Emporer Palpatine was a good guy:

[Lord Darkblade]

Ran a search to see if this had been posted before however I could not see anything so here goes:

Emporer Palpatine was a good guy.

He was an exceptionally powerful force user who could predict the future to a good extent. Seeing the upcoming invasion in the EU by the Vong he began to create a government and army capable of stopping them. Realising that the Jedi were not suited to combating the Vong in their current state he erradicated most of them except for a few strong lines and the son of his henchman who he knew was a powerful Jedi.

Reasoning:

Palpatine could predict the future with some certainty up until his death.

The Imperial army would have fared much better than the republic as it was united under 1 commander in chief while the republic was divided.

Super Weapons such as the Death Star and the Sun Crusher could be used to remove the threat posed by Vongformed worlds and also by the apeparance of their fleets.

His hands (Mara Jade + others) were trained as commandos and also as ruthless assassins but also as dirty fighters so could combat the Vong... you don't need to feel them to smack them with lightning or rocks!

Eradicating the Jedi order neutralised the force, the balance of 2 sith to many Jedi was unbalanced and led to the force being characterised as black and white, instead there are many shades that should be balanced. The Jenai (sp) were "sith" trained force users who were undeniably "good".

When the Jedi Order was to be reformed it could have a balance of dark and light (Luke and Vader) as well as other shades brought by the remaing Jedi.

Thrawn and others created effective listening posts in the unknown regions to watch for unknown aggressors, if this was not a buffer why not just expand into them?

The Outbound Flight project failed due to disruptions at the edge of the galaxy... however if Palpatine knew why they were stopped (the Vong smacked em ) then he knew they were coming and had time to prepare.

Finally: He created a massive armed force that could subdue massive parts of the Galaxy and present a massed force, no force in the Galaxy could oppose his combined might or even just parts of it so why did he need such a large force unless he needed it for some important task?

Any thoughts?

(Edit: Objects to being a redshirt... is obviously a gold shirt... no more survivability but I get a cooler starship )

[Chris OFarrell]

There is absoloutly no evidence that he knew of the Vong in any way and in lack of that proof, he didn't know. The superweapons (at least according to the EU, who knows what may happen in Episode III) were built on Tarkens suggestion to install fear and terror in the population and better secure the Galaxy for the Emperor. Not to fight off a distant extra galactic invasion. Palpy didn't even KNOW about the Sun Crusher. The Eye of Palpatine was designed to crush Jedi IIRC, not Vong.

The outbound flight project had nothing to do with the Vong, Thrawn simply blew them to all hell after beign convinced by Palpys friends that they were a large threat.

The Jedi order was wipped out because Palpatine was a Sith Lord who wanted to rule the Galaxy as an imortial Emperor for eternity with a Dark Side legion of followers, not to balance the Force.



So no, Palpitine was NOT a good guy.

[Lord Darkblade]

Lack of proof is not equal to it not being true, what I have said (possibly bar a few) fits with all of the canon about the Emporer and the Empire... who is to say that he did not know and geared an Empire towards it?

[Chris OFarrell]

Lack of proof is not equal to it not being true,

For all intents and purposes, yes it is. Lack of proof means its pure speculation and building a case that palpy was a good guy on it means your entire argument is bassed on a false premise. Palpitine had no inclining of the Vong, multiple sources make clear his goal was the material and spiritual domination of the Galaxy. Period.

[Deathstalker]

The Emporer may be able to see the future, but 50+ years into the future is a bit of a stretch. And no other Jedi from Yoda on down never had an inkling. Besides the Vong not being active in the Force, I would think it would be hard to see something that is not there. Palpy was never out to save the galaxy, only rule it unopposed for eternity.

[Praxis]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that a comic had Nom Anor disguised as one of the Emperor's (or reborn Emperor's) advisors. Perhaps he figured it out from sensing Nom Anor?

[JME2]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that a comic had Nom Anor disguised as one of the Emperor's (or reborn Emperor's) advisors. Perhaps he figured it out from sensing Nom Anor?

No, it was Xandel Carivus during Crimsom Empire II, though we know Nom Anor was operating in the GFFA for decades (This is an example of why I'd love a SW novel set along the lines of the Eugenics Wars novels, to see the inital investigations by Anor and to witness the events of AOTC/ROTS and the OT from their point of view).

[Howedar]

I fail to see how annihilating a peaceful, inhabited planet is a non-evil thing to do. Furthermore Dark Empire is very in-depth about the evil shit Palpatine was going to do in the GFFA had he had time.

[consequences]

Oh, fuck that, I've been called an Imperial Apologist , and I have no problem saying that Palpatine was an evil bastard. Also more than a bit of a dick, executing an engineer repeatedly because your subordinates can't manage their shit is not something that should be done, once is sufficent for motivational purposes.

[Keevan_Colton]

Lack of proof is not equal to it not being true, what I have said (possibly bar a few) fits with all of the canon about the Emporer and the Empire... who is to say that he did not know and geared an Empire towards it?

Let me offer you this friendly advice, look to the Thrawn duology for some stuff to support your position. It isnt much, but it's better than the rest of what you've got.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

This is just like those Tranformers fans that seriously believe that the Decepticons were heroes battling against oppressive Autobots, of course ignoring key facts such as that the 'Cons were arrogant genocidal tyrants and the 'Bots were compassionate peacefighters who embraced freedom.

If you ignore all the stuff that actually matters, anything can be twisted into rationalisation.

[Solauren]

Emporer Palpatine was a good guy.

Okay, you are on crack, but this should be fun anyway

He was an exceptionally powerful force user who could predict the future to a good extent. Seeing the upcoming invasion in the EU by the Vong he began to create a government and army capable of stopping them.

Um, no. He was out to gain power and used the political corrupt in the government to seize control of it to rule.

Realising that the Jedi were not suited to combating the Vong in their current state he erradicated most of them except for a few strong lines and the son of his henchman who he knew was a powerful Jedi.

Actually, Palpatine tried to have them all killed as Vengence for what the Jedi did to the Sith order(s) over the past 10,000 years or so. If he couldn't turn them to the Dark Side, he killed them.
And he didn't know about Luke Skywalker until well after Luke had blown the first Death Star to hell.

Palpatine could predict the future with some certainty up until his death.

True to an extent. Also having the Prophets of the Dark Side working for him helped. 1 man might error. 5000 seeing the same thing, odds are it's gonna happen.

The Imperial army would have fared much better than the republic as it was united under 1 commander in chief while the republic was divided.

True enough

Super Weapons such as the Death Star and the Sun Crusher could be used to remove the threat posed by Vongformed worlds and also by the apeparance of their fleets.

True, but that was not there intent.
They were created at the suggestion of Grand Moff Tarkin 20 years after the Emperoer seized power. They were part of the Tarkin Docutrine of 'Rule through Fear of Force rather then Force itself'. The Death Star could scare any world into line.

His hands (Mara Jade + others) were trained as commandos and also as ruthless assassins but also as dirty fighters so could combat the Vong... you don't need to feel them to smack them with lightning or rocks!

There were trained to kill Jedi, Force Users not under Palpatine's command, Imperial Officials that got to ambitious, and crime lords.
Basically, they were merely Elite Special Forces.

Eradicating the Jedi order neutralised the force, the balance of 2 sith to many Jedi was unbalanced and led to the force being characterised as black and white, instead there are many shades that should be balanced. The Jenai (sp) were "sith" trained force users who were undeniably "good".

It didn't neutralize the Force. The end of the true Sith order on the 2nd Death Star with Darth Vader killing Palpatine, becoming the Sith Master, then turning to the Light side did that.

The Jensaari were not Sith trained. To be Sith trained, a Sith would have to teach them. They incorporated a few Sith teachings, nothing more.

When the Jedi Order was to be reformed it could have a balance of dark and light (Luke and Vader) as well as other shades brought by the remaing Jedi.

Palpatine was considering reforming the SITH order, not the Jedi.

Thrawn and others created effective listening posts in the unknown regions to watch for unknown aggressors, if this was not a buffer why not just expand into them?

Because Palpatine wasn't interesting into expanding into the Unknown Regions until he had the known regions fully under his control. i.e post Rebellion, with an operational Death Star to deal with annoyances

The Outbound Flight project failed due to disruptions at the edge of the galaxy... however if Palpatine knew why they were stopped (the Vong smacked em ) then he knew they were coming and had time to prepare.

WRONG
Grand Admiral Thrawn destroyed the Outbound Flight project when he was still part of the Chiss Defense Force, at the urging of one of Palpatine's advisors. That's the start of why Thrawn was booted from the Chiss in the first place.

Finally: He created a massive armed force that could subdue massive parts of the Galaxy and present a massed force, no force in the Galaxy could oppose his combined might or even just parts of it so why did he need such a large force unless he needed it for some important task?

Simple. If he controlled a military that was to big for anyone to defeat, he'd crush any uprisingings so fast it would be like a human popping a pimple.

Any thoughts?

Your lack of knowlege of the EU is stagering, as is your knowledge of Palpatine's character.

[PainRack]

Well............... there is the ISB throwaway line that the Empire military was buffed up to meet an "unknown, alien threat'.

However, the way the phrase was constructed appeared to indicate that it was an excuse to militarise the Empire.

[Illuminatus Primus]

It never says that; it only says the Navy is prepared to defend against internal and external threats.

And go to http://www.domuspublica.net/ , go to Analysis, and Leviathan, and to the Section III: The Apotheosis of Palpatine.

And then you will have a good idea of what Palpatine really was and what he wanted.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Well, I welcome you. You will have a very tough life ahead of you, because this is a real minority group we are talking here.

We are already very much hated by everyone else who prefers to see the world as black and white. SO I'd give you a one hint:

Don't say things that are clearly untrue: Such as who killed the Outbound Flight Project, that Palpy wanted a Balance rather than Darkness (which he believes to be glorious), and the deterrent role that the superweapons and the fleets played. Or what Palpy wants to do ultimately.

You may try to exploit the uncertainty zone. The best one might be able to say is that before Palpy got totally into the Dark Side (if there was ever such a time), he might have had a vision. He won't be able to see the Vong directly, but he would be able to see what "someone extragalactic" would do to the galaxy. And it is true that the Old Republic was in decline. So he sets out to try and set it straight, hook or crook, as long as it stops those "extragalactics" But even if that's so, somewhere along the way, that part is lost in the Background of Darkness and Sith teachings for the need of Vengeance for Jedi attempts to murder them.

Many of the tools the Emperor created will no doubt be useful for dealing with the Vong. That's the nature of weapons, a double-edged sword. A tool created for Defence can be used for Suppression and Vice Versa. Don't pretend the suppressions never took place, or they were never meant for such. It is too much of a pill for anyone to swallow.

Most people don't think the Empire is an ideal environment. Its retaliations are draconian, and its liberal reclassifications of non-human species as non-sapient (so they can be legally "domesticated") is nothing to be admired. As for the massacres, well, the Rebels might have provoked them, but one can still wonder whether there would be quite so much Rebellion activity had the Empire loosened its grip by a few bars (the pressure unit).

If the Empire is the only system under which the galaxy can gain enough cohesion to efficiently smash a one-planet comprable-tech enemy like the Vong (which will be a really sad statement for the GFFA galaxy), it still doesn't mean the Imperial system is great. And it certainly doesn't compute that the guy promoting, establishing and sitting on top of said Empire didn't do it for his own ends.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I doubt even the Galactic Republic would've sucuumbed to the Vong like the New Republic did. The Vong were lucky, or had been intentionally waiting and aggrivating the situation or both, and attacked when the central government was deeply corrupt, factionalized, and incompetent while the galaxy was still pretty trashed and weakened from decades of war.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I doubt even the Galactic Republic would've sucuumbed to the Vong like the New Republic did. The Vong were lucky, or had been intentionally waiting and aggrivating the situation or both, and attacked when the central government was deeply corrupt, factionalized, and incompetent while the galaxy was still pretty trashed and weakened from decades of war.

To be fair and honest, nobody would have predicted (at least from the very limited info we were given) even the NR could have sucked that much until it happened. One would think something like Serndipal would bring up memories of old Aldie in a Pearl Harbor style wave of anger. It is cute how the destruction of one planet landed all the blame on the Imps, and in the destruction of another, people can actually think how some of the blame might fall on themselves (or the Jedi).

[Illuminatus Primus]

I doubt even the Galactic Republic would've sucuumbed to the Vong like the New Republic did. The Vong were lucky, or had been intentionally waiting and aggrivating the situation or both, and attacked when the central government was deeply corrupt, factionalized, and incompetent while the galaxy was still pretty trashed and weakened from decades of war.

To be fair and honest, nobody would have predicted (at least from the very limited info we were given) even the NR could have sucked that much until it happened. One would think something like Serndipal would bring up memories of old Aldie in a Pearl Harbor style wave of anger. It is cute how the destruction of one planet landed all the blame on the Imps, and in the destruction of another, people can actually think how some of the blame might fall on themselves (or the Jedi).

I figure its because Sernpidal was a planet of silly pronvicals (Outer Rim backwater), and Alderaan was a shining pillar of culture, art, and....money.

[Enforcer Talen]

Im beginning to think I argue the imperials as not the best that can be done, but the best that we;ve seen in sw.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The ancient (pre-Ruusan) Republic was probably better; after all this entity stood robust for 24,000 years before faltering. It had to work pretty damn well.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

The ancient (pre-Ruusan) Republic was probably better; after all this entity stood robust for 24,000 years before faltering. It had to work pretty damn well.

True, but to be fair, the scan back then was of much lower resolution, with years, decades, century and even millenia between known events (see the TIMETALES record), with many only having a single record, so they (and their precise performance) cannot be examined with the same overlapping scrutiny we can with the Empire or the New Republic. All we knew is that it didn't fall apart.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Longevity, combined with the same basic civilization and the same technology base (ref: AOTC ICS) is a compelling argument, in of itself.

[Crazedwraith]

True, but that was not there intent.
They were created at the suggestion of Grand Moff Tarkin 20 years after the Emperoer seized power. They were part of the Tarkin Docutrine of 'Rule through Fear of Force rather then Force itself'. The Death Star could scare any world into line.

AOTC would cast this in to doubt. Has Palpy even noticed tarkin as of AotC, yet he's still Designing Death Stars.

[Enforcer Talen]

anyone want to dig up the current history of the design of the death star? its about a page long by now iirc, involving nearly every bad character in sw

[The Dark]

Didn't Anakin/Vader know that there was a really powerful alien race out there after the Zenoma Sekot adventure? If he told the Emperor about that (very likely, given the relationship they had), then that could explain part of the Imperial militarization. Similarly, part of it was to keep the S'si-Ruuk peaceful over by Bakura, as we see in Truce. Palpy was still an overly militaristic bastard, but some of it was justified.