TPM vs AOTC

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2004-12-02 03:01am

Which is a better movie?

I know you are all going to kill me for this, but I liked the Phantom Menace better. Yes it is majorly flawed, more so than AOTC, but it also has higher points than AOTC which make up for its short comings. AOTC does not keep my intrest nearly as well as TPM. TPM has a greater rewatch value, you know whats going to happen, but it is still fun to watch (As childish and cheesey as some parts are). I do not get the same feeling from AOTC, you kind of just drudge along. Next are the Characters, I cannot think of one character that I particularly liked in AOTC, (or villians I loved to hate). In TPM, Qui Gon Jinn, seemed like a Jedi to me, and I personally liked his character, he seemed confident. Maul was a generic baddie, but he did have a sense of mystery about him. I have always maintained they killed off the 2 most intresting characters in TPM. AOTC Anakin was an arrogant spoiled teenaged brat, Obi Wan (as cool as he is in almost all the other movies) seemed to be a complaining fool always needing rescued (Its Obi Wan for god sakes!! he may need rescued once, but he should not need rescued 3 freaking times in one movie!! Did he even win a single fight in that movie, maybe the shape-shifting bounty hunter, but thats nothing special), and Natalie Portman, as hot as I think she is, that girl needs to learn how to make it look like she is running with a purpose, Christopher Lee, he was good, but did not spark the imagination as Maul did, and he too was just a generic baddie. The Climax, granted TPM used the classic Star Wars formula for the plot leading up to the space and ground battle, but it got at you all at once, and everyones victory was important with a tense feeling, and thier fates depending on each other. ATOC, the climax was in the wrong place, the highest point in the movie was when the Jedi were surrounded, and Yoda saves the day, from there everything felt like resolution. (The clones fighting the droids was not nearly as a desperate situation as the Gurgan battle). The final Duel seemed pointless in AOTC, it seemed very contrived, and almost a meaningless fight. For me it did not have the same flare or necessity as any of the other Lightsaber battles.

Thats my 2 cents on the 2 prequels, hopefully ROTS will blow both of them out of the water.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-12-02 03:41am

TPM reminded me of a kid cartoon movie

AOTC all the way

Thats my 2 cents on the 2 prequels, hopefully ROTS will blow both of them out of the water

agreed

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-12-02 05:59am

Funny enough, I´ve started to warm up to the idea that TPM is actually a better-made film than AOTC.

With TPM, Lucas came back to directing after 20 odd years, he´d been writing on it (and possibly other parts of the PT) since 1994 and I just get this feeling he put more heart into it than AOTC.

I think Lucas secretly panicked after the film was deemed a dissapointment and just rushed out alot of ideas for making the next one seem "cool". Not to mention the sheer schizofrenic nature of the love story/mystery/war movie, and the whole movie rushing along with one set piece after another.

Imho, TPM is a more solid film, but AOTC have better battles and action, so it´s 50-50.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-12-02 06:57am

Hmm...

TPM

Introduced Qui-gon Jinn, the venerable Jedi master who was a bit of a maverick. Showed us Obi-wan as a 'padawan' apprentice. I can't really fault him for doing it this way, as I liked seeing Obi-wan be the young, inexperienced apprentice.
Darth Maul was good, but i didn't mind his death. Some people complained that "OMG he killed off the most interesting villain ev4!!1" but really, he was just an assassin. These people ought to maintain some perspective.
The double blade lightsaber. I liked it for the unique look and feel. I would have liked to see a Jedi wield one, to cement the notion that it is not a Sith weapon, but somehow I doubt this will happen in ROTS. Fuck, if an entire arena full of Jedi didn't have one of these things, then I'm not holding out much hope.
The battles at the end were lackluster and uninspiring. I didn't like the fighter battle or the Gungan army.
That said, I did like the Queen's infiltration squad, and the Jedi/Sith duel.
Jake Lloyd was miscast.
Jarjar.
The plot itself isn't particularly enjoyable. Way too much exposition, handled in a clumsy manner that detracted from the viewing pleasure.

AOTC

Shows the relationship between Obi-wan and Anakin, and they act like two old couples. It's somewhat cute, but at times it feels strained. Take the early example of Anakin's insubordination, and Obi-wan insisting he 'follow his lead'. This exchange simply seemed uncomfortable and forced. Most of the film is like this, actually.
The Queen was a more enjoyable figure in this film. Maybe because she wasn't the Queen anymore, but Padme. This does make TPM somewhat hard to access though: throughout most of the film the Queen is this austere cold bitch who we don't really like, but by the end it's clear who we thought was the Queen was by no means certain; Padme herself doesn't seem warm but does seem more human.
The Battle was cooler, but I missed how we got no space battles.
The Duel at the end seemed to lack something, I don't know what. Closure? Passion? In any case, this duel was possibly my least favourite, although if I disregard Yoda's crack monkey antics then it is actually good.
Anakin's reaction to finding his mother dead by the hands of the Tuskens. I completely emphasise with his character.

I could go on but those are my initial thoughts. Personally I think they both did things wrong, but it's hard to tell which one is better than the other. AOTC seemed to be more enjoyable than TPM. I think I might just watch both again, it has been awhile since I've seen either one.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-02 07:01am

You mean empathise, not emphasise.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-12-02 07:04am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:You mean empathise, not emphasise.

This is why I like you: you're there to keep me on my toes. I put that typo in there on purpose, to see if you'd notice.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-12-02 08:27am

but I missed how we got no space battles.

Hey, ESB is like that as well...

The Duel at the end seemed to lack something, I don't know what. Closure? Passion? In any case, this duel was possibly my least favourite, although if I disregard Yoda's crack monkey antics then it is actually good.

Yoda Owned that duel, as he will in ROTS as well. (Ok, technically, he will be Owned there, but you know what I mean...

)

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-12-02 09:12am

VT-16 wrote:
but I missed how we got no space battles.
Hey, ESB is like that as well...

Well, we did get the Rebel's BFG shooting at the blockading fleet...

but yeah, no real space battles in ESB.

I see the movies as being written for two different purposes. TPM was a story in and of itself. Like ANH, it was a complete plot (however much or little it was liked), and wrapped itself up with a conclusion at the end.

AOTC is designed to set up ROTS, in a similar manner to how ESB set up ROTJ. It's not a complete plot, with too many loose ends and the beginning of a war that would have been a major feature if it were an individual unit rather than the first of a duology that probably will need to be seen together. It serves its purpose, and I think it may well be seen in a better light once ROTS comes out.

Admiral Bravo · Post by **Admiral Bravo** » 2004-12-02 10:04am

ATOC was a muh better movie than TPM. First off, Jar Jars screen time was cut down to a few sences, and the less we see of him the better. Plus the battle in TPM was lacking somewhat, and there also the fact that Darth Maul only had a line or two of diologe which sucks given the fact that if he had more lines he could made the duel more interesting by taunting Obi-Wan after he killed Qui-Gon.

P.S. first post!

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-12-02 12:29pm

AotC was a much better, deeper film than TPM. There is no real comparison possible.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-12-02 12:55pm

While AOTC built off of the flaws of TPM, the TPM was I agree a more solid film. As has been mentioned previously, I also hope ROTS blows them both out of the water.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-12-02 02:30pm

TPM's only real flaws were the stupid 9year old Anakin story arc, and the bubbling Jar Jar. Other than that, the movie was rich with beautiful scenery and plot.

AotC's really had a long set up and while the Clone battle at the end was really cool, the dual between Dooku and Obi and Anakin and Yoda was forced and not really believable. Line em up and knock them down.

All in all, I probably like AotC's better, but I like TPM alot too.

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2004-12-02 05:01pm

Admiral Bravo wrote:ATOC was a muh better movie than TPM. First off, Jar Jars screen time was cut down to a few sences, and the less we see of him the better. Plus the battle in TPM was lacking somewhat, and there also the fact that Darth Maul only had a line or two of diologe which sucks given the fact that if he had more lines he could made the duel more interesting by taunting Obi-Wan after he killed Qui-Gon.

P.S. first post! :P

I think Maul has the same appeal as Boba Fett in the original trilogy. Did not say much, but for whatever reason you knew he was a bad ass.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-12-02 07:15pm

At least someone shares my line of reasoning

Sam or I wrote:

TPM has a greater rewatch value, you know whats going to happen, but it is still fun to watch (As childish and cheesey as some parts are). I do not get the same feeling from AOTC, you kind of just drudge along.

AMEN! I can watch TPM several times a month without puking, but I can hardly watch AOTC start to finish at all, and I've not seen it in a while.

AOTC was certainly "cooler" but the diolog was so contrived it is actually a serious, serious flaw to me. Also, the use of real models in TPM resulted IMO in a much more realistic atmosphere visually. By comparison AOTC looks almost as fake as those old B movies with the ships on strings (this is probably a complaint reserved to me mostly; I find a fully CGI environment more disturbing a flaw than anyone I know. It just bugs me, I guess I notice where it falls short of reality more or something). Jar Jar was a silly way to execute a sound plot idea, but I do not find him as totally irritaing as some do. When he is unbearable I just look at the scenery or something and it's all good. Anikan is a far better child actor than many, and having a brother about his age I find much of what Anikan says believable (ok, the angel part was out of left field, but it only happened once). I cring when my brother says silly things too.

All in all, TPM was superior, it feels finished--and not just in the contained story sense--while AOTC feels like someone picked up reels from the cutting room and put them together. Or something to that effect.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-12-02 08:37pm

I have to agree with some of the comments here, however, I prefer AOTC.

Sure, the dialogue was wooden and they talked about the texture of sand as a pickup line, but otherwise I enjoyed it.

Rich scenery and environments, a plot in the beginning that generated real mystery to me, incredible action in the last half-hour, a short war arc which I liked, all the set-up for the next movie, etc.

Also, the scenes where Anakin goes to find his mother and then begins his spiral into the dark side by cutting down a whole village of Sand-people was great. I could empathise, and loved it.

TPM had many charms, but its many flaws ruined it for me.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-12-02 10:32pm

VT-16 wrote:
but I missed how we got no space battles.
Hey, ESB is like that as well...

Yeah, but I was perfectly fine with that because these were the first time we ever saw these thing. It was like, "Holy Shit! How will our heroes ever beat them?!" and it took the innovative tactics of the good guys to stop them.

Seems sort of similar to the Death Star run in ANH in a lot of repsects.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-12-02 11:40pm

The Silence and I wrote:At least someone shares my line of reasoning
Sam or I wrote:
TPM has a greater rewatch value, you know whats going to happen, but it is still fun to watch (As childish and cheesey as some parts are). I do not get the same feeling from AOTC, you kind of just drudge along.
AMEN! I can watch TPM several times a month without puking, but I can hardly watch AOTC start to finish at all, and I've not seen it in a while.

AOTC was certainly "cooler" but the diolog was so contrived it is actually a serious, serious flaw to me. Also, the use of real models in TPM resulted IMO in a much more realistic atmosphere visually. By comparison AOTC looks almost as fake as those old B movies with the ships on strings (this is probably a complaint reserved to me mostly; I find a fully CGI environment more disturbing a flaw than anyone I know. It just bugs me, I guess I notice where it falls short of reality more or something). Jar Jar was a silly way to execute a sound plot idea, but I do not find him as totally irritaing as some do. When he is unbearable I just look at the scenery or something and it's all good. Anikan is a far better child actor than many, and having a brother about his age I find much of what Anikan says believable (ok, the angel part was out of left field, but it only happened once). I cring when my brother says silly things too.

All in all, TPM was superior, it feels finished--and not just in the contained story sense--while AOTC feels like someone picked up reels from the cutting room and put them together. Or something to that effect.

Double-headed race announcer. I rest my case.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2004-12-03 02:21am

I hated both of these movies. Neither possessed the magic or the authentic feeling of the original trilogy. I'd put them both on par with Star Trek V: The one that Shatner directed...

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-12-03 07:31pm

Howedar wrote:

Double-headed race announcer. I rest my case.

Hehe, I forgot about that evil thing. Well that hurts the scre, but in the end I still can watch TPM without taking long breaks but AOTC is harder.

And to clarify, I think both sucked. A lot. TPM just sucked less.

Morilore · Post by **Morilore** » 2004-12-03 11:13pm

AOTC, far and away. TPM was a story about static characters going on an adventure. AOTC was a story about a padawan, a Jedi Order, and a galactic civilization descending into chaos and psychosis.

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-12-04 04:45pm

Sam Or I wrote:I think Maul has the same appeal as Boba Fett in the original trilogy. Did not say much, but for whatever reason you knew he was a bad ass.

Nah. Fett had just enough dialogue to make him interesting:

"No disintigrations."
*reluctance* "As you wish."

"What if he doesn't survive? He's worth a lot to me!"
(gotta hand it to a guy who'll say that to Darth fucking Vader of all people)

Maul just didn't. He was flat, a totally stereotypical Sith.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-12-04 08:46pm

Kuja wrote:Maul just didn't. He was flat, a totally stereotypical Sith.

I know what you mean. Maul didn't say much, and when he did say it, he didn't say anything worth much interest.

"At last we will have our revenge on the Jedi."

It just doesn't have the same oomph as Boba Fett going sullen when Vader points a finger at him and says "no disintegrations, dog."

I actually can't remember anything else Maul says. Does he even say anything beyond that line?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-12-04 08:51pm

Stofsk wrote:I actually can't remember anything else Maul says. Does he even say anything beyond that line?

Nothing else onscreen, though there were some additional lines in the Duel of the Fates music video; pretty much the Sith version of Yoda's Fear speech.