Six Court-Marshalled for scrounging vehicles.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-13 12:41pm

COLUMBUS, Ohio - At a time when some U.S. troops in Iraq are complaining they have to scrounge for equipment, six Ohio-based reservists were court-martialed for taking Army vehicles abandoned in Kuwait by other units so they could carry out their own unit's mission to Iraq.

The soldiers say they needed the vehicles, and parts stripped from one, to deliver fuel to Iraq, but their former battalion commander said Sunday the troops should at least have returned the vehicles to their original units.

Members of the 656th Transportation Company based in Springfield, west of Columbus, said they needed the equipment to deliver fuel that was needed by U.S. forces in Iraq for everything from helicopters to tanks.

The reservists took two tractor-trailers and stripped parts from a five-ton truck that had been abandoned in Kuwait by other units that had already moved into Iraq, one of the reservists, Darrell Birt of Columbus, told The Associated Press on Sunday.

Birt, a former chief warrant officer, and the others were charged with theft, destruction of Army property and conspiracy to cover up their crimes. Birt said he and two others pleaded guilty and the other three were convicted. All received six-month sentences.

"Nobody ever reported these trucks stolen. The deal was, when you are moving, if it was going to take more than 30 minutes to fix it, you left it," said Birt, who was released in November. "I'm a Christian man and I can't ignore what we did, but it was justified to get us in the fight and to sustain the fight."

Last week, the military said it would not court-martial any of 23 other Army reservists who refused a mission transporting fuel along a dangerous road in Iraq, complaining that their vehicles in poor condition and did not have armor. And on Wednesday, U.S. soldiers complained to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld in Kuwait that they have to scrounge in landfills for scrap metal and discarded bullet-resistant glass to provide armor for their vehicles.

The reservists in the 656th Transportation Company had to move their equipment along with the fuel and likely did not have enough vehicles to do so in one trip, their former battalion commander, Lt. Col. Christopher Wicker, said in a telephone interview Sunday.

"That would have required multiple trips back. They do not have many cargo trucks. They are fuel haulers," he told The Associated Press.

But once the reservists were done with the assignment, they should have sought out the units the vehicles belonged to, he said.

"Instead of taking the trucks back to their rightful owners, the first thing was erasing the identity marks and dumping them off at bases," Wicker said. "They destroyed it. They did the enemy's job. ... Those trucks could be used for other units."

Wicker ordered the investigation of the thefts, which occurred before he assumed the battalion post.

"Taking the trucks in my mind was not the worst thing they did," Wicker said from Fort Hood, Texas, where he is now with the Army's 13th Corps Support Command.

The 656th's former company commander, Maj. Cathy Kaus, told the Chicago Tribune in Sunday's editions that although she knew the equipment had been stolen, she could not determine its owners. The Tribune said the vehicles were never reported stolen, according to court-martial transcripts.

Kaus is serving a six-month sentence. She and Birt have applied for clemency, which could restore their military benefits and change their dishonorable discharges. Birt said Sunday that his clemency had been denied and he is appealing.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-12-13 01:20pm

yay. go rumsfield.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-12-13 01:26pm

The vehicles were fucking abandoned, wrecks as far as the military was concerned. These soldiers put new life into them. Instead of prosecuting these soldiers for "stealing" the trucks, why not prosecute the soldiers who bloody left them behind?

Gah, fucking military beuracracy.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2004-12-13 05:11pm

Secretary of Defense should be a military man, not a politician. I wonder if Collin Powell could've been a nice Sec of Defense.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2004-12-13 05:39pm

"Instead of taking the trucks back to their rightful owners, the first thing was erasing the identity marks and dumping them off at bases," Wicker said. "They destroyed it. They did the enemy's job. ... Those trucks could be used for other units."

I think the issue that drove this is more the fact that, after using them, they deliberately tried to destroy the evidence of the act. I agree with what they did in the first place, but that was out of line.

Of course, so is a dishonorable discharge for this.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-12-13 05:40pm

Alyeska - it seems like the soldiers "dumped" the vehicles once they were done with their own mission.

"Instead of taking the trucks back to their rightful owners, the first thing was erasing the identity marks and dumping them off at bases," Wicker said. "They destroyed it. They did the enemy's job. ... Those trucks could be used for other units."

They didn't even keep the equipment they appropriated. I think that's why they got the sentence.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2004-12-13 05:42pm

Dear god, please tell me that Axis and I didn't do a mindsynch. WHYYYYY?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-12-13 05:42pm

Shinova wrote:Secretary of Defense should be a military man, not a politician. I wonder if Collin Powell could've been a nice Sec of Defense.

The whole point of a civilian Secy of Defense is to reinforce the fact that our militray is under the command of the civilian government and not vice versa.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-13 05:45pm

Stravo wrote:
Shinova wrote:Secretary of Defense should be a military man, not a politician. I wonder if Collin Powell could've been a nice Sec of Defense.
The whole point of a civilian Secy of Defense is to reinforce the fact that our militray is under the command of the civilian government and not vice versa.

And look how well that worked out...

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-12-13 05:49pm

SirNitram wrote:
Stravo wrote:
Shinova wrote:Secretary of Defense should be a military man, not a politician. I wonder if Collin Powell could've been a nice Sec of Defense.
The whole point of a civilian Secy of Defense is to reinforce the fact that our militray is under the command of the civilian government and not vice versa.
And look how well that worked out...

Say what you will at least we're not like some Bananna Republic with an El Presidente for life in Green Fatigues. I'll take some civilian mismanagement that evetually is voted out or has to leave over too much control handed over to the military.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-13 05:51pm

Stravo wrote:Say what you will at least we're not like some Bananna Republic with an El Presidente for life in Green Fatigues. I'll take some civilian mismanagement that evetually is voted out or has to leave over too much control handed over to the military.

False Dileema. A Sec of Defense from the service does not equal becoming a military junta.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-12-13 05:57pm

SirNitram wrote:
Stravo wrote:Say what you will at least we're not like some Bananna Republic with an El Presidente for life in Green Fatigues. I'll take some civilian mismanagement that evetually is voted out or has to leave over too much control handed over to the military.
False Dileema. A Sec of Defense from the service does not equal becoming a military junta.

But that's the source of the tension and tradition. We want civilans to be at the top of the chain of command on every level to maintain the idea of civilian controlled armies.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-12-13 06:11pm

Perhaps in order to be SecDef you should have had to either have served as the Joint Chief of Staff (Ie: Powell) or have served as either the Army, Air Force or Navy Commander. At the very least the Secretary should have some prior experiance at the Flag level.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-12-13 06:16pm

I actually suspect that this is more of a revenge case on the part of some other unit which wanted the equipment. In situations where resources are low, competition for supplies can become, as I understand, really quite intense.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-12-13 06:32pm

Axis Kast wrote:Alyeska - it seems like the soldiers "dumped" the vehicles once they were done with their own mission.

"Instead of taking the trucks back to their rightful owners, the first thing was erasing the identity marks and dumping them off at bases," Wicker said. "They destroyed it. They did the enemy's job. ... Those trucks could be used for other units."
They didn't even keep the equipment they appropriated. I think that's why they got the sentence.

So did the soldiers who FIRST ditched the vehicles. How come they aren't being court martialed?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-12-13 06:34pm

Alyeska wrote:
So did the soldiers who FIRST ditched the vehicles. How come they aren't being court martialed?

The MP's probably can't track down who initially did it unless someone rats them out. Fat chance of that.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-12-13 06:37pm

So did the soldiers who FIRST ditched the vehicles. How come they aren't being court martialed?

The first ones abandoned their material at base camps; I don't think they burned them.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-12-13 07:51pm

These guys should get medals for using their heads, not courts-martial. Clemenceau was right when he said a court-martial was to justice what military marches were to music.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-12-13 07:55pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:Perhaps in order to be SecDef you should have had to either have served as the Joint Chief of Staff (Ie: Powell) or have served as either the Army, Air Force or Navy Commander. At the very least the Secretary should have some prior experiance at the Flag level.

I'm not so demanding. I'll settle for someone who can count to eleven without opening his zipper. Rumsfeld is such an asshole.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-12-13 08:23pm

Elfdart wrote:
I'm not so demanding. I'll settle for someone who can count to eleven without opening his zipper. Rumsfeld is such an asshole.

Well if people don't allow unqualified people to fix their cars, work on their teeth, perform surgery, why would the populace allow someone who knows dick about running the military to run it?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-13 08:25pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Elfdart wrote:
I'm not so demanding. I'll settle for someone who can count to eleven without opening his zipper. Rumsfeld is such an asshole.
Well if people don't allow unqualified people to fix their cars, work on their teeth, perform surgery, why would the populace allow someone who knows dick about running the military to run it?

But you don't understand! Rumsfield is here to run the military like a business! Businesses make money, so obviously the military will be better off! You dirty socialists just don't understand.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-12-13 08:32pm

SirNitram wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote:
Elfdart wrote:
I'm not so demanding. I'll settle for someone who can count to eleven without opening his zipper. Rumsfeld is such an asshole.
Well if people don't allow unqualified people to fix their cars, work on their teeth, perform surgery, why would the populace allow someone who knows dick about running the military to run it?
But you don't understand! Rumsfield is here to run the military like a business! Businesses make money, so obviously the military will be better off! You dirty socialists just don't understand.

Oh my god... it all makes sense now!

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-12-13 08:43pm

SirNitram wrote:
But you don't understand! Rumsfield is here to run the military like a business! Businesses make money, so obviously the military will be better off! You dirty socialists just don't understand.

The only way Rumbag could run the mlilitary like a business and make money would be to hire units out as mercs.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-13 08:52pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
But you don't understand! Rumsfield is here to run the military like a business! Businesses make money, so obviously the military will be better off! You dirty socialists just don't understand.
The only way Rumbag could run the mlilitary like a business and make money would be to hire units out as mercs.

Any time I call someone a socialist, I'm using extreme sarcasm.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-12-13 08:55pm

Yeah; as much as I'm ready to defend Bush strategies, I cannot condone Rumsfeld's blatant mismanagement of Iraq.

It's one thing to make mistakes - which the Bush administration did -, and it's another to compound them with a refusal to adapt to changing situations down the road.

Granted, Rumsfeld was on the spot - and he's right: you go to war with the army you have. But he's had more than enough time to ship over M-113s. And he just hasn't done it.