Post-NJO Speculation Thread (Spoilers)

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-20 10:15pm

Meh, is this a 'in my opinion is should go....'? If so, they could go two ways, but either way they go, a bunch of people need to retire. Han, Leia, Luke and Mara, Lando, Wedge and Tycho.

Truely, if this franchise wants to continue, they need to come up with some new character and/or expand on 3rd string guys.

So, anyway, I think they could do one of two things. First is the cheesy way and have a weak GFFA that could splinter or be manipulated for political reasons ala NR. It would suck, because it would just be a rehash of what happened in the last 20 years after the Battle of Endor.

The second, they can explore this 'new Jedi Order'. Follow the Order as they skitter about doing diplomacy, peace keeping, investigating, and exploring the Force.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-21 12:07am

Knife wrote:The second, they can explore this 'new Jedi Order'. Follow the Order as they skitter about doing diplomacy, peace keeping, investigating, and exploring the Force.

Luke's speech to the surviving Jedi Order at the end of The Unifying Force certainly sets the stage for a plot like to develop.

As for the main synopsis, it does feel somewhat like a return to the Bantam-era. That having been said, it should be interesting to see this Force adept; sounds like another Dooku/Nom Anor-type character stirring up trouble...

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-11-19 02:01pm

New information by LucasBooks' Sue Rostoni, from TheForce.net on the nine-book series following Denning's trilogy:

It is all coming together really well -- such a pleasure to have everyone here so we could have lively and open discussions. We now have strong story threads for the series, plus detailed plot points for the first three books, and high points for the remaining 6 books. We have the beginning, the middle, and the end, and the main story's backdrop (or physical setting). We'll be emailing around ideas, notes, and outlines now, fleshing things out even further before the actual writing begins.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-12-04 06:52pm

New data from NJOE:

Ben Skywalker will be 13 for the 9 book arc (at least at the start)
-Lots of surprises (well, that's not a surprise at all!)
-Someone's pregnant...
-Cliff Neilson will return to do artwork for the Denning Trilogy
-and Much, Much more!

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-12-04 08:42pm

JME2 wrote:New data from NJOE:

Ben Skywalker will be 13 for the 9 book arc (at least at the start)

Eh.

-Lots of surprises (well, that's not a surprise at all!)

No, it's not.

-Someone's pregnant...

Jaina got knocked up?

-Cliff Neilson will return to do artwork for the Denning Trilogy

Who?

-and Much, Much more!

...such as?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-12-04 08:50pm

Stofsk wrote:
-Someone's pregnant...
Jaina got knocked up?

I had a similiar thought. We'll just have to wait, won't we?

-Cliff Neilson will return to do artwork for the Denning Trilogy

Stofsk wrote:Who??

Cliff Neilson did the covers for the NJO hardcovers.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2004-12-04 08:51pm

Personally, I don't think that's a selling point. All the covers looked like a bad acid trip.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-12-04 08:55pm

Which covers, though? I mean, the Japanese covers are good. Really good. But the ones that I am most familiar with look like a 5 min photoshop job. I know it sounds ridiculous, and there's the saying 'never judge a book by it's cover' but I can't help but feel the NJO covers looking 'gimmicky'.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-12-04 08:59pm

Stofsk wrote:Which covers, though? I mean, the Japanese covers are good. Really good. But the ones that I am most familiar with look like a 5 min photoshop job. I know it sounds ridiculous, and there's the saying 'never judge a book by it's cover' but I can't help but feel the NJO covers looking 'gimmicky'.

The artist who drew the Japanese NJO covers is named Tsuyoshi Nagano -- and yes, I enjoyed them more too; why elese would they end up in my Best of Both Worlds fanart?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-12-04 09:56pm

I can only hope that the following things will be absent ...

Organic tech wanking. I stopped reading NJO because I thought the Yuuzhan Vong were shitty villains.

The movie characters. I. Am. Sick. Of. Reading. About. Them. Can we please write a Star Wars novel composed completely of original characters? Han Solo is pushing 60 for Christ's sakes. And he's still galavanting around in the Falcon?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-12-04 09:59pm

Durandal wrote:The movie characters. I. Am. Sick. Of. Reading. About. Them. Can we please write a Star Wars novel composed completely of original characters? Han Solo is pushing 60 for Christ's sakes. And he's still galavanting around in the Falcon?

Not that I disagree with your overall sentiment, because I think continuing to focus on the movie characters has gotten dull, but do you really think the SW universe doesn't have an anti-agapic? Pushing sixty isn't a major detriment, not in such setting. IMHO.

[EDIT] Actually I am serious: DOES the SW universe have anti-aging treatments? Because now that I think about it, I can't seem to recall them mentioning it. Ever.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-12-04 10:00pm

Durandal wrote:I can only hope that the following things will be absent ...

Organic tech wanking. I stopped reading NJO because I thought the Yuuzhan Vong were shitty villains.

The movie characters. I. Am. Sick. Of. Reading. About. Them. Can we please write a Star Wars novel composed completely of original characters? Han Solo is pushing 60 for Christ's sakes. And he's still galavanting around in the Falcon?

A New-Frontier-esque style of Star Wars books, eh?

Hmm. Could be done. I think part of the problem is that the appeal of the OT characters is so strong that people will continue to want to read of them.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-12-04 10:03pm

JME2 wrote:A New-Frontier-esque style of Star Wars books, eh?

Hmm. Could be done.

In spite of my criticisms of the X-wing novels this is one thing they got right.

I think part of the problem is that the appeal of the OT characters is so strong that people will continue to want to read of them.

We've got the Solo twins, lil' baby skywalker, hmm... I dunno who else.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-12-04 10:35pm

Stofsk wrote:In spite of my criticisms of the X-wing novels this is one thing they got right.

One of the hardest things when you do that, however, is getting the replacements right. Inevitably, you will do one of two things:
1) Make them better than the guys they replaced.
2) Make them worse (for example, AFAIK most people here consider TNG characters to be somewhat inferior to their TOS brethen).

Either way, people will shoot you for it.

Besides, it won't be much of SW anymore without Luke and his Star Warriors. They've already gotten rid of the Empire (the enemy of the original Star Wars), and now the New Republic is dead too (replaced by the Galactic Alliance, which I hope will not wind up as "shitty on demand" as the New Republic ... honestly the NR is the true low point of all known GFFA Galactic Governments).

At least TNG still has the people serving nominally the same Federation (though many complained about how the nature of the Federation seemed to have shifted) so there's some feeling of continuity and it all being the same long story, but all SW has left are the characters. If you aren't using them, you might as well close off SW and write a whole new set of stories.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-12-05 02:37am

Either way, people will shoot you for it.

Besides, it won't be much of SW anymore without Luke and his Star Warriors. They've already gotten rid of the Empire (the enemy of the original Star Wars), and now the New Republic is dead too (replaced by the Galactic Alliance, which I hope will not wind up as "shitty on demand" as the New Republic ... honestly the NR is the true low point of all known GFFA Galactic Governments).

Luke should be a back ground character now. Leading and training Jedi. Being the head of the Jedi Council. A Yoda character.

If they do make more EU, and the GFFA turns out to be NRII, I'll barf. It's about time to put the Galactic Civil Wars to rest. Internal unrest has been WAY done. Time to move on.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-12-05 02:49am

Knife wrote:
Either way, people will shoot you for it.

Besides, it won't be much of SW anymore without Luke and his Star Warriors. They've already gotten rid of the Empire (the enemy of the original Star Wars), and now the New Republic is dead too (replaced by the Galactic Alliance, which I hope will not wind up as "shitty on demand" as the New Republic ... honestly the NR is the true low point of all known GFFA Galactic Governments).
Luke should be a back ground character now. Leading and training Jedi. Being the head of the Jedi Council. A Yoda character.

If they do make more EU, and the GFFA turns out to be NRII, I'll barf. It's about time to put the Galactic Civil Wars to rest. Internal unrest has been WAY done. Time to move on.

That's part of the problem. Star Wars. Conflict's always been one of the cornerstones of the SW universe. It's hard to break that mold and part of the reason the Bantam era books sunk themselves, with galactic civil unrest after galactic civil unrest.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-12-05 03:35am

Knife wrote:Luke should be a back ground character now. Leading and training Jedi. Being the head of the Jedi Council. A Yoda character.

To put it more negatively, a mere icon so as to tell people "Yes, we are still talking about Star Wars ... even though we changed all the characters, all the ships, all the governments ... etc."

If they do make more EU, and the GFFA turns out to be NRII, I'll barf. It's about time to put the Galactic Civil Wars to rest. Internal unrest has been WAY done. Time to move on.

Suggestions?

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-12-05 10:29am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
If they do make more EU, and the GFFA turns out to be NRII, I'll barf. It's about time to put the Galactic Civil Wars to rest. Internal unrest has been WAY done. Time to move on.
Suggestions?

That's what they're doing with this Dark Nest series IIRC. There may be some tension within the GFFA, but it's not a story of Civil War and internal unrest.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-12-05 10:31am

JME2 wrote:
That's part of the problem. Star Wars. Conflict's always been one of the cornerstones of the SW universe. It's hard to break that mold and part of the reason the Bantam era books sunk themselves, with galactic civil unrest after galactic civil unrest.

You can still hav conflict, and still break the templete and cycle of weak NR/GF.

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:Suggestions?

Like I mentioned in the thread earlier. You could focus on the Order's new philocaphy. Follow the Jedi around in some adventures as they unite a strong central goverment, not brace a weak one. Hell, even a GFFA war of conquest and what the Jedi feel about that as the GFFA attacks and occupies Hutt space in revenge for betray in NJO or the Corporate Sector or some such.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-12-05 12:56pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:One of the hardest things when you do that, however, is getting the replacements right. Inevitably, you will do one of two things:
1) Make them better than the guys they replaced.
2) Make them worse (for example, AFAIK most people here consider TNG characters to be somewhat inferior to their TOS brethen).

Either way, people will shoot you for it.

Besides, it won't be much of SW anymore without Luke and his Star Warriors. They've already gotten rid of the Empire (the enemy of the original Star Wars), and now the New Republic is dead too (replaced by the Galactic Alliance, which I hope will not wind up as "shitty on demand" as the New Republic ... honestly the NR is the true low point of all known GFFA Galactic Governments).

What are you talking about? If the characters are intriguing and fit into the SW universe, they'll survive on their own merits. Just look at how wildly successful KOTOR was, and that didn't have a single movie character in it. All original characters with an all original storyline set in the SW universe.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-12-05 01:14pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Knife wrote:Luke should be a back ground character now. Leading and training Jedi. Being the head of the Jedi Council. A Yoda character.
To put it more negatively, a mere icon so as to tell people "Yes, we are still talking about Star Wars ... even though we changed all the characters, all the ships, all the governments ... etc."

Basicly, the same thing Star Trek did after TOS and with Enterprise.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-12-05 07:53pm

Durandal wrote:What are you talking about? If the characters are intriguing and fit into the SW universe, they'll survive on their own merits. Just look at how wildly successful KOTOR was, and that didn't have a single movie character in it. All original characters with an all original storyline set in the SW universe.

I hadn't played any KOTOR, Let me ask you honestly. If KOTOR didn't say it was Star Wars and renamed the "Jedi Knights" into something else, would there really be anything to tell you it really is part of Star Wars?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-12-05 07:59pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Durandal wrote:What are you talking about? If the characters are intriguing and fit into the SW universe, they'll survive on their own merits. Just look at how wildly successful KOTOR was, and that didn't have a single movie character in it. All original characters with an all original storyline set in the SW universe.
I hadn't played any KOTOR, Let me ask you honestly. If KOTOR didn't say it was Star Wars and renamed the "Jedi Knights" into something else, would there really be anything to tell you it really is part of Star Wars?

Yes you could as it has a lot element from pre-KOTOR EU (Like Exar Kun) and SW Locations.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-05 08:00pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Durandal wrote:What are you talking about? If the characters are intriguing and fit into the SW universe, they'll survive on their own merits. Just look at how wildly successful KOTOR was, and that didn't have a single movie character in it. All original characters with an all original storyline set in the SW universe.
I hadn't played any KOTOR, Let me ask you honestly. If KOTOR didn't say it was Star Wars and renamed the "Jedi Knights" into something else, would there really be anything to tell you it really is part of Star Wars?

That's like asking let's take out everything in a Star Trek Novel and go "Would it be a Star Trek?"

It uses the tech, it uses the background, it uses pre established history, it uses more then enough that the story itself has it's own problem to consider if you stripped away everything Star Wars from it.

The story and the game is a story that is original that utilizes Star Wars as it's background material.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-12-05 08:13pm

Ghost Rider wrote:That's like asking let's take out everything in a Star Trek Novel and go "Would it be a Star Trek?"

It uses the tech, it uses the background, it uses pre established history, it uses more then enough that the story itself has it's own problem to consider if you stripped away everything Star Wars from it.

The story and the game is a story that is original that utilizes Star Wars as it's background material.

Right. Thanks, Revan and Ghost. The important thing here, of course, is I'm emphasizing the need for a link. It also helps that KOTOR was what, 3000 years pre-ANH? But something right after NJO will need to have a greater connection with what's in NJO, or it'd feel not like Star Wars.

They are proposing putting up Luke as a kind of Jedi Council Master that's going to sit there. So there's an incident. He sends his Jedi to investigate. They are having trouble. So does Luke go?

If you send him, isn't that kind of the same as always, and you hadn't replaced him at all?

He tells them to deal with it themselves. After only decades of seeing Luke romp around the galaxy, it'd look a bit wierd. If the Jedi are having real trouble, Luke might even look really cruel for not helping, and we'd be muttering about him again (like in NJO).

It is not impossible to make something like this work, but I have doubts the average EU author is up to it.