Aw what tha hell! Time for a classic SpaceBattles Debate!

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Post by Sea Skimmer »

SAMAS wrote:Well, let's use a comparison I did in the last time it happened on SpacBattles:

Okay, let's start here.

Let's look at a somewhat normal-level Pokemon. #81/#82: Magnemite/Magneton.

For those who don't follow the game, a Magnemite is a metal ball about a foot in diameter and weighing 13 pounds, with an eye-sensor in the center, a pair of screws under the eye, and a pair of horseshoe magnets on the sides. A Magneton is what happens when three Magnemites join together(or in the anime version, when one Magnemite buds off two more). It's an Electric type, also gaining the Steel type in Gold/Silver/Crystal.

As you may have guessed, Electric means it has the ability to toss lightning bolts around. Steel Type means that it's resistant to most mundande forms of kinetic and energy transfer(In other words, just hitting/shooting it doesn't help much), and it can't be poisoned at all. However, it has a severe weakness to Earth, Fire, and Chi(Fighting) Elemental energy. Not much else will work.

It's natural attacks are:

Tackle -- As the name might suggest, it slams into you. As Magnemite is, in effect, a steel ball, you can imagine it's going to hurt.

Thundershock -- A basic eletrical attack. Naturally, it hits you with a basic-sized lightning bolt.

Supersonic -- The Pokemon emits an extremely high-pitched directional wave of sound. This messes with the target, leaving it extremely disoriented.

Sonic Boom -- A blast of sonic energy that hits like a fist. Naturally, not very effective at anything after low levels.

Thunder Wave -- An electrical attack that fries the target's nervous system, leaving it parilyzed.

Lock On -- Exactly what it sounds like. The next attack won't miss.

Swift -- A basic energy attack using star-shaped projectiles.
Tri Attack(Crystal) -- A more advanced multi-elemental energy attack that can leave the target frozen, parilyzed, or on fire.

Screech -- A lound, high-pitched burst of sound that leaves the target off-balance and more vulnerable to attack.

Zap Cannon -- A massive, focused blast of electrical energy that while powerful, is very hard to aim accurately. See above for a way to solve that.

So what does that leave us with? A metal ball that can toss around electric and sound attacks.


Okay, so that was one of the less cute ones. Let's up the Kawaiiness Factor a bit, and go for a low-level one, like Butterfree.

As the name suggests, Butterfree is a giant Butterfly.

So let's look at it's attacks:

If it was trained from a little(and that's streching it) Caterpie, to Metapod, and all the way to Butterfree, I will have learned:

Tackle -- See Magnemite

String Shot -- Spits out a spray of sticky silk, wrapping it's opponent, and slowing it down until it can untangle itself.

Harden -- Just what it sounds like. Secretes additional chitin to toughen it's exoskeleton.

Confusion -- A medium-level Psychic attack(Damn, already?). Can leave the opponent disorented.

Poison Powder -- Scales on it's wings are toxic to the opponent....

Stun Spore -- ...Some scale toxins instead interfere with the opponent's nervous system,...

Sleep Powder -- ...while others have a tranquilizing effect.

Supersonic -- See Magnemite/Magneton.

Whirlwind -- The Pokemon generates a gust of wind that picks up the opponent, carrying it off. In game terms, it can blow away a 1500-lb Snorlax.

Gust -- A powerful blast of wind, striking with hurricane force. Air Elemental attack.

Psybeam -- A Strong Psychic Attack. Can also confuse the opponent.

Safeguard -- A protective field that protects the Pokemon from many lasting forms of damage. In the anime(3rd Movie), it was actually used by a Butterfree as a forcefield to protect it from a Pokemon's attacks.

Not bad, huh? And that's one of the little guys. Most Pokemon get worse as they get bigger.
Might be more impressive if Stormtrooper armor wouldn't provide protection from 2/3's of those. Course the thing are just going to be gunned down with blasters the second its out of the ball or kill enmass in a hail of flechette rockets,

* Pokemon cross multiple AT-AT's horizon line*

"Target, all units, maximum firepower."

The Pokemon are then vaporized. Pokemon fight at ranges of a coupe meters at most. The Imperials can throw the equivalent of 2000 pound bombs and up at them more then 17000 meters.
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Post by SirNitram »

The Netherese still kick Pokemon ass. Why? Easy.

They have life forces. Tolodine's Killing Wind is known even by the household supervisors of Archwizards. The Killing Wind simply snuffs out lifeforce.

Now, when the dead Pokemon are ressurected as undead to assault the remainder of the assault....
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Post by IDMR »

::invokes Physics and Mathematics, thus instantly negating everything in the field.

-NOTE: That was a comment directed at Nitram only, and should not be taken as a serious debate point
Last edited by IDMR on 2002-11-08 06:34pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SirNitram »

IDMR wrote:::invokes Physics and Mathematics, thus instantly negating everything in the field.
You are such a killjoy.
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Post by IDMR »

SirNitram wrote:
IDMR wrote:::invokes Physics and Mathematics, thus instantly negating everything in the field.
You are such a killjoy.
Let it be known that I kill more than joy! ::looking through the BANNED thread on the Science forum, trigger finger getting really itchy::
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Post by SirNitram »

IDMR wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
IDMR wrote:::invokes Physics and Mathematics, thus instantly negating everything in the field.
You are such a killjoy.
Let it be known that I kill more than joy! ::looking through the BANNED thread on the Science forum, trigger finger getting really itchy::
*sics Bob on IDMR's feet*
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Post by SAMAS »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
SAMAS wrote:Well, let's use a comparison I did in the last time it happened on SpacBattles:

Okay, let's start here.

Let's look at a somewhat normal-level Pokemon. #81/#82: Magnemite/Magneton.

For those who don't follow the game, a Magnemite is a metal ball about a foot in diameter and weighing 13 pounds, with an eye-sensor in the center, a pair of screws under the eye, and a pair of horseshoe magnets on the sides. A Magneton is what happens when three Magnemites join together(or in the anime version, when one Magnemite buds off two more). It's an Electric type, also gaining the Steel type in Gold/Silver/Crystal.

As you may have guessed, Electric means it has the ability to toss lightning bolts around. Steel Type means that it's resistant to most mundande forms of kinetic and energy transfer(In other words, just hitting/shooting it doesn't help much), and it can't be poisoned at all. However, it has a severe weakness to Earth, Fire, and Chi(Fighting) Elemental energy. Not much else will work.

It's natural attacks are:

Tackle -- As the name might suggest, it slams into you. As Magnemite is, in effect, a steel ball, you can imagine it's going to hurt.

Thundershock -- A basic eletrical attack. Naturally, it hits you with a basic-sized lightning bolt.

Supersonic -- The Pokemon emits an extremely high-pitched directional wave of sound. This messes with the target, leaving it extremely disoriented.

Sonic Boom -- A blast of sonic energy that hits like a fist. Naturally, not very effective at anything after low levels.

Thunder Wave -- An electrical attack that fries the target's nervous system, leaving it parilyzed.

Lock On -- Exactly what it sounds like. The next attack won't miss.

Swift -- A basic energy attack using star-shaped projectiles.
Tri Attack(Crystal) -- A more advanced multi-elemental energy attack that can leave the target frozen, parilyzed, or on fire.

Screech -- A lound, high-pitched burst of sound that leaves the target off-balance and more vulnerable to attack.

Zap Cannon -- A massive, focused blast of electrical energy that while powerful, is very hard to aim accurately. See above for a way to solve that.

So what does that leave us with? A metal ball that can toss around electric and sound attacks.


Okay, so that was one of the less cute ones. Let's up the Kawaiiness Factor a bit, and go for a low-level one, like Butterfree.

As the name suggests, Butterfree is a giant Butterfly.

So let's look at it's attacks:

If it was trained from a little(and that's streching it) Caterpie, to Metapod, and all the way to Butterfree, I will have learned:

Tackle -- See Magnemite

String Shot -- Spits out a spray of sticky silk, wrapping it's opponent, and slowing it down until it can untangle itself.

Harden -- Just what it sounds like. Secretes additional chitin to toughen it's exoskeleton.

Confusion -- A medium-level Psychic attack(Damn, already?). Can leave the opponent disorented.

Poison Powder -- Scales on it's wings are toxic to the opponent....

Stun Spore -- ...Some scale toxins instead interfere with the opponent's nervous system,...

Sleep Powder -- ...while others have a tranquilizing effect.

Supersonic -- See Magnemite/Magneton.

Whirlwind -- The Pokemon generates a gust of wind that picks up the opponent, carrying it off. In game terms, it can blow away a 1500-lb Snorlax.

Gust -- A powerful blast of wind, striking with hurricane force. Air Elemental attack.

Psybeam -- A Strong Psychic Attack. Can also confuse the opponent.

Safeguard -- A protective field that protects the Pokemon from many lasting forms of damage. In the anime(3rd Movie), it was actually used by a Butterfree as a forcefield to protect it from a Pokemon's attacks.

Not bad, huh? And that's one of the little guys. Most Pokemon get worse as they get bigger.
Might be more impressive if Stormtrooper armor wouldn't provide protection from 2/3's of those. Course the thing are just going to be gunned down with blasters the second its out of the ball or kill enmass in a hail of flechette rockets,

* Pokemon cross multiple AT-AT's horizon line*

"Target, all units, maximum firepower."

The Pokemon are then vaporized. Pokemon fight at ranges of a coupe meters at most. The Imperials can throw the equivalent of 2000 pound bombs and up at them more then 17000 meters.
AT-ATs? Pshh! I thought you were giving me a challenge.

I got Diglett, Dugtrio, and the other grounds on Eartquake duty to take care of that. Kinda hard to fight when the ground under your feet is going in several directions, especially when you're as top-heavy as an AT-AT.

After that, The Ice Pokemon freeze them over(we're talking blocks of Ice here), and anything that gets out...
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Post by SAMAS »

SirNitram wrote:The Netherese still kick Pokemon ass. Why? Easy.

They have life forces. Tolodine's Killing Wind is known even by the household supervisors of Archwizards. The Killing Wind simply snuffs out lifeforce.

Now, when the dead Pokemon are ressurected as undead to assault the remainder of the assault....
So now you have Ghost Pokemon on your ass. Nice move. :mrgreen:
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Post by white_rabbit »

Ahh, I remember Stomping the Pokemon with Titans....nothing like Overkill..
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Post by SirNitram »

SAMAS wrote:
SirNitram wrote:The Netherese still kick Pokemon ass. Why? Easy.

They have life forces. Tolodine's Killing Wind is known even by the household supervisors of Archwizards. The Killing Wind simply snuffs out lifeforce.

Now, when the dead Pokemon are ressurected as undead to assault the remainder of the assault....
So now you have Ghost Pokemon on your ass. Nice move. :mrgreen:
Rebuke Undead

Next victim...
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Post by IDMR »

white_rabbit wrote:Ahh, I remember Stomping the Pokemon with Titans....nothing like Overkill..
::Readies Imperator titan::
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Post by SAMAS »

white_rabbit wrote:Ahh, I remember Stomping the Pokemon with Titans....nothing like Overkill..
Funny, I remember:

A). Dropping said Titans into a crack in the earth

B). Turning them into giant crystal Statues
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Post by white_rabbit »

IDMR wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:Ahh, I remember Stomping the Pokemon with Titans....nothing like Overkill..
::Readies Imperator titan::


I used Abominatus, Despoiler of worlds :D
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Post by SAMAS »

SirNitram wrote:
SAMAS wrote:
SirNitram wrote:The Netherese still kick Pokemon ass. Why? Easy.

They have life forces. Tolodine's Killing Wind is known even by the household supervisors of Archwizards. The Killing Wind simply snuffs out lifeforce.

Now, when the dead Pokemon are ressurected as undead to assault the remainder of the assault....
So now you have Ghost Pokemon on your ass. Nice move. :mrgreen:
Rebuke Undead
Too Late. Hypnosis + Nightmare/Dream Eater

Or:

Shadow Ball

Pain Split

Night Shade.

Etc...

You may be able to keep them away for a while, but they can still attack. Even from below...

Oh yeah, I forgot that.

Sandslash or Dugtrio from Below + Slash

Or.

Psychic Type teleports back in, and attacks.(Heaven forbid they get a Future Sight in...)

Or You Get Destiny Bonded(If I go, you[/i] go!) or a Perish Song(Shortly after hearing the song, you go down)...
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Post by SirNitram »

None of these attacks are all that bad, compared to Phaerimm, Illithids, Baatezu, Tanar'ri, Pissed Off Elves, Lichs, Nether Zombies, or an occasional Wildspace power. Quite frankly, any half-decent Arcanist could erect a Prismatic Sphere and be immune to your assaults, while still hurling assaults.

And the concept of a Pokemon beating a 20+ level mage on the initiative is funny.
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Post by Andrew J. »

If were to make an unflattering comparison between Digimon and Pokemon, would Sammy here go ballistic?
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Post by Mr Bean »

Probably not however I will bow to this insanity

Anyway onto the subject at hand a few more things then to make my WWII based forces get the win with less than twenty men and almost modern day Tecnology

Ok Its a MG-42 Double Staggered Position meaning 14 men in Double stagered positions, IE one above the other with two freelancers, the Guns are sitatued as such that either can be fired as long as the other is ducking behind thier MG.

Basicly two and a quater feet of clearance between the two but then they are set up to so that the fields of fire overlap without the guns acutal phyiscaly overlap

In the middle we will have a double Flack-38 Position set up to take down any Flyers that attack as maned by two memebers of the Ghost Busters Team while other two are alive and looking for the Ghost Types

The Remaing two freelancers are armed with P-90 Submachineguns which has both an excelent firing rate plus a large clip, They are to change barrels on any overheated MGs use any of the Aviable Panzasfausts if nessary and replace any of the fallen


Mounted around my Bunker (As it has devolped) will be revesred anti Panzer Tank mines with hair triggers for the underground ones

Think Depth Charges and those diggers are the fish

BTW as a extra condition the MG42s(Reason I chose those) is because the fact its aircooled means a great deal of heat is impossed on the Bullets meaning they hit targets and are between 200-700 Degrees Farahight meaning we can basicly count them as Fire/Kenetic weaponry ;)

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Post by SAMAS »

SirNitram wrote:None of these attacks are all that bad, compared to Phaerimm, Illithids, Baatezu, Tanar'ri, Pissed Off Elves, Lichs, Nether Zombies, or an occasional Wildspace power. Quite frankly, any half-decent Arcanist could erect a Prismatic Sphere and be immune to your assaults, while still hurling assaults.

And the concept of a Pokemon beating a 20+ level mage on the initiative is funny.
Well, if you're going to punk out and go Munchkin like that, Meet the Lvl. 225 MewTwo(Yes, in the GB games, you can go all the way up to 225, ad they keep growing). :mrgreen:
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Post by Hotfoot »

SAMAS wrote:
SirNitram wrote:None of these attacks are all that bad, compared to Phaerimm, Illithids, Baatezu, Tanar'ri, Pissed Off Elves, Lichs, Nether Zombies, or an occasional Wildspace power. Quite frankly, any half-decent Arcanist could erect a Prismatic Sphere and be immune to your assaults, while still hurling assaults.

And the concept of a Pokemon beating a 20+ level mage on the initiative is funny.
Well, if you're going to punk out and go Munchkin like that, Meet the Lvl. 225 MewTwo(Yes, in the GB games, you can go all the way up to 225, ad they keep growing). :mrgreen:
You want munchkin? Epic-Level Baatezu Wizards/Sorcerers. Remember, monsters can gain levels just like PCs. Oh, and how about a TarrasquoLiche?

Oh, barring that, Dieties and Demigods. There, you're done, game over.
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Post by SAMAS »

Mr Bean wrote:Probably not however I will bow to this insanity

Anyway onto the subject at hand a few more things then to make my WWII based forces get the win with less than twenty men and almost modern day Tecnology

Ok Its a MG-42 Double Staggered Position meaning 14 men in Double stagered positions, IE one above the other with two freelancers, the Guns are sitatued as such that either can be fired as long as the other is ducking behind thier MG.

Basicly two and a quater feet of clearance between the two but then they are set up to so that the fields of fire overlap without the guns acutal phyiscaly overlap

In the middle we will have a double Flack-38 Position set up to take down any Flyers that attack as maned by two memebers of the Ghost Busters Team while other two are alive and looking for the Ghost Types

The Remaing two freelancers are armed with P-90 Submachineguns which has both an excelent firing rate plus a large clip, They are to change barrels on any overheated MGs use any of the Aviable Panzasfausts if nessary and replace any of the fallen


Mounted around my Bunker (As it has devolped) will be revesred anti Panzer Tank mines with hair triggers for the underground ones

Think Depth Charges and those diggers are the fish

BTW as a extra condition the MG42s(Reason I chose those) is because the fact its aircooled means a great deal of heat is impossed on the Bullets meaning they hit targets and are between 200-700 Degrees Farahight meaning we can basicly count them as Fire/Kenetic weaponry ;)
Easy Way:
Golem, Rhydon, Onix, Steelix, and Tyranitar run right over your position, occasionally blasting you with Hyperbeams Fearow, Pidgeot, and Aerodactyl provide suppourt with Whirlwinds, and Tyranitar's Sandstorm, to utterly fuck with your targeting.

Easier Way:
1 Dugtrio to go 5 miles underground, and undermine and Earthquake until the entire thing collapses

Rediculously Easy Way:
Long-range Aeroblast from Lugia

Cruel and Unusual Way:
Articuno Deep-freezes the lot of you from long range(How long? in Movie Two, he has a world-wide effect).

"Where's my Vlad Tepes Award?" Way:
Your Position and everyone in it are consumed in a spreading Crystal Effect courtesy of the Unoun
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Post by HemlockGrey »

-yawn-

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Post by SAMAS »

Hotfoot wrote:
SAMAS wrote:
SirNitram wrote:None of these attacks are all that bad, compared to Phaerimm, Illithids, Baatezu, Tanar'ri, Pissed Off Elves, Lichs, Nether Zombies, or an occasional Wildspace power. Quite frankly, any half-decent Arcanist could erect a Prismatic Sphere and be immune to your assaults, while still hurling assaults.

And the concept of a Pokemon beating a 20+ level mage on the initiative is funny.
Well, if you're going to punk out and go Munchkin like that, Meet the Lvl. 225 MewTwo(Yes, in the GB games, you can go all the way up to 225, ad they keep growing). :mrgreen:
You want munchkin? Epic-Level Baatezu Wizards/Sorcerers. Remember, monsters can gain levels just like PCs. Oh, and how about a TarrasquoLiche?

Oh, barring that, Dieties and Demigods. There, you're done, game over.
You DO realize that Anime-style MewTwo is a Planetary-Level threat, right?

We're talking Turn-you-to-stone, Wordwide-Hurricane-Making, Time-Warping, Mindfucking, Move-a-fucking-lake-under-a-mountain, Create-a-clone-army, And-the-only-people-who-even-remember-even-if-you-died-and-came-back-in-the-process-are-the-ones-he-wants-to Threat.
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Post by SAMAS »

Oh, and the Legendaries are essentially Deities and Demigods.
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Post by SAMAS »

SAMAS wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:Probably not however I will bow to this insanity

Anyway onto the subject at hand a few more things then to make my WWII based forces get the win with less than twenty men and almost modern day Tecnology

Ok Its a MG-42 Double Staggered Position meaning 14 men in Double stagered positions, IE one above the other with two freelancers, the Guns are sitatued as such that either can be fired as long as the other is ducking behind thier MG.

Basicly two and a quater feet of clearance between the two but then they are set up to so that the fields of fire overlap without the guns acutal phyiscaly overlap

In the middle we will have a double Flack-38 Position set up to take down any Flyers that attack as maned by two memebers of the Ghost Busters Team while other two are alive and looking for the Ghost Types

The Remaing two freelancers are armed with P-90 Submachineguns which has both an excelent firing rate plus a large clip, They are to change barrels on any overheated MGs use any of the Aviable Panzasfausts if nessary and replace any of the fallen


Mounted around my Bunker (As it has devolped) will be revesred anti Panzer Tank mines with hair triggers for the underground ones

Think Depth Charges and those diggers are the fish

BTW as a extra condition the MG42s(Reason I chose those) is because the fact its aircooled means a great deal of heat is impossed on the Bullets meaning they hit targets and are between 200-700 Degrees Farahight meaning we can basicly count them as Fire/Kenetic weaponry ;)
Easy Way:
Golem, Rhydon, Onix, Steelix, and Tyranitar run right over your position, occasionally blasting you with Hyperbeams Fearow, Pidgeot, and Aerodactyl provide suppourt with Whirlwinds, and Tyranitar's Sandstorm, to utterly fuck with your targeting.

Easier Way:
1 Dugtrio to go 5 miles underground, and undermine and Earthquake until the entire thing collapses

Rediculously Easy Way:
Long-range Aeroblast from Lugia

Cruel and Unusual Way:
Articuno Deep-freezes the lot of you from long range(How long? in Movie Two, he has a world-wide effect).

"Where's my Vlad Tepes Award?" Way:
Your Position and everyone in it are consumed in a spreading Crystal Effect courtesy of the Unoun
I forgot one:

Supreme Overkill Way
I don't use the Only-One-Of-Each rule. :mrgreen:
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Not an armored Jigglypuff

"I salute your genetic superiority, now Get off my planet!!" -- Adam Stiener, 1st Somerset Strikers
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Darth Wong
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Post by Darth Wong »

So Pokemon are powerful enough to kill guys with guns. So what? Since nobody gives a fuck about Pokemon, nobody should give a fuck about this thread either. He is only posting it to get a rise out of people; don't oblige him.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

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http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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