The BSA may be a private organization, but they're also a group that asks for donations from a lot of people. I think that any group which asks for donations should be required to say what they're for, and in this case, the BSA should be required to say "please donate to help support religious intolerance". You know, scout's honesty and all that.
The problem with BSA is that they let the guy in, in the first place. If they're going to kick him out, he should ask for a refund on all the donations his family has given and money he's spent on that Boy Scout bullshit.
It's fine if they bar someone from actually joining, but now they're just reneging and backpedaling.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
You know what's really funny about this little situation, the fact of all of the people in the world to be complaining about intolerance and bigotry, it's the people on this messageboard. I can't go on a single thread without running across a line like "Christians are stupid and racist and deserve to rot in hell". You people belittles anyone who believes in God and spit on their beliefs. And you got the nerve to judge on the Boy Scouts for kicking out an atheist? You people are all hypocrits.
Priesto wrote:Stupid, uncalled for and pathetic. He doesn't believe in something I do therefore he can go jump off a cliff for all I care.
What the fuck is your problem? You son't see me sayin, "Oh, Priesto doesn't believe in something I believe in [ie, the Goddess], so he can go jump off a cliff for all I care," do you? I think that you deserve a VI tag AS WELL AS the FM tag! Ugh, it's people like you that make me sick! Even the CW idiots can at least TOLERATE atheism! I bet if you were a mod (which you never will be), you'd ban everybody off the board (almost) because they're atheists (having them jump off a cliff), wouldn't you? Now, where do you get off on making comments like this? THat was completely uncalled for!
Crossover_Maniac wrote:You know what's really funny about this little situation, the fact of all of the people in the world to be complaining about intolerance and bigotry, it's the people on this messageboard. I can't go on a single thread without running across a line like "Christians are stupid and racist and deserve to rot in hell". You people belittles anyone who believes in God and spit on their beliefs. And you got the nerve to judge on the Boy Scouts for kicking out an atheist? You people are all hypocrits.
We're not all hypocrites, its just that we attack the fundamentalists because they are "immune" to common sense and logic. And, IIRC, the WCOTC came and started shit with US< not the other way around...and I think that may be where all this stemmed from.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:You know what's really funny about this little situation, the fact of all of the people in the world to be complaining about intolerance and bigotry, it's the people on this messageboard. I can't go on a single thread without running across a line like "Christians are stupid and racist and deserve to rot in hell". You people belittles anyone who believes in God and spit on their beliefs. And you got the nerve to judge on the Boy Scouts for kicking out an atheist? You people are all hypocrits.
I sense a disturbance in the force. Dark flames will arise..
Now, tell me where exactly that phrase "Christians are stupid and racist and deserve to rot in hell" is said over and over in the board. It is strange, because there are many moderate Christians here and I've never heard them complaining. Fundamentalists are stupid, yes, by definition. And stupid fundamentalists should in fact rot in the hell of their creation, the one that they threaten we'll get.
And yes, it's everybody's right to judge people who mistreat others because of their beliefs. When judging someone, I pay attention to the morality, actions and ideas of that person. I really don't care about the God (or lack of) they worship.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:You know what's really funny about this little situation, the fact of all of the people in the world to be complaining about intolerance and bigotry, it's the people on this messageboard. I can't go on a single thread without running across a line like "Christians are stupid and racist and deserve to rot in hell". You people belittles anyone who believes in God and spit on their beliefs. And you got the nerve to judge on the Boy Scouts for kicking out an atheist? You people are all hypocrits.
I sense a disturbance in the force. Dark flames will arise..
Now, tell me where exactly that phrase "Christians are stupid and racist and deserve to rot in hell" is said over and over in the board.
You must not be on the stardestroyer.net forum because all I see is insults leveled towards Christians, especially on the Science,Logic, and Morality board.
It is strange, because there are many moderate Christians here and I've never heard them complaining.
That's because they want to get along with the atheists on the board. I was the same way too. But I tired of it and left the board. I just came back here to see the reaction to the atheist Boy Scout. I thought the reaction would be something like, "Good thing he left, he didn't need to hand around those religious morons anyway." Instead, you don't want the Boy Scouts to respect his religious (or lack there of) views; respect you have yet to show on this board.
Fundamentalists are stupid, yes, by definition. And stupid fundamentalists should in fact rot in the hell of their creation, the one that they threaten we'll get.
Thanks for proving my point.
And yes, it's everybody's right to judge people who mistreat others because of their beliefs. When judging someone, I pay attention to the morality, actions and ideas of that person. I really don't care about the God (or lack of) they worship.
I no longer care what you say on this board about Christians anymore. You're quite free to say whatever you want. But what really angers me is the blantant double standard you have. Otherwise, there's little difference between the case of the atheist Boy Scout and the majority of the people on this board.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:
You must not be on the stardestroyer.net forum because all I see is insults leveled towards Christians, especially on the Science,Logic, and Morality board.
I have three times your post count, most of them here and off topic.
Humm.. and, again, no specific examples. Again, point me where a moderate Chistian got insulted and flamed for the sake of it. Fundies are flamed for defending creationism and alike, and for taking the Bible literally. Moderate Christians are not. But I agree, if you're a fundie then this board is not healthy for you.
It is strange, because there are many moderate Christians here and I've never heard them complaining.
That's because they want to get along with the atheists on the board. I was the same way too. But I tired of it and left the board.
I bet some of them disagree. And, well, I never said I'm atheist. Anyway, good riddance.
Fundamentalists are stupid, yes, by definition. And stupid fundamentalists should in fact rot in the hell of their creation, the one that they threaten we'll get.
Thanks for proving my point.
Thanks for proving your fundie mentallity, lack of logic and poor understanding.
And yes, it's everybody's right to judge people who mistreat others because of their beliefs. When judging someone, I pay attention to the morality, actions and ideas of that person. I really don't care about the God (or lack of) they worship.
I no longer care what you say on this board about Christians anymore. You're quite free to say whatever you want. But what really angers me is the blantant double standard you have. Otherwise, there's little difference between the case of the atheist Boy Scout and the majority of the people on this board.
So, I should judge an atheist because they deny God, and not because of his ideas and actions. What a good little fundie you are.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:You know what's really funny about this little situation, the fact of all of the people in the world to be complaining about intolerance and bigotry, it's the people on this messageboard. I can't go on a single thread without running across a line like "Christians are stupid and racist and deserve to rot in hell". You people belittles anyone who believes in God and spit on their beliefs. And you got the nerve to judge on the Boy Scouts for kicking out an atheist? You people are all hypocrits.
I sense a disturbance in the force. Dark flames will arise..
Now, tell me where exactly that phrase "Christians are stupid and racist and deserve to rot in hell" is said over and over in the board.
You must not be on the stardestroyer.net forum because all I see is insults leveled towards Christians, especially on the Science,Logic, and Morality board.
WTF are you talking about? That's what the SLAM forum is for--morality. Religion is encompassed by morality.
It is strange, because there are many moderate Christians here and I've never heard them complaining.
That's because they want to get along with the atheists on the board.
They don't just "want" to, they DO. Pay attention, my friend.
I was the same way too. But I tired of it and left the board. I just came back here to see the reaction to the atheist Boy Scout. I thought the reaction would be something like, "Good thing he left, he didn't need to hand around those religious morons anyway." Instead, you don't want the Boy Scouts to respect his religious (or lack there of) views; respect you have yet to show on this board.
Err, we WANT the Boy Scouts to respect his religious views. (Or lack of them). Besides, this right here makes no sense.
Fundamentalists are stupid, yes, by definition. And stupid fundamentalists should in fact rot in the hell of their creation, the one that they threaten we'll get.
Thanks for proving my point.
What point, that he used what you said to make a point of his own? THat fundamentalists can't learn tolerance half the time? That most of the time Christians are going to denounce atheists far more than atheists will ever denounce Christians? Besides, Fundamentalists don't seem to see that atheists don't believe in Hell, and so can't threaten them with thoughts of soemthing that they don't believe exists.
And yes, it's everybody's right to judge people who mistreat others because of their beliefs. When judging someone, I pay attention to the morality, actions and ideas of that person. I really don't care about the God (or lack of) they worship.
I no longer care what you say on this board about Christians anymore.
Concession Accepted.
You're quite free to say whatever you want. But what really angers me is the blantant double standard you have.
What "double standard"?
Otherwise, there's little difference between the case of the atheist Boy Scout and the majority of the people on this board.
How so? Because atheists are ousted form societies becuase they have no religious views? In that sense, you may be right.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:I no longer care what you say on this board about Christians anymore. You're quite free to say whatever you want. But what really angers me is the blantant double standard you have. Otherwise, there's little difference between the case of the atheist Boy Scout and the majority of the people on this board.
So, I should judge an atheist because they deny God, and not because of his ideas and actions. What a good little fundie you are.
I didn't say anything about judging people by their belief in God. I'm saying you are no better than the people kicking the boy out of the Scouts. You're venomous attitude towards anyone that disagrees with you is identical to the attitude the people who kicked the atheist out of Boy Scouts. Please refrain from lying.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:I no longer care what you say on this board about Christians anymore. You're quite free to say whatever you want. But what really angers me is the blantant double standard you have. Otherwise, there's little difference between the case of the atheist Boy Scout and the majority of the people on this board.
So, I should judge an atheist because they deny God, and not because of his ideas and actions. What a good little fundie you are.
I didn't say anything about judging people by their belief in God. I'm saying you are no better than the people kicking the boy out of the Scouts. You're venomous attitude towards anyone that disagrees with you is identical to the attitude the people who kicked the atheist out of Boy Scouts. Please refrain from lying.
He's not lying, nor is being venomous toward sanyone for different views. At least, as far as I can tell.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:
I didn't say anything about judging people by their belief in God. I'm saying you are no better than the people kicking the boy out of the Scouts. You're venomous attitude towards anyone that disagrees with you is identical to the attitude the people who kicked the atheist out of Boy Scouts. Please refrain from lying.
prove I have a venomous attitude towards anyone that disagrees with me.
I dislike people who go against science and think Chick's tracts to be sensible and true.
So:
If you think Creationism is true because it says so in the Bible then you're an idiot.
If you believe homosexuality is a sin because it says so in the Bible then you're an idiot
If you are a person of moral thoughts and actions, and know science, then you're not. Christian or no Christian.
I've said this over and over again. so I don't see how I can be lying.
Now, again. When did a moderate Christian get attacked for believing in God?
Crossover_Maniac wrote:
I no longer care what you say on this board about Christians anymore.
Concession Accepted.
Concession for what?
You're quite free to say whatever you want. But what really angers me is the blantant double standard you have.
What "double standard"?[/quote]
The ones that allows the atheist majority on this board to blast any Fundie for believing in the Bible but demands that these same people to give respect to atheists.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:
I no longer care what you say on this board about Christians anymore.
Concession Accepted.
Concession for what?
Read your statement.
verilon wrote:
You're quite free to say whatever you want. But what really angers me is the blantant double standard you have.
What "double standard"?
The ones that allows the atheist majority on this board to blast any Fundie for believing in the Bible but demands that these same people to give respect to atheists.
Ah. You seem to think that most everyone on the board is an atheist. We're not; I am a pagan for example. A good 1/3 of this board (which is a lot of members) seem to me to be non-atheist. But that's besides the point. We respect them, we just seem to smash them, is all. All that is going on is the fact that they don't respect us. It may seem like we don't but that is because they try to argue and lose. What is really going on is that we are pointing out what is wrong with their beliefs, not disrespecting them in any way.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:
The ones that allows the atheist majority on this board to blast any Fundie for believing in the Bible but demands that these same people to give respect to atheists.
That's funny. No, wait. It's just sad.
Firstly, fundies are blasted when they try to defend ideas opposed to science. Again, it's no good to say Earth is flat because it says so in the Bible. That being, it's ridiculous to play relativism and say that Creationism and Evolution should have equal rights for fear of offending the fundies.
If a fundie has a good argument to defend a controversial view of his, then bring it fourth. But it's wrong to try to pass something as true just because it is mentioned in the Bible.
Secondly, are all Christian organization fundies? No. Are the U.S scouts supposed to be fundies? Well, I'm European, I really can't tell, but I hope not. At least, here they are a secular organization.
Crossover_Maniac wrote:
I didn't say anything about judging people by their belief in God. I'm saying you are no better than the people kicking the boy out of the Scouts. You're venomous attitude towards anyone that disagrees with you is identical to the attitude the people who kicked the atheist out of Boy Scouts. Please refrain from lying.
prove I have a venomous attitude towards anyone that disagrees with me.
Here's my proof.
So:
If you think Creationism is true because it says so in the Bible then you're an idiot.
If you believe homosexuality is a sin because it says so in the Bible then you're an idiot
If you are a person of moral thoughts and actions, and know science, then you're not. Christian or no Christian.
I've said this over and over again. so I don't see how I can be lying.
So, you only like Christians that agrees with you and doesn't believe in their own religion's teachings? Look, you're quite welcome to your opinion, but don't demand something you're not willing to give yourself. If you can't even say, "I don't believe in Christian doctrine" without throwing a couple of insults into your conversation, then why should the Fundies, as you so lovely refer to those Christians that actually believe in their own religion, give you any consideration? Why shouldn't they show the same disdain you show them?
verilon wrote:Ummm.....last I checked, Col. Olrik was a Christian....but I may be wrong. I know Cyril is...
Well, there's always been infighting among Christians over theological differences that sometimes turn ugly. I won't sit here and lie about that. Regardless, I still stand by my first post on this subject.
It is strange, because there are many moderate Christians here and I've never heard them complaining.
That's because they want to get along with the atheists on the board. I was the same way too. But I tired of it and left the board. I just came back here to see the reaction to the atheist Boy Scout. I thought the reaction would be something like, "Good thing he left, he didn't need to hand around those religious morons anyway." Instead, you don't want the Boy Scouts to respect his religious (or lack there of) views; respect you have yet to show on this board.
Yes this is true. I do just appease you atheists to get along, since I have no friends in real life. I only agree with you that's bad about religion is people on is the misogynic slant of christianity and the OT parts of the bible advocating genocide, and the death for victimless crimes, and that religion is illogical. You people are intolerant of christians in general, or at least imply it with your stereotyping. Every christian on this board has to appease the atheists to avoid being called a fundie. You people are intolerant. Face it it is the truth. Now I will try to shut up and return to my facade of supporting the atheists in their "crusade" against religion before I get flamed.
And no I am not a creationist
BTW my mother makes me attend boy scouts.
Last edited by Pu-239 on 2002-11-07 10:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
ah.....the path to happiness is revision of dreams and not fulfillment... -SWPIGWANG
Sufficient Googling is indistinguishable from knowledge -somebody
Anything worth the cost of a missile, which can be located on the battlefield, will be shot at with missiles. If the US military is involved, then things, which are not worth the cost if a missile will also be shot at with missiles. -Sea Skimmer
George Bush makes freedom sound like a giant robot that breaks down a lot. -Darth Raptor
I've been bossed around my whole life so I don't give a shit
ah.....the path to happiness is revision of dreams and not fulfillment... -SWPIGWANG
Sufficient Googling is indistinguishable from knowledge -somebody
Anything worth the cost of a missile, which can be located on the battlefield, will be shot at with missiles. If the US military is involved, then things, which are not worth the cost if a missile will also be shot at with missiles. -Sea Skimmer
George Bush makes freedom sound like a giant robot that breaks down a lot. -Darth Raptor
ah.....the path to happiness is revision of dreams and not fulfillment... -SWPIGWANG
Sufficient Googling is indistinguishable from knowledge -somebody
Anything worth the cost of a missile, which can be located on the battlefield, will be shot at with missiles. If the US military is involved, then things, which are not worth the cost if a missile will also be shot at with missiles. -Sea Skimmer
George Bush makes freedom sound like a giant robot that breaks down a lot. -Darth Raptor
You people insult and flame anyone who does not comform. Lets just limit it to individual bigots. And make sure they are really bigots. I don't think creationistalltheway is too bad, just misguided. Of course by all means insult people like Falwell who are blatant about their bigotry. Don't stereotype all Christians for the actions of a few.
ah.....the path to happiness is revision of dreams and not fulfillment... -SWPIGWANG
Sufficient Googling is indistinguishable from knowledge -somebody
Anything worth the cost of a missile, which can be located on the battlefield, will be shot at with missiles. If the US military is involved, then things, which are not worth the cost if a missile will also be shot at with missiles. -Sea Skimmer
George Bush makes freedom sound like a giant robot that breaks down a lot. -Darth Raptor
Pu-239 wrote:You people insult and flame anyone who does not comform. Lets just limit it to individual bigots. And make sure they are really bigots. I don't think creationistalltheway is too bad, just misguided. Of course by all means insult people like Falwell who are blatant about their bigotry. Don't stereotype all Christians for the actions of a few.
Lack of conformity doesn't get someone flamed. Heck a lot of people here don't always agree. Does the board look like some love fest to you? Besides look at the people here. We got homosexuals, bisexuals, pagans, etc. This look like archetypal society to you?
The morons that get flamed are those that think that their claims are facts just because they say so. It doesn't matter if you are debating religion or SW vs. ST, claims aren't facts unless you can back up your assertion with proof.
It doesn't matter if a person is a Christian. But a certain segment takes the position that the Bible is literal truth. By using that criterion of categorization that means that the fundamentalist subclass all abide by this belief. And of course, doing so makes them idiots because of the simple fact that the Bible is not literal truth. Unless you believe that pi=3 and that the mass murder of children is justified because their political leader did something bad?
Why perpetuate their methods? Better to let them die. You don't have to bludgen them down constantly; most people know their idiots anyway. I'd prefer to not practice their trade.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | LibertarianSocialist |
Crossover_Maniac, Pu-239, the two of you miss the whole point by several parsecs.
The people here, from what I've seen, are very tolerant in general, but they are also prone to be blunt and plain-spoken. If someone makes a claim without backing it up with evidence and then insists that claim be treated as fact, even if it is contradicted by evidence, they will get blasted. Fundamentalists (of whatever stripe) invariably use this approach almost exclusively.
As has been pointed out many times, there are people here who are Christians and who get along just fine with the atheists, pagan gays, Jews and whatever the hell else some people here are. Hell, some of these religious folks even thrive here. And they are not blasted, because they do not make ridiculous claims with no evidence. In fact, some of them have shot down ridiculous fundamentalist claims themselves.
I myself am an atheist, yet I have Christian friends, one of them even a creationist to some degree or another, and I get along with them just fine. The thing is, none of my Christian friends have shown the sort of bigotry or stupidity displayed by the sort of fundies that routinely get blasted here. Even the creationist. That, afaik, is a case of believing it because of lack of knowledge and being lied to, and you should see some of the things that person has said regarding the fundies. Blister your ears off, it will.
Now, Crossover_Maniac and Pu-239, if you find yourselves agreeing with the beliefs and claims made by fundamentalists, claims which often are contradicted by mountains of evidence, you've no reason whatsoever to get pissy when the contradiction is pointed out to you. If you still stick to a particular interpretation that is shown to be factually incorrect (such as Biblical literalism), then you're just burying your head in the sand and showing willful ignorance.
And yes, there are things that receive little tolerance on this board. Those are willful ignorance (aka stupidity) and bigotry in its various forms (racism, religious intolerance etc). There is no reason to be tolerant of those. The only thing that it is acceptable to be intolerant of is intolerance itself, and we are under no obligation to coddle anybody's precious beliefs if they are contradicted by observations of the real world (e.g. biblical literalism), because such are a case of willful ignorance. Simple ignorance is a different matter, it is just lack of knowledge and can be rectified by giving facts. If those demonstrated facts are refused, it becomes willful and will be condemned.
And finally, if you persist with willful ignorance and intolerance and can't take the resulting heat, get out of the sauna, or if you won't, at least stop throwing water on the stove. There's other places where bullshit gets a more welcoming reception, so I suggest you go there.
He doesn't believe in something I do therefore he can go jump off a cliff for all I care. 
I sense a disturbance in the force. Dark flames will arise..
