The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-12-03 02:32pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Techno_Union wrote:Deflector shields do not protect against this shock wave, and even those starships..."
That's a stupid thing to put in there. If shields didn't protect against the seismic charge--considering their high yield--they would be used almost exclusively in battle to destroy other capships. In fact, this situation would likely render the capital warship obsolete.

And just to note, it says the Spha-T was a terrestrial TL whose beam passed through deflector shields.
By "passed through" do you mean "completely ignored," like in the seismic charge entry? Christ almighty, this is ridiculous. "And I've decided that this, this, and this weapon can ignore starship shields at will! You think that will sound cool? Yeah? Start the presses!"

What else would you expect from guys who decided, COMPLETELY ON THEIR OWN, that the cannons aboard a bounty hunter's ship (Montross) could shoot through shields?

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2004-12-03 03:43pm

Kuja wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Techno_Union wrote:Deflector shields do not protect against this shock wave, and even those starships..."
That's a stupid thing to put in there. If shields didn't protect against the seismic charge--considering their high yield--they would be used almost exclusively in battle to destroy other capships. In fact, this situation would likely render the capital warship obsolete.

And just to note, it says the Spha-T was a terrestrial TL whose beam passed through deflector shields.
By "passed through" do you mean "completely ignored," like in the seismic charge entry? Christ almighty, this is ridiculous. "And I've decided that this, this, and this weapon can ignore starship shields at will! You think that will sound cool? Yeah? Start the presses!"
What else would you expect from guys who decided, COMPLETELY ON THEIR OWN, that the cannons aboard a bounty hunter's ship (Montross) could shoot through shields?

Termination of employment?

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-12-03 04:54pm

In regards to the SPHA-T questions:

Is it still in use by the Empire? Doesn't say.

As far as an explanation about it passing through shields (to note, I do believe I worded it wrong when I said it the first time, but see for yourself):

Turbolasers Pg. 71 wrote:The SPHA-T features a large focusing array that creates a powerful laser beams that can penetrate deflector shields.

-Take it as you will.

I really do like the old Essential Guide's illustrations.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-12-03 05:03pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote: That's a stupid thing to put in there. If shields didn't protect against the seismic charge--considering their high yield--they would be used almost exclusively in battle to destroy other capships. In fact, this situation would likely render the capital warship obsolete.

Not neccesarily. For one thing seismic charges generate a planar wave, that appears to move rather slowly than a starship could conceivably dodge or even outrun the blast.

Furthermore, we don't really know much about the nature of the "planar wave" itself - its not very thermal, it seems to be more of a
projected "force field" effect that imparrts tremendous momentum to whatever it hits (recall that debris from the shattered asteroids in AOTC flew away at high velocity without much if any heating effect.)
- its conceivably possible that a sufficiently powerful-enough charge imparts enough momentum to the shield that it buckles (or that the bracing mechanisms for the shielding themselves buckle) - especially since the "force" applied would be concentrated across a narrow "band" along the shield's surface. Its not impossible for the "force field" to be sufficiently exotic that shields aren't normalyl designed to protect against it.

Also, the quote is somewhat vague in terms of what kind of "shielding" - are we talking starfighter? Corvette? something as larrge as a Star Destroyer? Something as large as the Executor?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-12-03 05:09pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:There were three Executor-class battlecruisers which were mounted with some form of equipment for stealth. HIMS Terror, the flagship of one ADM Sarn who headed up Project PHANTOM was equipped with a stygian crystal-type* cloaking device. It was destroyed (along with the rest of Project PHANTOM at Imdaar Alpha) by Rebel agents. HIMS Knight Hammer, as Spanky noted, was constructed by "Superior General" Devlardus, although the vessel was acquired by ADM Daala after the former's assassination. It was coated with jet-black "stealth hull plating" that made it practically "invisible" to sensors. The unnamed Executor-class battlecruiser being constructed at Fondor and attacked by Rogue Squadron was being equipped with an array of three cloaking devices. (Since Project PHANTOM apparently was irrevocably setback by the rebel stabotage and it is the sole example of stygian crystal-type cloaking technology being exploited by the Empire, it is likely this battlecruiser was to mount more typical hibridium-type "double blind" cloaking devices.)

* Stygian crystal-type cloaking devices are non-"double blind" cloaking devices dependent on the use of "stygian crystals" peculiar to the volcanic planet of Aeten II in the Dreighton Nebula; they are presumably similar to Star Trek-style cloaking devices. They consume significantly less energy than hibridium-type ("double blind") cloaking devices, as ships as small as starfighters can mount them while simultaneously maintaining deflector shields. (The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels states that shields using standard cloaking devices cannot support deflector shields simultaneously. The Empire Strikes Back implies that standard cloaking devices are impractical for vessels the size of the Millennium Falcon and smaller, but Rebel Assault II depicts shielded V-38 starfighters mounting these cloaking devices. The two former sources must therefore be likely refering to hibridium-type cloaking devices).

Cloaking device is a pretty broad category. boba Fett had a "cloak" that did not visually obscure teh ship but blocked sensor emissions. The Imeprial Fleet blockading the Star Cave of ThonBoka also had somethign called "camoflage shields" that were designed to hide them from sensors (suggesting that some degree of stealth or cloaking "shield" technology is in fact standard on Imperial warships, since there were hundreds of vessels deployed there.)

The Vengeancee from XWvsTIE: Balance of Power also had a "decoy beam" which blocked sensor emissions as well IIRC (Decoy beams prevented enemies from "locking on" to your ship.) Been awhile since I played BoP though so I can't be 100% sure.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-12-03 05:27pm

Connor MacLeod wrote: Also, the quote is somewhat vague in terms of what kind of "shielding" - are we talking starfighter? Corvette? something as larrge as a Star Destroyer? Something as large as the Executor?

The charge quote or the SPHA-T one?

If it's for charges:

Seismic Charge Pg. 87 wrote:Deflector shields do not protect against this shock wave.

But just like the SPHA-T, it doesn't tell us any specifics.

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2004-12-12 01:33am

I'll resurrect this tread because of a tidbit of information I found while reading Jedi Trial. The following exceprt takes place on the bridge of the Republic picket frigate Mandain, patrolling 150,000 kilometers away from Praesitlyn, the site of a major battle between Republic and Confederate forces.

"Captain," the watch officer called, "we've detected an approaching object, twenty-five degrees to starboard, three hundred thousand kilometers out, closing slowly!"
...
[Captain Foth said,]"Twenty-one thousand kilometers an hour? Whatever it is, it's moving slowly. Where are those visuals?"
...
"Guns, when will it be in range?"
"At that speed, on my mark, two hours, twenty-seven minutes -- mark."

Jedi Trial; Page 306-307

Going by the gunnery officer's calculations, the maximum range for the Mandain's guns (I'm assuming they mean turbolasers, as those are the primary weapons on any starship) would be 248,550 kilometers. Imagine, these are the guns on a minor picket frigate, imagine the range of the heavy weapons on an ISD or Venator-class SD. At last this gives us a hard number concerning the range of turbolasers that is more in harmony with previous EU sources and G-canon. This also should override the new Technical Guide's range of 60 km for turbolasers.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-12-12 11:42am

Does this book even mention the fact that the Seismic Charge is clearly a surface-effect weapon rather than one designed for space warfare?

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-12-12 01:12pm

The Original Nex wrote:Does this book even mention the fact that the Seismic Charge is clearly a surface-effect weapon rather than one designed for space warfare?

Nope, it talks about it as though it were primarily a space weapon.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-12-12 01:19pm

Techno_Union wrote:According to it [the guide], the DS I design was supposed to be non-military- an "Expedentionary Battle Planetoid." Built to explore... then the Geonosians came and modified the designs to the DS, then at the end of the Clone Wars Tarking took the designs and finished them with Lemilisk.

What utter baloney... the original schematics hologram in Episode II clearly shows the familiar "superlaser" dish. What would a ship of exploration need with such a huge weapon?

Looks like a badly flubbed attempt to harmonize AOTC with the Darksaber novel.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-12-12 02:43pm

TechnoUnion wrote:Nope, it talks about it as though it were primarily a space weapon.

That's bullshit. Any idiot can watch that weapon in action and see that it's primarily designed for surface use.

A uni planar weapon like that would be much more effective in ground warfare than space warfare. Add to the fact that it's name is Seismic charge, and the positioning of the launcher on the Slave I should be clear enough to most educated people that it's a surface-effect weapon, let alone a guy who's writing the fucking book on the Tech!

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-12-12 02:47pm

Kurgan wrote:What utter baloney... the original schematics hologram in Episode II clearly shows the familiar "superlaser" dish. What would a ship of exploration need with such a huge weapon?

I'd assume that those schematics were from after the Geonosians tinkered with the design.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-12-12 02:50pm

Kurgan wrote:
Techno_Union wrote:According to it [the guide], the DS I design was supposed to be non-military- an "Expedentionary Battle Planetoid." Built to explore... then the Geonosians came and modified the designs to the DS, then at the end of the Clone Wars Tarking took the designs and finished them with Lemilisk.
What utter baloney... the original schematics hologram in Episode II clearly shows the familiar "superlaser" dish. What would a ship of exploration need with such a huge weapon?

Looks like a badly flubbed attempt to harmonize AOTC with the Darksaber novel.

Why don't you shut up if you're not going to do you homework before delivering a moronic speech. The "Expeditionary Battle Planetoid" was Raithe Sienar's original design with three spheres and single "core-powered turbolaser." It had no hyperdrive, so it was certainly not a exploration vessel, and as its name implies, it was a weapon. Blackman is simply being an idiot again. The AOTC design is the evolution of the EBP. The Ep. II design is not the EBP.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-12-12 03:06pm

Pres. Sharky wrote:This also should override the new Technical Guide's range of 60 km for turbolasers.

It had better. 60km for Turbolasers?!?! Not, 600,000 but 60?!?! Absa-fuckin' rediculous!!

How much of this book is becoming S-level canon as soon as it's published?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-12-12 04:24pm

The Original Nex wrote:
Kurgan wrote:What utter baloney... the original schematics hologram in Episode II clearly shows the familiar "superlaser" dish. What would a ship of exploration need with such a huge weapon?
I'd assume that those schematics were from after the Geonosians tinkered with the design.

Hmm, I guess I missed the part about how the Geonosians didn't invent it. In the movie, Poggle the Lesser calls it "OUR design for the ultimate weapon." So who came up with it first (I assume) according to this book?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-12-12 04:26pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Techno_Union wrote:According to it [the guide], the DS I design was supposed to be non-military- an "Expedentionary Battle Planetoid." Built to explore... then the Geonosians came and modified the designs to the DS, then at the end of the Clone Wars Tarking took the designs and finished them with Lemilisk.
What utter baloney... the original schematics hologram in Episode II clearly shows the familiar "superlaser" dish. What would a ship of exploration need with such a huge weapon?

Looks like a badly flubbed attempt to harmonize AOTC with the Darksaber novel.
Why don't you shut up if you're not going to do you homework before delivering a moronic speech. The "Expeditionary Battle Planetoid" was Raithe Sienar's original design with three spheres and single "core-powered turbolaser." It had no hyperdrive, so it was certainly not a exploration vessel, and as its name implies, it was a weapon. Blackman is simply being an idiot again. The AOTC design is the evolution of the EBP. The Ep. II design is not the EBP.

Huh?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-12-12 04:31pm

The Original Nex wrote:How much of this book is becoming S-level canon as soon as it's published?

At least everything dealing with ranges of anything, but ground weapons.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-12-12 04:57pm

Kurgan wrote:
The Original Nex wrote:
Kurgan wrote:What utter baloney... the original schematics hologram in Episode II clearly shows the familiar "superlaser" dish. What would a ship of exploration need with such a huge weapon?
I'd assume that those schematics were from after the Geonosians tinkered with the design.
Hmm, I guess I missed the part about how the Geonosians didn't invent it. In the movie, Poggle the Lesser calls it "OUR design for the ultimate weapon." So who came up with it first (I assume) according to this book?

Well, Seinar came up with concept for a huge battle station and others (don't know who) came up with the Expeditionary Planetoid, it seems the Geonosians blended the two designs which is why Poggle say "our" design.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-12-12 04:59pm

Lord Revan wrote:
The Original Nex wrote:How much of this book is becoming S-level canon as soon as it's published?
At least everything dealing with ranges of anything, but ground weapons.

Even some ground weapons too. The AotC ICS says that clone trooper rifles have an effective range of 6km when mounted on a tripod. Why would E-11s maximum range be cut to 300meters? It's not THAT much smaller of a weapon, there's no reason for its range to be in the meters when a slightly heavier weapon has ranges in the kilometers.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-12-12 06:15pm

Maximum effective range of a short-barreled scopelese carbine could well be 300m or so, while a tripod-mounted weapon that does not suffer from bolt drop could probably get hits on formations at 6km.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-12-12 08:56pm

The Original Nex wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
The Original Nex wrote: I'd assume that those schematics were from after the Geonosians tinkered with the design.
Hmm, I guess I missed the part about how the Geonosians didn't invent it. In the movie, Poggle the Lesser calls it "OUR design for the ultimate weapon." So who came up with it first (I assume) according to this book?
Well, Seinar came up with concept for a huge battle station and others (don't know who) came up with the Expeditionary Planetoid, it seems the Geonosians blended the two designs which is why Poggle say "our" design.

Is this explained somewhere *in* the NEGW&T? I don't own the book, so I ask. Another key question is what side this guy was on. The previously established history assumes that the DS1 was developed during the time of the Empire, in secret, under Bevel Lemisk, Gov. Tarkin & Qwi Xux (with Palpatine's approval of course). Poggle the Lesser makes it sound like they ('they' meaning the Geonosians or the Seperatists?) will be "doomed" if the Republic finds out what they have planned.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-12-12 09:37pm

Raithe Sienar came up with the concept he called the Expeditionary Battle Planetoid. The Geonosians developed their "ultimate weapon" from this undesigned inspiration. The Republic tested their own superlaser weapon as depicted in Medstar II, which caused a mass ejection from a star that flash-fried an inhabited world. Later, Tarkin establishes Maw Installation and puts Lemilisk (who was part of Poggle's team), Xux, and Sirvon to work implementing the ideas into the Death Star.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-12-12 09:51pm

Interesting. I take it Medstar I is one of those "between prequel" novels taking place before AOTC?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-12-13 03:05am

Kurgan wrote:Interesting. I take it Medstar I is one of those "between prequel" novels taking place before AOTC?

yeah. It happens 2 years after the battle of Geonosis.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-12-13 09:40am

Interesting. I take it Medstar I is one of those "between prequel" novels taking place before AOTC?

yeah. It happens 2 years after the battle of Geonosis.

That would make it "before ROTS", then, wouldn´t it?