Official Half-Life 2 discussion thread.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2004-11-26 03:59am

I actually really like Valve's story telling style. What you know and how you find out all the information is exactly how the character discovers it all; through observation and deduction.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2004-11-26 05:15am

Which could mean he's wearing the exact same outfit, you know.

False. The G-man said he deprived Gordon of his equipment, and the HEV icons (displaying life, ammo, and energy levels) disappear in the closing scenes of HL1.

I actually really like Valve's story telling style. What you know and how you find out all the information is exactly how the character discovers it all; through observation and deduction.

I agree. How fucking annoying is it, in an action movie or something, for the Central Character - probably played by Tom Cruise - to be the only one that knows everything? Nuh-uh. Small minds may disagree, but most of the time, a guy only sees a tiny slice of the big picture.

That's what HL2 feels like to me... you're one guy, seeing one perspective, participating in a small number of events. There's a whole 'nother world going on outside of anything the player is doing. That's the beauty of HL2... the simulation of a real world. I can't think of any game that's done it better (the upcoming STALKER game looks like it might give a shot at that title, though, but that's a whole 'nother thread).

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-26 06:26am

SPOOFE wrote: False. The G-man said he deprived Gordon of his equipment, and the HEV icons (displaying life, ammo, and energy levels) disappear in the closing scenes of HL1.

At the time Eli says it, you're in your suit. The suit is identical to the one you wore.

I agree. How fucking annoying is it, in an action movie or something, for the Central Character - probably played by Tom Cruise - to be the only one that knows everything? Nuh-uh. Small minds may disagree, but most of the time, a guy only sees a tiny slice of the big picture.

That's what HL2 feels like to me... you're one guy, seeing one perspective, participating in a small number of events. There's a whole 'nother world going on outside of anything the player is doing. That's the beauty of HL2... the simulation of a real world. I can't think of any game that's done it better (the upcoming STALKER game looks like it might give a shot at that title, though, but that's a whole 'nother thread).

The one hole in this lauding of being told jack and shit, is that if *you* were Gordon Freeman, don't you think you'd pull someone aside and ask "hey, mate, excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?"

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-11-26 11:01am

Vympel wrote: The one hole in this lauding of being told jack and shit, is that if *you* were Gordon Freeman, don't you think you'd pull someone aside and ask "hey, mate, excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?"

Just like battlefield Vietnam needed a "watch your friend die, get hooked on drugs and return to a country tha hates you" button, HL2 needs a "ask someone what the hell is going on" button.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-11-26 02:55pm

Vympel wrote:
SPOOFE wrote: False. The G-man said he deprived Gordon of his equipment, and the HEV icons (displaying life, ammo, and energy levels) disappear in the closing scenes of HL1.
At the time Eli says it, you're in your suit. The suit is identical to the one you wore.

The suit you got AT KLEINER'S LAB. And no, it's NOT the same suit, since it is a Mark V, as opposed to a Mark IV.

FURTHERMORE, as Barney says in Kleiner's Lab "Hey, since he won't be taking the road, why not get him out of his civvies?" and then proceeds to GIVE YOU THE HEV SUIT!

If you could be more blatent about not paying attention to the dialouge and occurances when playing, I'd like to know how.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-11-26 03:16pm

Thoughts on Half-Life 2 so far.

When I very first started the game and got to play through the opening aspect of the game I was simply amazed at what they had done. The game is incredible. The changes from the original Half-Life are almost impossible to count. The level of detail is stunning. They recreate the atmosphere’s perfectly.

That said, I am not quite so impressed with the graphics engine as I was a year ago. We’ve had enough recent contenders in the gaming community that I just can’t say I am that impressed. Far Cry really set a new bar when it came to outdoor environments, and I have to say that some of Half-Life 2s exterior environments just aren’t as good as they could have been. That said, I am not saying the exteriors are bad, they just don’t put the same effort into them. Of course PC Gamer said this same thing. Half-Life 2 does get its interiors done very well. The use of a physics engine combined with the objects inside make for some interesting situations. The detail on the characters is also good. Although I can’t help but say it looks like most of the humans are about to suffer from skin cancer. Their skin coloration isn’t the best. However, the character models are incredible. Even better, the emotion and facial expressions are real. Unlike other games which attempt to approximate the movements and emotion or use carefully scripted cut scenes, Half-Life 2 uses in game and the emotion is perfectly suited.

The game play itself is very solid. The boat and buggy are a little clunky at first, but when you get used to them they operate quite nicely. Valve did an excellent job implementing these two components. I like the new limiting factors for Gordon like sprinting and how he can’t jump quite like he used to. Though I must say the ammo capacity is a little sparse. I’ve run out of MP7 ammo pretty frequently. I do take an issue with the MP7 and Overwatch Rifle. Their accuracy sucks ass. I don’t know what the hell Valve was thinking implementing Conefire into the weapons. I prefer the Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon, and Counter Strike method of weapon accuracy. Make the accuracy dependent on movement, refire, and if your laying prone or not. It irritates me to no end that I can’t take the rifle or SMG and fire them at range.

Now after saying all of the above, Half-Life 2 definitely feels like its predecessor. I mean that it feels like its part of the series, you have the same sense of awe, the same feeling. However, Half-Life 2 offers so much more. The physics engine makes for some interesting situations. I rather like using the gravity gun and picking up objects and killing the enemy. I don’t even bother firing a gun at the momma antlion, I just keep picking up barrels with the grav gun and hurl them. Picking up saw blades is so bloody cool, though I wish you got to use those against the Combine, not just zombies. Radiators and propane bottles work good against the soldiers though. The crossbow is quite nice. I’ve even nailed a combine soldier to the wall with his head and saw his body swinging from side to side. That was rather amusing.

The games atmosphere is really good and draws you right into the action. I love how you first enter the game and your just trying to figure things out. The Highway 17 and Ravenholm maps are very detailed and do a good job with SOD.

All in all I am very pleased with HL2. I’ve even had some rather amusing encounters. I found one puzzle on Highway 17 where you have to get a gate open for your buggy (right after a dropship landed some Combine). I couldn’t figure out how to get the gate open so I decide to try and jump it. For the trouble I end up with my buggy vertical against the side of the wall and stuck. I get my grav gun and with a few quick blasts send the buggy over the wall and now I am ready to drive again. I also rather enjoyed using the grav gun to move all the blocked cars on the highway all into the water.

The friendly AI in the game is pretty good. Better then the original Half-Life (or its add-ons). Your friends try and take cover and stay alive. The medic does a good job keeping your troops alive as well. I also like how they ditch their guns for better guns if they find them. I would love to see someone mod the original Half-Life with this AI. I would love to see Barney’s with shotguns or MP5s.

Now I do have one big gripe with Valve. Steam. They set up the system and it works quite well, but I am concerned. Their method for getting Half-Life 2 to run without an internet connection is very complicated and that bothers me. I also am leery of the fact that you have to use Steam to even get the game installed. What the bloody hell are we going to do when Valve goes under? I still play old games and enjoy them today. I have several 10 year old games on my computer that I know damned well aren’t supported by anyone. What happens when I want to play Half-Life 2 10 years from now and Steam might be shut down? I am hoping Valve releases some sort of patch or code that can be used to trick the installation into working once they are satisfied they won’t loose money to pirating. I also want a reliable way to play Counter Strike Source without using Steam. Give us a good old fashioned way to set up IP games.

FYI, I am to the point where I team up with Barney and we are trying to shut down some sort of suppression field. So I haven’t seen everything yet.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-11-26 03:22pm

Alyeska wrote:What happens when I want to play Half-Life 2 10 years from now and Steam might be shut down? I am hoping Valve releases some sort of patch or code that can be used to trick the installation into working once they are satisfied they won’t loose money to pirating.

I would assume in such a situation Valve would release some form of patch to remove it.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-11-26 04:36pm

I think its obvious HL2 takes place a fair distance into the future. However, it can't be THAT far because Barney has only a few gray hairs and both Kliener and Vance don't look too old. I guess Black Mesa was filled with fairly young docs for the most part.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-11-26 05:42pm

Alyeska wrote:I think its obvious HL2 takes place a fair distance into the future. However, it can't be THAT far because Barney has only a few gray hairs and both Kliener and Vance don't look too old. I guess Black Mesa was filled with fairly young docs for the most part.

You can compare Vance with the photo in his lab, and IMO he's aged by about 10 years, but then i am crap at guessing age.

IIRC didn't Vlve say HL2 was set 5 years after HL1?

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-26 09:11pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
The suit you got AT KLEINER'S LAB. And no, it's NOT the same suit, since it is a Mark V, as opposed to a Mark IV.

Looked the damn same to me, and that's far more relevant as to what "mark" it is.

FURTHERMORE, as Barney says in Kleiner's Lab "Hey, since he won't be taking the road, why not get him out of his civvies?" and then proceeds to GIVE YOU THE HEV SUIT!

If you could be more blatent about not paying attention to the dialouge and occurances when playing, I'd like to know how.

Where did I say you were in the suit at the start of the game? Could you construct a more stupid strawman?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-11-26 09:16pm

You clearly are wearing a new suit as of Half Life 2. The fact that they call it a Mark 5 as well as the fact that it has added capabilities (zoom, toxin healing, sprint, etc..) should be a hint to this.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-26 09:20pm

Alyeska wrote:You clearly are wearing a new suit as of Half Life 2. The fact that they call it a Mark 5 as well as the fact that it has added capabilities (zoom, toxin healing, sprint, etc..) should be a hint to this.

I'm not saying it isn't a new suit, I'm saying it looked the same to me. My concern here is the plot, or the lack thereof. You *can't* have a main character who can't interact with others combined with people telling you sweet fuck all, it just doens't work. Something's got to give, IMO. Like, seriously, how many times am I expected to push "E" next to a Vortigaunt to see if he'll say anything interesting? In HL1 you got plenty of information from the plethora of charcters you encountered (who looked the same). In HL2 they cut the characters down dramatically but don't explain anything either.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-11-26 09:23pm

They wanted to spoon feed the information to you with tidbits in the levels. For whatever reason Freeman didn't ask what was going on and no one bothered to tell him because they don't know where he was. Actualy I suspect the G-man might have filled you in a little before releasing you. Problem is as a character your getting a lot of this information second hand.

Pitty they cut the scene with Eli explaining what had gone on.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-11-27 04:28am

Alyeska wrote:Pitty they cut the scene with Eli explaining what had gone on.

As I said before, this could definatly have been intentional, there could be a far more interesting story behind what happened between the two games. Hell, the next game, or expansion, could be ALL about that.

Just a little food for thought on how much time has passed.
Recall what alyx said about dog.
Her father built it for her protection (obviously after Black Mesa when the aliens were showing up all over the wilderness). I think it's fair to say that Dog was built shortly after the events in HL1. We could use that to base our estimates.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-11-27 11:50am

I would have to say that Half-Life 2 takes place about 15 years later.

Kleiner and Vance were both in their mid 30s and now are in their late 40s or just turned 50 or so.

Alyx was likely around ten or so (that drawing she made for Kleiner could have been from well before the Black Mesa incident) and is now 25.

Barney was probably 23 or so (he finished community college is all, just two years) and would now be 38. That fits because he still seems fairly fit, but has gray creeping into his hair.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2004-11-27 08:03pm

I suspect the G-Man is actually the wormhole alien from Farscape. Also, the super gravity gun is like sex on a stick, I just wish there was a multiplayer mod with it in.

Executor32 · Post by **Executor32** » 2004-11-27 08:21pm

I think pictures can solve this silly HEV argument:

Mark IV from HL:

Mark V from HL2:

They look pretty damn different to me.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-11-27 09:48pm

I've been playing around with the console (mass Ant Lion charges!) anyone know how to give yourself the supergravity gun?

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2004-11-27 10:30pm

In HL1 you got plenty of information from the plethora of charcters you encountered (who looked the same).

Roughly the same amount as in HL2.

Seriously, I don't get it. I've played HL1 a million times, and I'm wondering where all these conclusive, condensed, and explicit story scenes are hidden.

Mutant Headcrab · Post by **Mutant Headcrab** » 2004-11-27 10:58pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:I've been playing around with the console (mass Ant Lion charges!) anyone know how to give yourself the supergravity gun?

The only known way to do it is to play the level where you first get the supergravity gun, then after you get it, level change to wherever you want to use it and use the all weapons code. It seems that the supergravity gun is just the gravity gun with a map specific code activated. Playing the map then using the change level code keeps whatever that code is on.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2004-11-27 11:14pm

SPOOFE wrote:Roughly the same amount as in HL2.

Seriously, I don't get it. I've played HL1 a million times, and I'm wondering where all these conclusive, condensed, and explicit story scenes are hidden.

You get roughly the same information, but in HL1 there is no big mystery as to what the hell is going on because you know what is going on. You were the one who started the Resonance Cascade and started the Xen infestation of Earth. You know that all of the aliens came from Xen and that it's your job to stop the invasion somehow.

In HL2, you have no idea what the cause of the Combine occupation of Earth was. In fact, you have no idea what the hell the Combine is. You don't know a thing about the "benefactors." You don't even know what actually happened at the end because of the g-man's interruption. I didn't even understand what he was talking about.

However, the thing that bugs me is that you still don't know a damned thing about the g-man's intentions in any HL game. In HL1, he said you did a nice job of wiping out Xen and yet if you refuse to take the job he has a force of alien grunts and alien transports ready to use.

What the hell is that all about? He congratulates you on destroying Xen and at the same time controls Xen?

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2004-11-28 12:05am

Rye wrote:Also, the super gravity gun is like sex on a stick, I just wish there was a multiplayer mod with it in.

Oooh, mod idea, everyone gets super-grav guns and has to fling spawning explosive barrels and and all sorts of other stuff at each other, and can "gravity gun jump" off of the ground and walls, and can catch stuff thrown at them if they're quick enough.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2004-11-28 01:05am

In HL2, you have no idea what the cause of the Combine occupation of Earth was. In fact, you have no idea what the hell the Combine is. You don't know a thing about the "benefactors."

All information that you just plain don't need to know.

-There are bad guys. They're trying to kill you. Kill them instead.
-There's a big bad guy named Breen, who's in charge.
-All of these events are part of some far larger scheme that you have yet to discover.

Those three points are crystal clear, and those three points are all you need. Again, I just plain don't get it.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2004-11-28 02:06am

Don't need to know?! If they want people to fully appreciate the background you need to know those things. I would really like to know who the "benefactors" are, how much more advanced they are than humans (considering the war against the world's combined military forces lasted only seven hours and yet the Combine are later beaten solely by guerilla infantry), why they allowed humans to live, how powerful they are in the universe, what those pods that contain humans do, etc. I'd like to see if they are aliens or humanoids or whatever. I'd also like to know what relation the g-man has to aliens in general and the humans. I also want to know how he has superior technology to anyone else, who employs him (unless he employs himself), what faction is he ultimately serving, and why he keeps using humans (Gordon, Sheppard, Calhoun) to screw over certain factions. Also I want to know if Dr. Breen knew about the Combine during HL1 or if he exclusively knew about Xen and then later found out about Race X and then the Combine.

There's many more questions I have, but these are among the most important.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2004-11-28 02:40am

My theory:

I think Breen has been in the combine's pocket since the beginning. How does the director of a top secret military installation become the supreme leader of humanity? There are plenty of politicians and generals who would be a much better choice. If however, Breen had been offered the job as part of the deal for his betrayal, then it seems to be more believable. From HL1, we know that Breen pressured the research team to push ahead with tests, even though they were against it. Black Mesa may have originally been planned as a beachhead for a much larger invasion force and as a permanent connection to Combine space via Xen.

When Freeman killed big N and disrupted this plan, the Combine were forced to change tactics. They launched a massive attack against Earth, taking much of the planet in the first few hours of assault. The only problem with this was that without Xen, bringing in troops from Combine space was difficult. This meant that what forces were on Earth were pretty much it. They were forced to make due, and rely increasingly on locally recruited forces. Meanwhile, although Earth's militaries were beaten, there are still enough soldiers around to form the early resistance. The combine would have been dealing with professional soldiers who not only knew what they were doing, but had the support of the local populace. In order to counteract this, the Combine introduced creatures such as the antlions, as well as headcrab infestations in order to deny the use of outlying areas to the resistance.

How does G-Man fit into all of this? Personally, I think he's working for a third party, an opponant of the Combine. He destroyed Black Mesa in order to prevent the Combine from taking it, and he used Freeman to tip the balance in the resistance's favor. It's almost a cold-war situation, with both sides using proxies in order to avoid an actually shooting war.