Essential Guides, love 'em or hate 'em?

Cabwi Desco · Post by **Cabwi Desco** » 2004-11-25 05:25pm

I just got the New Essential Guide to vehicles and vessels, and man am I dissapointed. Its not nearly as good as the last one and quite frankly im Pissed. I could honestly care less what the Jabitha looked like! also i was hoping for a nice schematic of the Star Defender class, but NO. hell they took out my old favorite in the VSD!

Anyway short rant over, what do you think of the books uptill now?

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-11-25 05:37pm

I love them, but yes, the newer ones are some what dissapointing. THEY DIDN'T EVEN PUT IN THE FREAKIN DEATH STARS!!!

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-25 06:16pm

The NEGs are pieces of irredeamable shit.

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2004-11-25 08:45pm

The new Character Guide, written by Daniel Wallace, was the only one worth the price, and so it was the only one I purchased. The rest, written by Haden Blackman, are beyond shit.

FedRebel · Post by **FedRebel** » 2004-11-25 08:54pm

Techno_Union wrote:I love them, but yes, the newer ones are some what dissapointing. THEY DIDN'T EVEN PUT IN THE FREAKIN DEATH STARS!!!

The New Essential guide to Weapons and Tech deals with the DS's in a super weapons section

Cabwi Desco · Post by **Cabwi Desco** » 2004-11-25 09:00pm

what about the old ones? they were great werent they?

other than that i never got the New essential Guide to characters, i didnt think it worth it fearing the results from NEG V&V, and i for one thought the Vong ships couldnt look less like their NJO descriptions.

the few things i thought were remotely interesting in NEG V&V? acclamator, chiss, and k-wing. nothing more.

thats it i'm done

JediMaster415 · Post by **JediMaster415** » 2004-11-25 09:00pm

I have the NEG to Characters and the NEG to Vehicles and Vessels. I haven't been able the Weapons and Technology, yet. I like the new Ships guide, as well as, the Characters guide. Everything has its use for me.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-11-25 09:25pm

FedRebel wrote:
Techno_Union wrote:I love them, but yes, the newer ones are some what dissapointing. THEY DIDN'T EVEN PUT IN THE FREAKIN DEATH STARS!!!
The New Essential guide to Weapons and Tech deals with the DS's in a super weapons section

I take it that is not out yet?

Wild Karrde · Post by **Wild Karrde** » 2004-11-25 09:31pm

Techno_Union wrote:
FedRebel wrote:
Techno_Union wrote:I love them, but yes, the newer ones are some what dissapointing. THEY DIDN'T EVEN PUT IN THE FREAKIN DEATH STARS!!!
The New Essential guide to Weapons and Tech deals with the DS's in a super weapons section
I take it that is not out yet?

It's been around for quite some years now.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-11-25 09:40pm

Wild Karrde wrote:
Techno_Union wrote:
FedRebel wrote: The New Essential guide to Weapons and Tech deals with the DS's in a super weapons section
I take it that is not out yet?
It's been around for quite some years now.

He said the *New* Essential Guide to Weapons and Tech. I know of the first one (I own it along with every other Essential Guide), but I thought, based on the "New," that is was a different book, a newer one.

Wild Karrde · Post by **Wild Karrde** » 2004-11-25 09:47pm

Techno_Union wrote:
Wild Karrde wrote:
Techno_Union wrote: I take it that is not out yet?
It's been around for quite some years now.
He said the *New* Essential Guide to Weapons and Tech. I know of the first one (I own it along with every other Essential Guide), but I thought, based on the "New," that is was a different book, a newer one.

Fuck, missed the "New" part of it.

Oh well. The ICS, ITWs, and VDs still kick the crap out of the EGs.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-11-25 09:56pm

Back in the day they were my favorite source for information and I liked reading them. Then once the ICS's came out and I found this place and learned a few things I realized what poor sources they are with the fallacies and ignorant mistakes they have.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-11-25 10:37pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The NEGs are pieces of irredeamable shit.

Not totally. I've derived a number of useful tidbits from some of them, although I doubt some of it was deliberate. Maybe you just don't know where to look or how to piece those tidbits together.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-11-25 10:49pm

Icehawk wrote:Back in the day they were my favorite source for information and I liked reading them. Then once the ICS's came out and I found this place and learned a few things I realized what poor sources they are with the fallacies and ignorant mistakes they have.

I still love reading them, but the ICS are so much better to read. But I do fall back on the Essentials when I want to look at more ships, more tech, more ect.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-25 10:59pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:The NEGs are pieces of irredeamable shit.
Not totally. I've derived a number of useful tidbits from some of them, although I doubt some of it was deliberate. Maybe you just don't know where to look or how to piece those tidbits together.

I'm exaggerating. They really are quite bad, even as far as SW secondary sources have often gone.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-11-25 11:13pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
I'm exaggerating. They really are quite bad, even as far as SW secondary sources have often gone.

Actually not really. The primary value of a source is dependent upon what sorts of info you can derive from it and how it can work with existing sources, rather than "who" puts them out. For example, I have historically derived much more useful material from, say, the essential guides to weapons and technology than I have from the Ep1 Visual Dictionary, or the EP1 ICS, or the Ep1 ITW book - which really made them rather worthless buys for me. (AT least with the NEGW&T, I was able to officially establish fleet combat ranges in excess of 200,000 kilometers or more in conjunction with "The Last Command" - 180,000 km being given as a range for the KDY-150 planet defender ion cannon, which visually and textually are known to be the ion weapons defending Coruscant. If you recall, when Thrawn attacked, his fleet was well beyond effective range of the ion cannons and turbolasers, yet they were able to fire on NR vessels docked in low-orbit stations even very early in the battle.)

Even books like the AOTC ICs or ITW: OT books, even if written by Curtis, can be filled with problematical or bad data.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-11-27 11:51pm

I thought the NEGVV mediocre (esp. the art) and the NEGWT pretty poor. I did like the Characters one, though.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-11-27 11:59pm

phongn wrote:I thought the NEGVV mediocre (esp. the art) and the NEGWT pretty poor. I did like the Characters one, though.

Yeah I would say the characters one is the most usefull since IIRC nothing in it really contradicts with any established canon fact or basic logic like the other ones do.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-11-28 10:24am

The art is actually pretty decent as well.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-11-28 11:39am

I just think that they should have waited to start the NEGs until Epi. III and the NJO were finished. Both the NEGtC and the NEGtV&V are already outdated.