plume" that ejects up into the air.

I suggest either consulting with Ted C (on SB, who has done calcs on the scene), asking Brian Young and Babtech about it, or checking their "claims" with analysis concerning TDIC and what energy levels of the magnitude they claim would REALLY look like on a planet. Remember that in TDIC there are OTHER factors than the shockwaves concerning the visuals that make the "firepower" estimates derived from such questionable.

I think that the Power Matrix contributed a large part to the actual energy release, if it has to handle with energy coming from the planets core then its pretty reasonable to assume that when destroyed there would be an energy release. But somehow Elizar regards this as a baseless assumption

[Connor MacLeod]

No shit. Im just in debate with Elizar or former Dark Lord that did the explosion in RTN result solely from the beam. The fact that it hit a power matrix tells something but offcourse he ignores this because it gives nicer numbers if the explosion resulted solely from the beam. Allso he makes an absurd assumption that the beam was not fully operational in ACTA which does not have any basis of anykind.

He assumes that since it is untested they dont have a clue what it does, he allso assumes that it has some magical exotic component ALA ndf etc. that throws all calculations out of the window, that allso was an unsubstantiated claim.

Actually I think that RTN suffers from much of the same problems as The Die is cast. The firepower estimate claims seem to be largely based on the size of the so-called "shockwave" we see relative to the planet (and that "plume" that ejects up into the air.

I suggest either consulting with Ted C (on SB, who has done calcs on the scene), asking Brian Young and Babtech about it, or checking their "claims" with analysis concerning TDIC and what energy levels of the magnitude they claim would REALLY look like on a planet. Remember that in TDIC there are OTHER factors than the shockwaves concerning the visuals that make the "firepower" estimates derived from such questionable.

I think that the Power Matrix contributed a large part to the actual energy release, if it has to handle with energy coming from the planets core then its pretty reasonable to assume that when destroyed there would be an energy release. But somehow Elizar regards this as a baseless assumption

You mean how he disregards the low damage inflicted on the mine facility in "The Long Road", or the damage done to an inert object like an asteroid in A Call to Arms?

Let me guess, the technomage dissipated the energy of the main gun (When Galen himself using many layers of the so called "shadow skin" defense superior to the technomages own shielding - was nearly killed by a fraction of the 2 500 MT nukes Sheridan set off in Z'Ha'Dum? When he would have been killed had he not had countless obstacles in front of him to absorb the energy, and even then was mortally wounded despite the multiple layers of so called skin?)

I'm sure they argue the Main gun wasn't fully functional, for that matter

Have they trotted otu "Each Night I dream of home" where teh so called 60 km Drakh mothership was obliterated in a single blast, too?

The term "accurately quantified figures" appears to be beyond some of them. The best tehy can dig up is "I can't get any numbers from this, but I'm pretty sure it would be a large one." They almost NEVER use a quantifiable incident (mostly because none of the accurately quantifiable incidents help them )

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Connor: I notice that you know how the VCD main gun debate goes. However from The Long Road its hard to get accurate numbers since it must be taken into account that the village was in close vicinity to the mine.

However the asteroid in ACTA gives pretty clear numbers, however offcourse they try to make the unsubstantiated claim that the gun was not fully operational.

Well offcourse they have used the 60km Drakh ship scene, offcourse conveniently ignoring that the ship blew up only after the shot had allready hit the ship.

Offcourse they try to draw the most illogical conclusions and assumptions from the RTN scene and from the ACTA scene because that helps their imaginationary numbers for the main gun.

[His Divine Shadow]

Let me guess, the technomage dissipated the energy of the main gun (When Galen himself using many layers of the so called "shadow skin" defense superior to the technomages own shielding - was nearly killed by a fraction of the 2 500 MT nukes Sheridan set off in Z'Ha'Dum? When he would have been killed had he not had countless obstacles in front of him to absorb the energy, and even then was mortally wounded despite the multiple layers of so called skin?)

Don't forget that he also was running away, and jumping into a deeep hole and also shielded by possibly thousands of other socalled machine people, who had some lowlevel shields possibly.

[Connor MacLeod]

Connor: I notice that you know how the VCD main gun debate goes. However from The Long Road its hard to get accurate numbers since it must be taken into account that the village was in close vicinity to the mine.

What difference does that make? The Main gun isn't a scalable weapon - it takes nearly all the energy the ship generates JUST to fire that one shot!

I agree its hard to quantify, but we're not exactly talking super-high levels of firepower either.

However the asteroid in ACTA gives pretty clear numbers, however offcourse they try to make the unsubstantiated claim that the gun was not fully operational.

Err... since when do you test something that isn't fully operational? And if its not fully operational, how would it possibly work?

Well offcourse they have used the 60km Drakh ship scene, offcourse conveniently ignoring that the ship blew up only after the shot had allready hit the ship.

Right. Using non-inert objects as proof of firepower, and not evne being able to produce reliable numbers at that. Typical.

Offcourse they try to draw the most illogical conclusions and assumptions from the RTN scene and from the ACTA scene because that helps their imaginationary numbers for the main gun.

Again deriving vague estimates from a non-inert target.

[Connor MacLeod]

No shit. Im just in debate with Elizar or former Dark Lord that did the explosion in RTN result solely from the beam. The fact that it hit a power matrix tells something but offcourse he ignores this because it gives nicer numbers if the explosion resulted solely from the beam. Allso he makes an absurd assumption that the beam was not fully operational in ACTA which does not have any basis of anykind.

He assumes that since it is untested they dont have a clue what it does, he allso assumes that it has some magical exotic component ALA ndf etc. that throws all calculations out of the window, that allso was an unsubstantiated claim.

Actually I think that RTN suffers from much of the same problems as The Die is cast. The firepower estimate claims seem to be largely based on the size of the so-called "shockwave" we see relative to the planet (and that "plume" that ejects up into the air.

I suggest either consulting with Ted C (on SB, who has done calcs on the scene), asking Brian Young and Babtech about it, or checking their "claims" with analysis concerning TDIC and what energy levels of the magnitude they claim would REALLY look like on a planet. Remember that in TDIC there are OTHER factors than the shockwaves concerning the visuals that make the "firepower" estimates derived from such questionable.

I think that the Power Matrix contributed a large part to the actual energy release, if it has to handle with energy coming from the planets core then its pretty reasonable to assume that when destroyed there would be an energy release. But somehow Elizar regards this as a baseless assumption

Except we dont know what they were targeting to knock out the gravimetric field. The point is that its largely a non-inert object (it would have power running through it if it were the machine PRODUCING the field, and that energy has to go somewhere)

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Well since Matheson said that Dureena gave them the location of the power matrix it is reasonable to say that they were targeting that.

[Ender]

Bump

Anyone ever wanna go about showing him WEG scaling, since he loves his game scaling so much?

one thermal detanator, vaporizing a 20 m diameter sphere of neutronium, scaled up to a HTL...

[SirNitram]

Bump

Anyone ever wanna go about showing him WEG scaling, since he loves his game scaling so much?

one thermal detanator, vaporizing a 20 m diameter sphere of neutronium, scaled up to a HTL...

WEG derived firepower:

DS Main Gun: 1e42J per shot.

ISD-II HTL: 15 Petatons per shot.

Bow down, puny Babylon Five.