Almost half the British haven't heard of Auschwitz

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-12-02 05:47pm

Reuters wrote:The survey found that 45 percent of those surveyed had not heard of Auschwitz. Historians estimate that anywhere from one million to three million people, about 90 percent of them Jews, were killed there.

Among women and people younger than 35, 60 percent had never heard of Auschwitz, despite the recent popularity of films such as "Schindler's List," "Life is Beautiful" and "The Pianist," which depict the atrocities of the Holocaust.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-12-02 06:07pm

Beowulf wrote:
Reuters wrote:The survey found that 45 percent of those surveyed had not heard of Auschwitz. Historians estimate that anywhere from one million to three million people, about 90 percent of them Jews, were killed there.

Among women and people younger than 35, 60 percent had never heard of Auschwitz, despite the recent popularity of films such as "Schindler's List," "Life is Beautiful" and "The Pianist," which depict the atrocities of the Holocaust.

The Nazi Holocaust is fading away from memory as the survivors die out and their children grow old. It's too bad, but it's the natural progression of things.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-12-02 06:11pm

There are more pertinent things to remember, like the Battle of Endor for instance.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2004-12-02 06:12pm

This is odd...

we are taught the holocaust in primary school

I think its a case of people not knowing the name of the death camps. Not forgetting about the holocaust.

But by the time is was 17.. i'd be hard-pressed to find someone who hadn't heard of auschwitz

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-12-02 06:12pm

The Nazi Holocaust is fading away from memory as the survivors die out and their children grow old. It's too bad, but it's the natural progression of things.

It's not the "natural progression of things" to just forget a slaughter of that magnitude.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2004-12-02 06:15pm

Au... Shwitz? I thought that was a type of whipped cream?

Seriously, as long as you know of the holocaust and how evil it was, do specifics matter?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-12-02 06:28pm

Joe wrote:
The Nazi Holocaust is fading away from memory as the survivors die out and their children grow old. It's too bad, but it's the natural progression of things.
It's not the "natural progression of things" to just forget a slaughter of that magnitude.

Sure it is. People already don't remember a lot of the great slaughters of the 20th century such as Stalin's killing of millions of Russians through starvation as well as the plethora of genocides in Africa. To say nothing of the great historical purges such as Ghengis Khan's killing of millions in China and Persia.

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2004-12-02 06:44pm

Maybe its just an example of how self-centered people are becoming. Essentially it it hasnt been in the popular media, then they seem unlikely to know about, less care about it. It could be that the numbers are too vast to comprehend, or just apathy. While someone can be horrorfied at the butchering of a family with an axe, I dont think that same emotional response can be stirred by these mass-slaughters. I guess because its less personal.

Personally, I'll never forget about the horrors of the concentration camps, especially after talking with some vets who had liberated them, and even on survivor. And if I have kids, Ill be sure they know as well.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-12-02 07:16pm

Joe wrote: It's not the "natural progression of things" to just forget a slaughter of that magnitude.

How many great slaughters from 1000 years ago do you remember?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-02 07:22pm

Joe wrote:
The Nazi Holocaust is fading away from memory as the survivors die out and their children grow old. It's too bad, but it's the natural progression of things.
It's not the "natural progression of things" to just forget a slaughter of that magnitude.

So every large scale slaughter of human history should remain fresh in our minds? Don't be silly.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-12-02 07:25pm

SirNitram wrote:
Joe wrote:
The Nazi Holocaust is fading away from memory as the survivors die out and their children grow old. It's too bad, but it's the natural progression of things.
It's not the "natural progression of things" to just forget a slaughter of that magnitude.
So every large scale slaughter of human history should remain fresh in our minds? Don't be silly.

No, but one of the worst in history, and relatively recently, shouldn't be unknown though.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-12-02 07:41pm

Stormbringer wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Joe wrote: It's not the "natural progression of things" to just forget a slaughter of that magnitude.
So every large scale slaughter of human history should remain fresh in our minds? Don't be silly.
No, but one of the worst in history, and relatively recently, shouldn't be unknown though.

It's hardly unknown most Brits know about the holocaust it would seem that a large minority however don't know the name of individual camps so what? does that really matter? If Brits had to fill in their knowledge of the Nazi holocaust I'd rather they learnt something about the Roma and gay victims who so rarely get mentioned rather than being able to reel off a list of camp names.

It seems to me the BBC just released this stat to get a bit of free publicity for their knew series and that we don't see the stat for knowledge of the Nazi holocaust as a whole because it's so high as to be un-newsworthy.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-12-02 09:05pm

*Notes how everyone was up in arms over American students' ignorance of history, compares to this thread.* Right.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2004-12-02 09:07pm

Surely you can see the differance between not knowing of the details of the holocaust and not knowing of the holocaust at all?

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-12-02 09:24pm

As long as we remember the horrors, we do not need to know the names of camp something-or-another. Only that millions were murdered there.

The problem arises because forgetting details like these will inevitably lead to the forgetting of all the details, and then the entire trajedy itself.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

jcow79 · Post by **jcow79** » 2004-12-02 09:55pm

Perhaps a lot of the education among Brits of WWII focuses more on the events that occurred in their own country? I'm sure they cover the holocaust but when there's so many other details that are important to Brits the names of the camps seem less important. Where for us Americans things like Pearl Harbor, D-day and liberating the camps get more attention in our curriculum. The Brits experienced a much different war than the U.S. did so it seems natural to me there education would reflect that.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-12-02 10:06pm

Pcm979 wrote:Surely you can see the differance between not knowing of the details of the holocaust and not knowing of the holocaust at all?

Erm... NEVAH!

<-- Pays ruthless attention to detail.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-12-02 11:10pm

Joe wrote:
The Nazi Holocaust is fading away from memory as the survivors die out and their children grow old. It's too bad, but it's the natural progression of things.
It's not the "natural progression of things" to just forget a slaughter of that magnitude.

Read King Leopold's Ghost about what the Belgians did in Central Africa, resulting in 8-10 million dead Africans. It took a hundred years before the first book was written on the subject and it will take a hundred more before the next.

James Loewen had a three-stage formula for historical events that went something like this:

1) Those who remember the events first hand

2) Those who were children at the time and unaware of the events and the generation(s) after those who lived through the events, but those who knew the people in (1)

3) The next generations that come where most or all of those who are in category (1) are dead. In other words, the events have passed from living memory.

Right now, we are somewhere between (2) and (3) when it comes to WW2 and the Nazi Holocaust.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-12-02 11:48pm

I do not trust surveys.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-02 11:52pm

Stormbringer wrote:No, but one of the worst in history, and relatively recently, shouldn't be unknown though.

And you be sure and give a yell when the Holocaust is forgotten, Stormbringer.

Until then, could you perhaps limit your rebuttals to what is actually being discussed? Not knowing the name of one camp != Not knowing the Holocaust happened, how many died, or what sort of conditions led up to that collosal fuckup of human history.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-12-03 05:54am

Actually it is "the natural" way.
Do many people remember horrid crimes of colonial system? Racism?
Yes, they sure do, but as time passes, the "past crimes" become insignificant. People require a constant reminder.

By the way, how TF is "Pianist" contributes to knowing of Auschwitz, if in any way at all?
Actually "Pianist" could be even considered a "revisionist" movie, since nowhere does it explicitly mention extermination camps, only vague hints.
Thus no wonder that one cannot know neither names of camps nor the number of the killed through this movie.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2004-12-03 08:21am

Beowulf wrote:
Reuters wrote:The survey found that 45 percent of those surveyed had not heard of Auschwitz.

I wouldn't be suprised if we get similar numbers in other countries. The education system is in a bad shape in many countries.

Post by **Coyote** » 2004-12-03 08:51am

What about never having learned about certain mass slaughters in the first place? The Japanese treatment of the Chinese, as well as other Asians in general, during WW2 slips by with hardly a comment. Maybe a footnote on the "Rape of Nanking" as if that was a one-time event.

Ask an Armenian if he wants some Turkish Coffee... see what kind of reaction you get. My History Professor did in Jerusalem in the Armenian Quarter a few years ago-- he'll never make that mistake again... and that was from WW1, not centuries ago...

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-12-03 08:59am

Elfdart wrote: Read King Leopold's Ghost about what the Belgians did in Central Africa, resulting in 8-10 million dead Africans. It took a hundred years before the first book was written on the subject and it will take a hundred more before the next.

James Loewen had a three-stage formula for historical events that went something like this:

1) Those who remember the events first hand

2) Those who were children at the time and unaware of the events and the generation(s) after those who lived through the events, but those who knew the people in (1)

3) The next generations that come where most or all of those who are in category (1) are dead. In other words, the events have passed from living memory.

Right now, we are somewhere between (2) and (3) when it comes to WW2 and the Nazi Holocaust.

Living memory can be extended in certain unusual ways and provide a focal point for the collective memory, however. A good example of that is how the "last surviving southern civil war widow" proved to be a focal point of confederate romantics in the past decade or so. Of course, she was a young woman born after the civil war who had married an old man, and never actually experienced the event, but the simple fact that a "civil war widow" was still alive served as a sort of lightning rod for the collective memory. I really only think that the events of WWII will pass beyond the collective conscious of the nation into the realms of history very late in this century.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-12-03 09:08am

Actually Armenian genocide is pretty well-covered in the media in Russia, there are massive commemorations every year.
There's nothing strange people don't know. They're just too busy to know

There's also a good coverage of British atrocities in India (Russian media often remembers Ghandi), but who would even care?

For a person like me who spends days reading history books it may sound impossible for people not to know what happened "then".
But actually only a handful of people whom I know can even name the participants of World War One...

yes, and those who can are mostly historians.
A poll in Russia has shown recently that about 70% or so of school kids don't know even who Lenin was.

Too bad, but history should be preserved by historians, and by them only. The masses will never know or care for it anyway.

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