DS Question

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-11-18 10:26pm

If the 900KM diameter DSII would have been completed in 10 months, tops, how long would it take to build the 160KM diameter DSI? I'd like to know.

Questor · Post by **Questor** » 2004-11-18 10:46pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:If the 900KM diameter DSII would have been completed in 10 months, tops, how long would it take to build the 160KM diameter DSI? I'd like to know.

Well, with a radius of 450,000 m, the DS2 has a volume of 2.8 E17 cubic meters. The DS1, with a radius of 80,000 m, has a volume of 1.5 E15 cubic meters. If we assume equal construction rates, we know that they can build at a rate of 2.8 E16 cubic meters per month. Divide 1.5 E15 by 2.8 E16, and you get, if I've done my math correctly, about 0.05. Multiply that number by 30 and you get about 1.6.

So, assuming equal construction rates (and that I did the math correctly), the first Death Star took roughly a day and a half to build.

As this is a rather short period, I suspect that the construction rates were not equal.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-11-18 11:29pm

Which is probably the reason the Rebels couldn't get at it while it was in construction.

It also says that the Empire could churn out DSIs without that pesky thermal exhaust port every 2 days, and keep it secret.

Wow.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-11-18 11:37pm

ya know, thats kinda funny.

"its a trap!" and not an imperial fleet, but a squadron of deathstars

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-11-18 11:47pm

I think really big custom built hypermatter reactors and super lasers probably take more time than miles of hull plating.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-11-19 12:42am

Jason L. Miles wrote:
Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:If the 900KM diameter DSII would have been completed in 10 months, tops, how long would it take to build the 160KM diameter DSI? I'd like to know.
Well, with a radius of 450,000 m, the DS2 has a volume of 2.8 E17 cubic meters. The DS1, with a radius of 80,000 m, has a volume of 1.5 E15 cubic meters. If we assume equal construction rates, we know that they can build at a rate of 2.8 E16 cubic meters per month. Divide 1.5 E15 by 2.8 E16, and you get, if I've done my math correctly, about 0.05. Multiply that number by 30 and you get about 1.6.

So, assuming equal construction rates (and that I did the math correctly), the first Death Star took roughly a day and a half to build.

As this is a rather short period, I suspect that the construction rates were not equal.

They weren't. IIRC the ANH novelization specifies it took several years at least to build, although it also says this occured "in secret". The novel (and a number of other sources as well) howeve have implied that more than one may have been in the process of building.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-19 01:23am

This trend has been observed before; for some reason SW favors building big.

Take HIMS Executor and HIMS Avenger:

The battle cruiser masses over one hundred times that of the star destroyer and has similar or somewhat better armament density (around one hundred and twenty times as great). Yet the battle cruiser requires only two hundred-and-fifty thousand crewmen to the star destroyer's thirty-six thousand - this is less than an increase by a factor of ten. Even more notably, the battle cruiser is only worth twenty star destroyers despite being over one hundred times the volume. The prime example of the battle cruiser was apparently constructed in less than two months according to Marvel and other sources set, chronologically, immediately following A New Hope.

Antares · Post by **Antares** » 2004-11-19 02:52am

By just breaking down the numbers for DS 1/2 and concluding a theoretical build time of 1.5-2 days for a DS1 sized object, how long would it take to build an ISD then?

I dont know the mass volume on an ISD but is defentily many orders of magnitude smaller than an ISD (woah really?).

I i assume about 5.12E7 m^3 (1600x800x400x0.1) for an ISD and they can build something with 1.5 E15 m^3 in 2 days ( = 172800 sec) it would take less than 0.1 sec to build an ISD.

Sorry, but this sounds unrealistic.

Of course it's a matter of focusing resources and working forces. Nevertheless 2 days sounds unrealistic as well.

Questor · Post by **Questor** » 2004-11-19 03:51am

I agree its unrealistic, which is why I said:

As this is a rather short period, I suspect that the construction rates were not equal.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-11-19 04:10am

It wouldn't necessarily be a linear relationship. At the risk of using a seriously oversimplified analogy, 5800lb SUV doesn't take twice as long to build as a 2900lb car.

Besides, the first Death Star was built before the Emperor had dissolved the Senate.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-19 06:45am

Also if this is in reference to the supposed thought that RoTS-ANH is how long it took the DS to get built.

Two problem...we know in ANH that this isn't a test run for the DS, and the second being the Emperor has consolidation of the galaxy at large more or less by ANH.

So, the reason for likely construction difference can also be attributed to resource management as well.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-11-19 07:31am

I imagine making the engines of the DS1 work quite right would take some time too. They were after all, engines that dwarfed anything that went before them.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-11-19 09:46am

But, after that first "test-run" DS(Somewhat like the UFP's taking 20 years to build 3 GCSs, most of it was in the testing and planning phase), they would have all the plans they needed to build the superlaser, and hypermatter reactor, and engines.

Still... A Deathstar every 2 days is a fun concept.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-11-19 02:11pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:But, after that first "test-run" DS(Somewhat like the UFP's taking 20 years to build 3 GCSs, most of it was in the testing and planning phase), they would have all the plans they needed to build the superlaser, and hypermatter reactor, and engines.

Still... A Deathstar every 2 days is a fun concept.

And one I had great fun playing with in Star Wars Rebellion.

Antares · Post by **Antares** » 2004-11-19 02:37pm

Even if the construction of DS2 took only 6 month, nobody knows, how much of it was prefabricated and/or common available components.

For example TL turrets on the surface might be (certainly) mass products, or auxiliary power plants, apartments for the crew and so on are nothing else like those found on any other large space ship.

Something the size of a DS2 must highly be modularized otherwise i maintenance is impossible.

Perhaps the pure assembly process to the point were it was destroyed took only 6 month. But then any speculations about DS1 build time are problematic, because nobody knows how much time and work was invested before the assembly process started.

I guess prefabrication is also good for keeping something like that secred. Nobody cares about a 1km^2 armor plate that could be used for milions of other space stations especially if those plates are build all over the galaxy.

To "surprise" an "enemy" you have to build something faster than he can figure out what the disappearing resources are used for.

Well, just some additional thoughts

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-19 02:38pm

Actually it was all built on Site.

Shadows on the Empire.

Only the raw materials were shipped to the Endor site.

Questor · Post by **Questor** » 2004-11-19 02:44pm

Pre-fabrication is the most likely answer.

One rather large problem with my figures is that while they do fit within the capabilities of the entire empire, they do not fit within the capabilities of Endor. We observed no heavy manufacturing equipment in orbit around the sanctuary moon. One explanation for this is that the DS2 was built in small prefabricated sections.

Another point to consider is how much of the DS2 and DS1 were hollow.

Antares · Post by **Antares** » 2004-11-19 02:45pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Actually it was all built on Site.

Shadows on the Empire.

Only the raw materials were shipped to the Endor site.

If that's true, than even if it sounds ridicules a build time of 2 days for a DS1 gets more realistic.

Well, perhaps not 2 days but something like 10 days or so, why not?
(because it took 6 month for an incomplete DS2)

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-19 02:48pm

Jason L. Miles wrote:Pre-fabrication is the most likely answer.

One rather large problem with my figures is that while they do fit within the capabilities of the entire empire, they do not fit within the capabilities of Endor. We observed no heavy manufacturing equipment in orbit around the sanctuary moon. One explanation for this is that the DS2 was built in small prefabricated sections.

Another point to consider is how much of the DS2 and DS1 were hollow.

Given their cross sections not much.

And like I said...Shadows of the Empire has said only materials were transported, the entire manufacturing was on Endor.

This is also backed up by the latest Inside the Wolrds of.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-11-19 02:49pm

In the 10 months it took to build the DS2, they could have built 150 DS1, patrolling the Galaxy and blowing up planets... Neat.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-11-19 02:50pm

Antares wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Actually it was all built on Site.

Shadows on the Empire.

Only the raw materials were shipped to the Endor site.
If that's true, than even if it sounds ridicules a build time of 2 days for a DS1 gets more realistic.

Well, perhaps not 2 days but something like 10 days or so, why not?
(because it took 6 month for an incomplete DS2)

The build time could easily be there...but the major reason I say for not building them was purely political.

Even as anal and paranoid Palpatine was...no reason to hand a bunch of Grand Moffs a weapon capable of killing planets so they can foster revolution within their minds.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-11-20 04:36pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:In the 10 months it took to build the DS2, they could have built 150 DS1, patrolling the Galaxy and blowing up planets... Neat.

If they could build sufficient hypermatter reactors and superlasers to supply that many Deathstars. Merely because they could assemble the parts doesn't mean they would have the parts.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-11-20 10:43pm

just for comparison, iirc, the usa during ww2 built 10 destroyers in 10 days.

one might expect a cvilization on such a higher scale to be capable of similar feats.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2004-11-20 10:48pm

But where those ships being built in absolute secrecy?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-11-20 11:12pm

doubtful.

of course, that a ds could be created in sececy shows even more production capability - if the empire was going all out ds every 2 days, why bother with secrecy?

by the time you hear that one is being built, its being guarded by several

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