Is World Government Desirable?

[Enforcer Talen]

A world government is a nice concept, but it'd be hard to implement with all the thousands of ethnicities and hundreds of nations bent on killing each or everyone else. That, or at least hating their guts.

You'd need an immensely powerful military to forcibly bring everyone to their knees, and then that same military to keep everyone in line, and several generations under close watch to eventually let those past hatreds and prejudices dissipate.

In other words, quite impossible, practically

Oh, and that also involves having a single unfallible ruler as well. A republic would be very difficult to implement with all the ethnicities and sentiments as I said before. At least not immediately.

Maybe after several generations of controlled growth, people will have let go of their sentiments enough to trust and work together again, albeit with some arguments here and there.

Eh, the "infallible" ruler idea has been tried again and again. There is no such thing. The "best available" ruler may exist and the "tolerably acceptable" ruler does exist, but you need negative feedback of some kind to find them. All the more reason the idea of the World State is "quite impossible, practically" as you said... unless we get various EU style conglomerations forming a loose confederation possibly using the UN as a kind of glue. People won't consider it a "government" though - and they'll be right.

I've always considered a one world goverment a flawed idea. IMHO the purpose of a goverment is to serve it's people and to make their lives better. A one world goverment would be too large to consider the interests of the voting public.

Indeed.

the loose confederations will most likely merge together. take a few generations, perhaps, but nations in eu or states in usa show it can be done.

[Lord Zentei]

the loose confederations will most likely merge together. take a few generations, perhaps, but nations in eu or states in usa show it can be done.

Possibly. The question remains whether such a thing will ever deserve the "government" moniker. There is also the question of the underlying philosophy of the World State: whether cultural differences will ever erode sufficiently for people to agree on what it is to be. The 13 colonies had a common origin and language, and they banded together in no small part for mutual defense. Even now the UK balks at the idea of calling the EU a "confederation" with a "government".

Also, how would such a loose confederation of confederations prevent secessions? Why should a particular province/member state remain in such a confederation if they felt that they would have a government more responsive to their immediate needs if they seceded?

[Enforcer Talen]

the loose confederations will most likely merge together. take a few generations, perhaps, but nations in eu or states in usa show it can be done.

Possibly. The question remains whether such a thing will ever deserve the "government" moniker. There is also the question of the underlying philosophy of the World State: whether cultural differences will ever erode sufficiently for people to agree on what it is to be. The 13 colonies had a common origin and language, and they banded together in no small part for mutual defense. Even now the UK balks at the idea of calling the EU a "confederation" with a "government".

Also, how would such a loose confederation of confederations prevent secessions? Why should a particular province/member state remain in such a confederation if they felt that they would have a government more responsive to their immediate needs if they seceded?

it will take a few generations, Im sure. the american union wasnt expected to be so centralized. as well, with the eu, common markets and culture exists - human rights and so forth. crazed fundies wont gain entrance, and they wont survive to make a global state.

[Lord Zentei]

it will take a few generations, Im sure. the american union wasnt expected to be so centralized. as well, with the eu, common markets and culture exists - human rights and so forth. crazed fundies wont gain entrance, and they wont survive to make a global state.

If crazed fundies won't gain an entrance, you have hardly got a "world" sate.

And I reiterate: how would such a loose confederation of confederations prevent secessions? Why should a particular province/member state remain in such a confederation if they felt that they would have a government more responsive to their immediate needs if they seceded?

[Prozac the Robert]

one step at a time - 10 blocs that had merged within one generation are more open to additional mergers then 200 nations that have centuries of tradition behind them.

Hmm, that was kind of my thinking. The problem is you would have to move fairly quickly, and not allow any of them to start feuding with each other.

If the whole thing seperated along idealogical rather than geographic lines then getting the blocks to combine could be pretty difficult.

And I reiterate: how would such a loose confederation of confederations prevent secessions? Why should a particular province/member state remain in such a confederation if they felt that they would have a government more responsive to their immediate needs if they seceded?

If it was a true world government it could probably levy a lot of economic pressure. Countries which relied on the central government for funding would find it very hard to leave, and no country would do too well if it were completely outcast.

[Enforcer Talen]

it will take a few generations, Im sure. the american union wasnt expected to be so centralized. as well, with the eu, common markets and culture exists - human rights and so forth. crazed fundies wont gain entrance, and they wont survive to make a global state.

If crazed fundies won't gain an entrance, you have hardly got a "world" sate.

And I reiterate: how would such a loose confederation of confederations prevent secessions? Why should a particular province/member state remain in such a confederation if they felt that they would have a government more responsive to their immediate needs if they seceded?

conceded. but if the eu or similar organization nets up the nonfundy world, youve got a decent percentage. when islam manages to modernize or die in the best darwinian style, they will come in as wel.

one step at a time, as always.

and, of course, this world gov wouldnt start as a centralized top down ignore all dissension. I would predict similar to the us, with federal and state level, save the federal is global or continental, and the states being old nations.

[Lord Zentei]

conceded. but if the eu or similar organization nets up the nonfundy world, youve got a decent percentage. when islam manages to modernize or die in the best darwinian style, they will come in as wel.

one step at a time, as always.

and, of course, this world gov wouldnt start as a centralized top down ignore all dissension. I would predict similar to the us, with federal and state level, save the federal is global or continental, and the states being old nations.

That sounds O.K. until you consider that the US cemented it's status as a strong Federation w/o an exit clause only after a brutal civil war. Now expand that to the entire planet, and use modern weapons, including nukes.

If it can be done without all that, then it may be worth it. But I personally think that we should tread carefully in that direction.

[Xon]

If we ignore politics for a moment, and assume that the majority of nations would give their full support to whatever would be best, then...

Would any form of world government be a good thing?

A centralised state which could raise taxes directly?

A federation in the style of the US, with a federal government and separate national governments with a medium level of autonomy?

A weak confederation, similar perhaps to the EU or the early US?

Or none of the above?

Just as long as it isnt based on the USA's current system. They somehow manage to make a complete clusterfuck out of things lately.

[Lord Zentei]

If we ignore politics for a moment, and assume that the majority of nations would give their full support to whatever would be best, then...

Would any form of world government be a good thing?

A centralised state which could raise taxes directly?

A federation in the style of the US, with a federal government and separate national governments with a medium level of autonomy?

A weak confederation, similar perhaps to the EU or the early US?

Or none of the above?

Just as long as it isnt based on the USA's current system. They somehow manage to make a complete clusterfuck out of things lately.

The EU are worse: they can't even decide on what their bloody policy is.

[Xon]

Just as long as it isnt based on the USA's current system. They somehow manage to make a complete clusterfuck out of things lately.

The EU are worse: they can't even decide on what their bloody policy is.

I wonder how Australia's political system would work when scalled up to cover more than ~20 million.

[Lord Zentei]

Just as long as it isnt based on the USA's current system. They somehow manage to make a complete clusterfuck out of things lately.

The EU are worse: they can't even decide on what their bloody policy is.

I wonder how Australia's political system would work when scalled up to cover more than ~20 million.

No idea. But you have a common language and culture, so that makes things a lot easier.

Perhaps we should be looking to democratic India with it's 1000 million people and 15 official state languages. Or maybe nor: India remains poor and religious strife is endemic.

[Tom_Aurum]

I beleive the question here is really, what sort of international crisis would it take to unite the globe under one flag? Right now we still have a whole bunch of nations practicing some form of dictatorship, and some resisting any form of government at all.

[Lord Zentei]

I beleive the question here is really, what sort of international crisis would it take to unite the globe under one flag? Right now we still have a whole bunch of nations practicing some form of dictatorship, and some resisting any form of government at all.

ID4? War of the Worlds? Emperor Ming? Something like that anyway.

Can't see Humans defining themselves as a united group without some saps to be the "other guys". Maybe I'm just cynical.

[Enforcer Talen]

basically, you kill off all the dictators and fundies.

it helps when they start wars and suicide bomb themselves. youll note the eu formed only after ww2.

[Lord Zentei]

basically, you kill off all the dictators and fundies.

Killing all the dictators and fundies would involve as much (or more) killing than they ever caused. Besides, treading that path would make you one of the bad guys: marching to war to unite the Earth, and killing any naysayers.

it helps when they start wars and suicide bomb themselves. youll note the eu formed only after ww2.

I doubt that the EU was worth the price of WW2. And suicide bombs kill more innocents than suicide bombers, so they are not worth it either.

[Enforcer Talen]

regardless of whether the price was worth it, it did occur that way.

and, Im not saying go all jihadist and attack them - you'll note Ive been rather vehement about iraq of late.

but fundies and dictators tend to lend themselves to causes that get themselves killed, and Im quite happy to let that remain so.