Response to "Stas Bush"

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-12-01 10:48am

This was in a locked thread, but I felt it merited a response.

Hurra-patriotism is dangerous. Not even anywhere near to real patriotism, it's sort of a brain dysfunction.
Quote:
I'm just sick and tired of those that take no responsibility for the world

Yeah, I wonder when exactly did the "world" (do you seriosly mean "the world", or just kidding?) ask the United States to be responsible for it?
The "world" is a bunch of different sovereign states. Each can take care of itself in the most cases.

Anytime a major disaster happens, war, plague, etc. Everyone comes crying to the U.S. for assistance. We give out more foreign aid than any nation in the world. Many nations rely on us to back their feeble militarys with men and equipment.

And while many nations can take care of themselves most of the time, when they do get into trouble they probably aren't calling China or France to come save them (with few exceptions).

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-12-01 10:56am

Anytime a major disaster happens, war, plague, etc. Everyone comes crying to the U.S. for assistance.

That are the "benefits" of calling oneself a world superpower and being the "world police". Communist regimes and revolutioners also ran for help to the USSR, when it was "alive and well".
But "crying for help" is not the same as asking "to be cared for". Help can come in many ways.

I don't mind receiving help in various forms of financial aid.
But I do mind receiving a "help" in the form of intervention into inner politics of a sovereign state.

We give out more foreign aid than any nation in the world.

While I do believe that, I would like even a small link to statistics.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-12-01 11:40am

Stas Bush wrote:
Anytime a major disaster happens, war, plague, etc. Everyone comes crying to the U.S. for assistance.
That are the "benefits" of calling oneself a world superpower and being the "world police". Communist regimes and revolutioners also ran for help to the USSR, when it was "alive and well".
But "crying for help" is not the same as asking "to be cared for". Help can come in many ways.

Lets make this clear. You don't just "call yourself a superpower". You either are one, or you arent. China is near what I would consider a super power, and no one goes to them for assistance. And yes if you ran a communist regime, you could run to the USSR for certain types of assistance, such as several tanks, fighter jets, and missles to "defend your territory", but the Russians weren't sending vast sums of aid to Africa to feed the hungry.

I don't mind receiving help in various forms of financial aid.
But I do mind receiving a "help" in the form of intervention into inner politics of a sovereign state.

So its fine to take our money, but you don't have to listen to us in any way in regard to how it is spent. And its all well and good to allow citizens of another nation to suffer under tyranny, so long as its done by their own "sovereign" government and not someone elses. And it doesn't matter if "sovereign government" is simply the most recent thug to run the military.

We give out more foreign aid than any nation in the world.

While I do believe that, I would like even a small link to statistics.[/quote]

Its common knowledge. Would you ask someone for a link to prove that the Boston Red Sox won the world series this year? If you want exact figures, google it.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2004-12-01 11:43am

Admiral_K wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:
We give out more foreign aid than any nation in the world.
While I do believe that, I would like even a small link to statistics.

Its common knowledge. Would you ask someone for a link to prove that the Boston Red Sox won the world series this year? If you want exact figures, google it.

Never say anything you not prepared to Google yourself

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2004-12-01 12:54pm

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/aid/fy2002part17.pdf

"The U.S. foreign-aid budget as a percentage of gross national product (GNP) ranks last among the world’s wealthiest countries (at about 0.1 percent). *"In raw dollars, however, the United States is now the world’s top donor of economic aid," although for more than a decade it was second to Japan, which is far smaller and has been beset by economic woes. In 2001, the United States gave $10.9 billion, Japan $9.7 billion, Germany $4.9 billion, the United Kingdom $4.7 billion, and France $4.3 billion. As a percentage of GNP, however, the top donors were Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Sweden. The tiny Netherlands (pop. 16.3 million) gave $3.2 billion in 2001—almost a third of what America contributed."

*"In raw dollars, however, the United States is now the world’s top donor of economic aid,"

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-12-01 03:46pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Admiral_K wrote:
Stas Bush wrote: Never say anything you not prepared to Google yourself

I am prepared to google it, but I don't feel I should have to provide links for common knowledge facts.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-12-01 03:53pm

EmperorChrostas the Cruel wrote:http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/aid/fy2002part17.pdf

"The U.S. foreign-aid budget as a percentage of gross national product (GNP) ranks last among the world’s wealthiest countries (at about 0.1 percent). *"In raw dollars, however, the United States is now the world’s top donor of economic aid," although for more than a decade it was second to Japan, which is far smaller and has been beset by economic woes. In 2001, the United States gave $10.9 billion, Japan $9.7 billion, Germany $4.9 billion, the United Kingdom $4.7 billion, and France $4.3 billion. As a percentage of GNP, however, the top donors were Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Sweden. The tiny Netherlands (pop. 16.3 million) gave $3.2 billion in 2001—almost a third of what America contributed."

*"In raw dollars, however, the United States is now the world’s top donor of economic aid,"

I also found a chart if anyone still wants to disbelieve the truth. The U.S. contribution has increased vastly more than any other nation.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelate ... sandGraphs

The figure I saw for 2004 was 17.4 Billion in foreign aid.

This also doesn't take into account the massive amounts of money spent by U.S. based and funded private organizations. And it also doesn't account for money we save other countries by providing a blanket of protection that in the past they would've had to pay for themselves.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-12-01 09:52pm

EmperorChrostas the Cruel
Thanks.
Admiral_K
Thank you as well.

Actually, I did not say I disbelieved it

Although there is something to note. In absolute figures (dollars) United States do give more aid than other countries. In relative figures (GNP%) - not really.

Lets make this clear. You don't just "call yourself a superpower". You either are one, or you arent.

"Superpower" is a vague term. Being a superpower is actually being considered by others as a superpower, to my mind. Now:

China is near what I would consider a super power, and no one goes to them for assistance.

How did you define China as a superpower? By their economy? Military? Population? And do countries consider China a superpower? Is China's economy anywhere near to that of the US? Or even of the former USSR? To be, you know, capable of giving such aid?

you could run to the USSR for certain types of assistance, such as several tanks, fighter jets, and missles to "defend your territory", but the Russians weren't sending vast sums of aid to Africa to feed the hungry

Yes. And did Africans run any communist regimes?

And its all well and good to allow citizens of another nation to suffer under tyranny, so long as its done by their own "sovereign" government and not someone elses.

Heard this one before. Each nation has the government is deserves. Until this nation violates international rights (begins a war, for example) where is the legitimate cause for intervention?