EU vs USA!!!!

[frigidmagi]

I suppose we could check in with folks in India, North Africa, South America, and Australia to ask about how things were when one European power or another was running the show. I'd suggest asking the Tasmanians, but they were exterminated. Oops.

[Europe]But we've changed! We have learned out lession, we didn't mean it, it won't happen again! Come on give us another chance...[/Europe]

Only on SD.net could I make Europe sound like an abusive boyfriend!

[Falkenhayn]

So why the hell would I expect Euro-trash showing up on my home turf to be any better that the settled-in-bandits currently occupying Washington DC?

<sarcasm> Because they're civilized, and cultured, and they have a history that goes back over a thousand years. And they had a whole bunch of philosophers and scientists like Galileo and Descartes and stuff, so they must be better. <sarcasm>

Can't forget that part where they spend from the dawn of recorded history to ~1648 whacking eachother over the head with progressively sharper bits of metal.

[Lord Zentei]

Can't forget that part where they spend from the dawn of recorded history to ~1648 whacking eachother over the head with progressively sharper bits of metal.

Till 1648? Try 1945. Of course after 1648 they were shooting bits of metal at each other, but the thought was there.

[Beowulf]

Can't forget that part where they spend from the dawn of recorded history to ~1648 whacking eachother over the head with progressively sharper bits of metal.

Till 1648? Try 1945. Of course after 1648 they were shooting bits of metal at each other, but the thought was there.

1918. They still had cavalry back then, as in take my sword and charge cavalry. That worked real well...

As for why so many civilians have so many guns, it's because we want them.

[Stofsk]

An EU military force will not happen for many, many, many years thought. It will trip up on many different problems, but the biggest, most glaring, and most irreconcileable: Germany would put the brakes on joining any military that used nuclear weapons or nuclear powered ships, and France will not give them up.

When did Germany become anti-nuclear? I think I remember hearing how they want to shut down their nuclear reactors in a few years, and switch to 'renewables!' - I think someone pointed out how they're going to have to buy energy from neighbouring countries that use nuclear power or fossil fuels, and this will only serve to drive up costs for power consumption inside Germany.

Who the hell is running things in the Fatherland? Abbot & Costello? The Marx Brothers? Rebo and 'Zoot Zoot!' Zooty? Jesus.

[phongn]

When did Germany become anti-nuclear? I think I remember hearing how they want to shut down their nuclear reactors in a few years, and switch to 'renewables!' - I think someone pointed out how they're going to have to buy energy from neighbouring countries that use nuclear power or fossil fuels, and this will only serve to drive up costs for power consumption inside Germany.

The coalition led by the Green Party took control some years ago, IIRC. Not unexpectedly, they promptly began plans to shut down Germany's nuclear power plants.

[Elfdart]

Don't you know that the EU invasion is taking the first steps right now?

First off destroy all science education in the schools so that future generations will be dumb and unable to design new weapons and stuff.

We have the churches on our side promoting hate against everyone that don't think like them. Jerry Farwell is out main asset right now.

We rigged the election so GW II would come to power and destroy all hope for a sensible American foreign policy, soon USA will be hated all over the globe and noone will give a shit about USA.

We supplied the information so GW II would end up in a war the either forces you to reinstate Conscription and be hated in the USA or continue with stop loss and see the influx of new bodies to the armed forces dwindle to nothing. THEN you are ripe!

Not only that, but by promoting global warming and the rise of sea levels, there will be no chance of crossing the Bering Straits.

[Elfdart]

The reason so many Americans have so many guns is that we have so many dickheads over here who are only deterred by guns. How the fuck British cops dealt with criminals is beyond me, unless their billyclubs fired Colt .45 rounds.

[Col. Crackpot]

When did Germany become anti-nuclear? I think I remember hearing how they want to shut down their nuclear reactors in a few years, and switch to 'renewables!' - I think someone pointed out how they're going to have to buy energy from neighbouring countries that use nuclear power or fossil fuels, and this will only serve to drive up costs for power consumption inside Germany.

The coalition led by the Green Party took control some years ago, IIRC. Not unexpectedly, they promptly began plans to shut down Germany's nuclear power plants.

besides, do we really want a nuclear Germany?

[Crown]

I'm always late on these things so forgive me if I am repeating something here.

Time for some cold hard facts;

"The EU (collectively) spends 60% on its military, compared to the US's military budget, but has only 10% of the US's capability" - Romano Prodi, outgoing President of the European Comission.

So no the EU can not fight a war against the US as things stand now.

Alternatively I don't believe the US could actually invade the EU (conventionally) ... nuke it of the face of the world sure, but conventional invasion? Nope. Don't buy it.

But even if we go the reverse and give the EU a good solid 20 years to catch up (and the US does jack all in that time, not bloody likely) a conventional war would still end in a stalemate, or MAD.

*shrug*

Stupid topic really.

[Broomstick]

Alternatively I don't believe the US could actually invade the EU (conventionally) ... nuke it of the face of the world sure, but conventional invasion? Nope. Don't buy it.

The US could invade - but there's no way it could hold it.

The only reason the US was able to invade in WWII is because the Europeans wanted outside help to subdue Germany and Italy (mostly Germany). Didn't have to deal with a native insurgency. Nor was it the US alone vs. Europe - we were part of a much larger coalition.

If the US tried an invasion now most of Europe would unite overnight. Assuming no one went nuclear, there's still no way the US could hold any significant territory.

[HemlockGrey]

the British were teaching the natives how to scalp people for fun and profit,

To be absolutely technical about it that was chiefly the province of the French, prior to the end of the French and Indian War.

[RedImperator]

Alternatively I don't believe the US could actually invade the EU (conventionally) ... nuke it of the face of the world sure, but conventional invasion? Nope. Don't buy it.

The US could invade - but there's no way it could hold it.

The only reason the US was able to invade in WWII is because the Europeans wanted outside help to subdue Germany and Italy (mostly Germany). Didn't have to deal with a native insurgency. Nor was it the US alone vs. Europe - we were part of a much larger coalition.

If the US tried an invasion now most of Europe would unite overnight. Assuming no one went nuclear, there's still no way the US could hold any significant territory.

It also helped, I think, that when we invaded Germany we stamped the place flat, and if the Germans had tried the same tactics the Iraqi insurgents are using, they would have been butchered and they knew it. The 8th Air Force would have dealt with Fallujah with firebombing raids, not a house to house campaign where shooting a prisoner because he looked like he was playing dead is an international incedent.

[Broomstick]

the British were teaching the natives how to scalp people for fun and profit,

To be absolutely technical about it that was chiefly the province of the French, prior to the end of the French and Indian War.

To be absolutely honest, everyone was in on the game at the time.

The British at the time were offering a cash and/or goods bounty for "enemy" scalps. With incentives like that, it became quite the cottage industry and they didn't always check to make sure the scalpees were dead first - there were numerous incidents of folks surviving the experience and living out their lives with permanently severe haircuts.

But that's really off topic.

[salm]

When did Germany become anti-nuclear? I think I remember hearing how they want to shut down their nuclear reactors in a few years, and switch to 'renewables!' - I think someone pointed out how they're going to have to buy energy from neighbouring countries that use nuclear power or fossil fuels, and this will only serve to drive up costs for power consumption inside Germany.

The coalition led by the Green Party took control some years ago, IIRC. Not unexpectedly, they promptly began plans to shut down Germany's nuclear power plants.

the coalition is not led by the greens. the coalition is led by the spd which are the social democrats of germany. the spd have 251 seats and the greens have 55 seats in the bundestag which means that the spd have 38.5 % and the greens 8.6%.

and no it wasn´t unexpected at all. it was a major point in their campain. people partially voted for them because of that.
they really suck for that but they´re quite good otherwise.

so to answer sofsks question: germany became anti nuclear in 1998 when the spd and the greens came to power for the first time. our last nuclear power plant will go offline in 2025 and we will switch back to coal and import nuclear power from france and ukraine. it´s redicolous.

[RedImperator]

When did Germany become anti-nuclear? I think I remember hearing how they want to shut down their nuclear reactors in a few years, and switch to 'renewables!' - I think someone pointed out how they're going to have to buy energy from neighbouring countries that use nuclear power or fossil fuels, and this will only serve to drive up costs for power consumption inside Germany.

The coalition led by the Green Party took control some years ago, IIRC. Not unexpectedly, they promptly began plans to shut down Germany's nuclear power plants.

<snip>

The Green Party...is bringing more coal burners to Germany.

Are these people completely retarded?

[phongn]

the coalition is not led by the greens. the coalition is led by the spd which are the social democrats of germany. the spd have 251 seats and the greens have 55 seats in the bundestag which means that the spd have 38.5 % and the greens 8.6%.

The spin here had the Greens as a powerful bloc of that coalition.

and no it wasn´t unexpected at all. it was a major point in their campain. people partially voted for them because of that.
they really suck for that but they´re quite good otherwise.

I used a double-negative (I know that's bad); you're essentially agreeing with me in this paragraph.

The Green Party...is bringing more coal burners to Germany.

Are these people completely retarded?

You know the average intelligence of anti-nuclear coalitions as well as I do.

[Sea Skimmer]

You know the average intelligence of anti-nuclear coalitions as well as I do.

The fact that coal power in Germany runs off of lignite makes it even more fun; since that's about the lowest grade of fuel you can get and still call coal. Course, anything which spawns the potential for more giant bucket wheel excavators to be built can be considered a good thing in its own right.

[Coyote]

The German Greens (but German society, too) has been very anti-nuclear weapons since 1945, I believe. Since, in the world of the anti-nuclear activist, "reactor=hiroshima" and "nukes=bad", it kinda spilled over into the power industry as well.

(remember the protestors in New Zealand, a few years ago, going absolutely batshit over a visit from a US aircraft carrier that was nuclear powered but according to press releases had no nuclear weapons.)

But the British and the French have nuclear weapons and nuclear powered ships, therefore that makes the formation of an all-Europe fighting force a dim prospect. And a European land force without German involvement (Achtung! Panzers!) equally doubtful.

[salm]

and no it wasn´t unexpected at all. it was a major point in their campain. people partially voted for them because of that.
they really suck for that but they´re quite good otherwise.

I used a double-negative (I know that's bad); you're essentially agreeing with me in this paragraph.

yeah, i wasn´t disagreeing with you. i only wanted to expand on that a bit and point out that the whole german society is anit nuclear.

[salm]

The German Greens (but German society, too) has been very anti-nuclear weapons since 1945, I believe. Since, in the world of the anti-nuclear activist, "reactor=hiroshima" and "nukes=bad", it kinda spilled over into the power industry as well.

pretty much of that comes from the chernobyl desaster. we couldn´t drink milk and eat mushrooms in that time because winds carried the nuclear crap over to here for example. so i can understand where the fear comes from.
it doesn´t change the fact that this fear is unsopported of course.