Roman Empire vs 2 continents of Dinosaurs

Rathark · Post by **Rathark** » 2002-11-09 07:30am

Let's assume that the Romans, at the height of their power, decided to colonize North and South America en masse; only to find that both continents had a sustainable ecology virtually unchanged since the late Cretaceous era. That includes as many dinosaurs - herbivorous and carnivorous - as could possibly exist on the island without driving any single species to extinction. Rome is presently under the rule of a particularly mad emporer (well, SLIGHTLY mad by Roman standards) who believes that the dinosaurs are the bastard children of Typhon and Echidne, and must be exterminated by any means necessary for the appeasement of Zeus.

The Romans have every soldier, steed and weapon at their disposal (including catapults). Their blacksmiths are working around the clock to forge new, specialized weapons for this very purpose. Lateral thinking is utilized to the limit, including every baiting and trapping technique known to the Romans and their conquered subjects.

Around about this time, other Roman explorers in Africa have just discovered the poison used by Bushmen for killing elephants.

What the dinosaurs lack in intelligence and communal organization, they make up for in brute strength, endurance, and their uncanny knack for inducing bowel-gushing terror in all mammals. The foot soldiers AND cavalry are in for an exceptionally hard time, since one T-Rex - encountered for the first time - could send an entire army into a panic. Horses and even elephants would be uncontrollable. But remember, the Romans don't have to limit themselves to "conventional" battle tactics and strategies. Mass forest burning would be one option.

The Romans will (probably) have the time to build any fortification they need to barricade themselves against the scaly titans.

Would the Romans succeed in their insane quest for continental cleansing? Or will Mr and Mrs Rex send them packing with soiled tunics? If the Romans do succeed, how long would it take?

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-09 07:38am

I could see the Roman legionary formations killing a T-Rex. Long pikes and the right tactics could bring that mutha down. Cavalry wouldn't be much use except against the smaller dinosaurs. Mayhap the legionaries could tame the large herbivores and use them as weapons.

My speculation is over.

Man what a ridiculous topic

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2002-11-09 08:40am

FIRE = GOD

Terraforming is what make man supreme

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-09 08:50am

I think that Vympel is right.....but Ihave to wonder about pack dinosaurs, such as the raptors (Velociraptor, Utahraptor, ect) and the Compsognathus-type dinosaurs. The herbivores, for the most part, would be useless, except for maybe the Ankylosaurus, Stegosaurus, and Gallimimus. THe Apatosaurus (Bronto) *might* have something to do with it, but doubtful. The pea-brains would not be able to comprehend, and would be just as frightened by a horde of soldiers as the soldiers would be of it.

I think that the Romans win, by sheer number alone.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-11-09 09:10am

The romans aren't all that stupid. Just intrroduce animals form our era. The dinosaurs go down really hard with the millions of bacteria and viruses they have no defence to

.

Failing that a ballista or an orager(sp) would kill a rex so fast it isn't funny. The romans would fortify ports. It should also be noted that by the end of the empire they had cheap legionary crossbows. With the poison, practially any dino is very dead.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-09 09:15am

Not to mention that a Raptor against a wall of shields and long pointy sticks ain't exactly in a good position.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-09 09:16am

Vympel wrote:Not to mention that a Raptor against a wall of shields and long pointy sticks ain't exactly in a good position.

What if they go from behind? And you seem to forget the smaller creatures.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-11-09 09:42am

raptors are not intelligent enough to take on the romans?

go in behind?

the romans form a testudeo type formation. in the meantime they unsling those crossbows and kill all the raptors (it shoud also be noted that the things in jurassic park aren't velociraptors, they are something with a less cool name, the real velos was about chicken size)

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-09 09:44am

NecronLord wrote:

raptors are not intelligent enough to take on the romans?

go in behind?

the romans form a testudeo type formation. in the meantime they unsling those crossbows and kill all the raptors (it shoud also be noted that the things in jurassic park aren't velociraptors, they are something with a less cool name, the real velos was about chicken size)

Yes, I know this....that is why I ask about the smaller dinos. And just out of curiosity, Dilophosaurus, anyone?

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2002-11-09 10:07am

It would make for some intresting games in the colliseum thats for sure, This Week T-Rex vs Triceratops...

Predatorial dinos would only be dangerous when they were hungry, herbivoreal not even then. Against an organized intelligent foe no beasts have a chance in the long run.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-09 10:13am

CJvR wrote:It would make for some intresting games in the colliseum thats for sure, This Week T-Rex vs Triceratops...

Predatorial dinos would only be dangerous when they were hungry, herbivoreal not even then. Against an organized intelligent foe no beasts have a chance in the long run.

Wrong; all of them will be dangerous when they are threatened. Second, we have no idea about the intelligence of some of the species (ie, Velociraptor) who have a larger brain:body ratio.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-11-09 10:56am

Dinosaurs. Chances are after sufering some failures the roman's would have to call the crusade a failure. A slow-program of colonization would have more chance of success in the long-run however. But this grand plan would more likly be a failure, might even bring Roman's fall even early than in our history.

Cool AH though.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-11-09 10:58am

CJvR wrote:It would make for some intresting games in the colliseum thats for sure, This Week T-Rex vs Triceratops...

Predatorial dinos would only be dangerous when they were hungry, herbivoreal not even then. Against an organized intelligent foe no beasts have a chance in the long run.

Don't ever apporch a rhino. Or shoot at an elephant herd. Friendly advice.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-09 11:36am

I think the biggest problem is that while the Romans had weapons...they are fighting an beastie to which our closest analogies may truly pale in comparison.

I mean we think of them like our animals but honestly two continents of these beasties...and we have no idea but conjecture scientists in general and Cricthon specfically came up with(he's influenced us than many would admit)

and like DS said never approach a rhino...friendly advice indeed.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2002-11-09 12:19pm

Vympel wrote:I could see the Roman legionary formations killing a T-Rex. Long pikes and the right tactics could bring that mutha down. Cavalry wouldn't be much use except against the smaller dinosaurs. Mayhap the legionaries could tame the large herbivores and use them as weapons.

My speculation is over.

Man what a ridiculous topic

Here's an interesting tidbit: the king of Babylon was said to have a captured dragon in the Royal zoo. Going from artistic representations of it at the time, it resemble a dinoosaur. Of course, it was closer to a brontosaurus than a T-rex, but it is neat to think about.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-11-09 01:54pm

We do know the maximum strength of dinosaurs, after a certain point they would start cracking their own bones. They are mortal. They can bleed and the can die.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-09 04:17pm

Here's an idea: steal dinosaur eggs, hatch the creatures and use them as pack animals, mounts, or rammers.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-09 06:12pm

The Romans could kill most dinos with a hail of javelins. Combine with fire and field fortifications they'd take this easily. Distance and disease would be bigger problems.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-11-09 06:15pm

On the purely technical level, Romans win.

But I ask you this: Would YOU want to be a part of the battallion that tries to take out a T-rex? Or worse yet, a herd of camarasauri?

The dino's will win some victories through sheer virtue of being mythical like creatures.

Oh yes, if the Romans meet any sauropods, they'd run screaming. There's no chance in hell that any Roman would dare take on group of creatures that large.
Field artillery would be their only hope, and to the best of my knowledge, field artillery doesn't have a very good re-fire rate.

So in conclusion: If the romans were fearless, they'd steam role the dinos. But the dinos will just put too much fear into the romans for the romans to get anything done.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-09 06:19pm

Would YOU want to be a part of the battallion that tries to take out a T-rex? Or worse yet, a herd of camarasauri?

Anything for the glory of the empire!

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-09 06:51pm

Shadow WarChief wrote:On the purely technical level, Romans win.

But I ask you this: Would YOU want to be a part of the battallion that tries to take out a T-rex? Or worse yet, a herd of camarasauri?

The dino's will win some victories through sheer virtue of being mythical like creatures.

Oh yes, if the Romans meet any sauropods, they'd run screaming. There's no chance in hell that any Roman would dare take on group of creatures that large.
Field artillery would be their only hope, and to the best of my knowledge, field artillery doesn't have a very good re-fire rate.

So in conclusion: If the romans were fearless, they'd steam role the dinos. But the dinos will just put too much fear into the romans for the romans to get anything done.

The Roman had quite a few very heavy bow weapons, which have high rates of fire. However I doubt any but the most aggressive hunters would attack the Roman troops. Most would flee, especially if prompted by fire. Hell much suggests the T-Rex its self is a scavenger, and its hid wont stop Roman Javelins. One might not be lethal but the dozens of hits it would take in the first volley will be.

The Romans and many other armyies have fought resoulty against armored war elephants, and those would charge right at them. The big dinos are going to move away.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-11-09 09:48pm

Okay here are some of the reasons I think the romes would lose.... might as well start some debate in this thread.

1) time/logistiscs: very major problem here guys. Do the Roman's even have the resources for an extended campaign across two contents? We are not just talking invation here... complete genocide. They can't even send there entire military over without leaving thier empire defenseless.... even if they do setup cities and try to make the expiditonary force self-succeficent (unlikly considering there mindset.... who would want to live or buy anything from the land of monsters?) It would be a considerable drain on there economy, if not bankrupt it complealty if there are not careful. Time is another part of this problem. Even if they are successful in battle (I'll get to my doubts later), how long is this going to take? Clear out an entire two contents? Anyone doubt at least a hundred years? With no setbacks? I doubt even that soon. And around that time the original emporer is dead (more likely two or so emporers). And entire lives have been spent living and dying.... I don't think the roman people would continue this.

2) Actaully combat: Yes, I have no doubt that roman armies can kill dinosaurs.... in theory. In theory a poisoned ballista can kill a t-rex.... Is it going to stand still? It would charge an army... and who is going to stand with enought organization to effectivly kill one? People are going to die, and while I'm sure alone t-rex would die eventually if the army kept its cool, but I dobt they can. And a t-rex is small fry compared to other problems. What about a brontosaurs herd? You start to hurt the herd and they charge... I feel sorry for that army. And then theres steigasaurs... ooch.

And then theres ultrasaurs.... and that bone they found that belong to a dinosaur bigger than that one.

Oh by the way, there are raptors about as big or almost as big as the movie raptors... I think there called utah raptors.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-11-09 09:50pm

Acctaully instead of steigasaurs I was thinking of triceretops.Those sucka's are scary to me in this situation becuase I see them anglaous to rhino's in temperment.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-09 10:01pm

Darth_Shinji wrote:Okay here are some of the reasons I think the romes would lose.... might as well start some debate in this thread.

1) time/logistiscs: very major problem here guys. Do the Roman's even have the resources for an extended campaign across two contents? We are not just talking invation here... complete genocide. They can't even send there entire military over without leaving thier empire defenseless.... even if they do setup cities and try to make the expiditonary force self-succeficent (unlikly considering there mindset.... who would want to live or buy anything from the land of monsters?) It would be a considerable drain on there economy, if not bankrupt it complealty if there are not careful. Time is another part of this problem. Even if they are successful in battle (I'll get to my doubts later), how long is this going to take? Clear out an entire two contents? Anyone doubt at least a hundred years? With no setbacks? I doubt even that soon. And around that time the original emporer is dead (more likely two or so emporers). And entire lives have been spent living and dying.... I don't think the roman people would continue this.

2) Actaully combat: Yes, I have no doubt that roman armies can kill dinosaurs.... in theory. In theory a poisoned ballista can kill a t-rex.... Is it going to stand still? It would charge an army... and who is going to stand with enought organization to effectivly kill one? People are going to die, and while I'm sure alone t-rex would die eventually if the army kept its cool, but I dobt they can. And a t-rex is small fry compared to other problems. What about a brontosaurs herd? You start to hurt the herd and they charge... I feel sorry for that army. And then theres steigasaurs... ooch.

And then theres ultrasaurs.... and that bone they found that belong to a dinosaur bigger than that one.

Oh by the way, there are raptors about as big or almost as big as the movie raptors... I think there called utah raptors.

Umm.....I think we're ignoring the fact that there are other people....as in all these vs. combats, homeland defense doesn't really matter.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-11-09 11:09pm

verilon wrote:
Umm.....I think we're ignoring the fact that there are other people....as in all these vs. combats, homeland defense doesn't really matter.

The whole point of this thread is if Rome could succed in this campaign the realistic limatations are very much apart of this.... and even if it wasn't, even if they could send all of thier miliatry over.... manpower and logistics would still be horrendous in the long run.