Population of Coruscant

[FTeik]

What would you need large quantities of droids for, if there are by comparison insignificant numbers of organic beings?

Keep in mind, that Coruscant isn´t famous for huge shipyards (like Kuat) or lots of automated factories (like Mechis III), but for its dense population. The only things this planet is supposed to produce are officers, bureaucrats and managers.

Sidenote, an american trillion is 10^12, while an european trillion is 10^18, correct? So could an european trillion already be to much, if we are talking about "thousands of (american) trillions"?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Just for the record, because of such confusion "European billion/trillion," more correctly called the long scale, was discontinued for official international purposes a number of years ago. The "American" short scale is the international standard notation.

Confusion still occurs though because of malcontents, people who don't know any better, and such.

[The Kernel]

What would you need large quantities of droids for, if there are by comparison insignificant numbers of organic beings? Keep in mind, that Coruscant isn´t famous for huge shipyards (like Kuat) or lots of automated factories (like Mechis III), but for its dense population.

Firstly, the vast amount of support infrastructure required for the vast human population. There isn't any concievable way that Coruscant imports everything; that would leave it not only extremely vulnerable but become a logistical nightmare. The energy, food and everyday products would need to be created at home. The luxury items could be imported, but that's about it.

Secondly, there is more to manufacturing than shipyards. Manufactured goods can be created as well as droids or a billion other things, not to mention refining of certain resources (metals, fuels, etc). There could be any number of exports to choose from.

The only things this planet is supposed to produce are officers, bureaucrats and managers.

You think any planet can survive that level of specialization? That may be what it is most famous for (after all, it is the capital), but Coruscant is still a world and it still needs to be self-sufficient to a degree (which we know it is given that it has enough supplies to last for months without ANY external shipping).

[FTeik]

Just for the record, because of such confusion "European billion/trillion," more correctly called the long scale, was discontinued for official international purposes a number of years ago. The "American" short scale is the international standard notation.

Confusion still occurs though because of malcontents, people who don't know any better, and such.

Only in english-speaking countries, as far as i know. Greece, Turkey and Russia have mixed systems of "long scale" and "short scale", IIRC and most european countries use the "long scale" system.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Yes, that's what I meant.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Because if only .1% of it is inhabited, its not a fucking city, genius.

You are splitting hairs. It can still be a giant city and have an enormous amount of its resources and population be droids.

The sentence, "the whole planet is one big city" is fulfilled by .1% observed-level actual inhabitation by the most semantically nitpicking intellectually dishonest whores. Give me a break.

You're not talking about 50%, 70% or even 90%. You're talking about over three orders of magnitude. A simple cursory analysis indicates that we have fewer observed instances of industrial districts than inhabited zones, and that the description of the planet is counterintuitive with even a simple majority of uninhabited industrialism as opposed to residential zones - particularly when the EU DOES descriminate for factory worlds, which appear to be pure factory worlds and not cities.

You are a dishonest semantics whore. This is like looking at Tokyo and concluding an average population density of Wyoming on the authority that a source which has repetatively lied on matters of scale and counterintuitively with respect to the canon - for instance they are off on the galactic population by at least two orders of magnitude.

They have dedicated construction/factory worlds which are described as such. Coruscant is one big city. The whole thing is covered with deep sprawl.

Let me get this straight, you are hanging your entire argument on the use of the word "city"?

Because to those of us that actually watch STAR WARS, its quite obvious that Coruscant is not supposed to be a .1% inhabited rock of industrial power.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Firstly, the vast amount of support infrastructure required for the vast human population. There isn't any concievable way that Coruscant imports everything; that would leave it not only extremely vulnerable but become a logistical nightmare. The energy, food and everyday products would need to be created at home. The luxury items could be imported, but that's about it.

Saxton indicated that this claim was bullshit. The logistics are quite feasible.

Furthermore, after a major energy center in the Core Worlds was attacked by the Seperatists, Coruscant was threatened with total power loss drought. They have dedicated agriculture worlds for feeding the Core.

And besides, the entire energy consumption of Coruscant is probably comparable to less than an Eclipse - power generation technology is amazingly compact in SW.

Secondly, there is more to manufacturing than shipyards. Manufactured goods can be created as well as droids or a billion other things, not to mention refining of certain resources (metals, fuels, etc). There could be any number of exports to choose from.

They have dedicated planets for this anyway. Telti, Mechis III, etc. They have factory worlds.

You think any planet can survive that level of specialization? That may be what it is most famous for (after all, it is the capital), but Coruscant is still a world and it still needs to be self-sufficient to a degree (which we know it is given that it has enough supplies to last for months without ANY external shipping).

Really, when is that? In every successful attack, everyone jumps off the rock as quickly as possible. And during the New Republic, the population was obviously lower and the place more prepared for sieges than it had been during the old Republic.

[kheegster]

Can you believe the TPM ITW says Coruscant has a measly population of 1 trillion? Ridiculous.

Of course this could only refer to the Human population rather than the underworld population. Or it only counts the perminant residents of the planet.

The figure could simply be Imperial propaganda, considering the Empire's known pro-human bias. In the same way that slaves were not really counted as part of the population in many countries. Or perhaps a population of a thousand trillion people isn't really a good image for the 'Jewel of the Empire', because large population densities generally mean a lower quality of life.

[PainRack]

Furthermore, after a major energy center in the Core Worlds was attacked by the Seperatists, Coruscant was threatened with total power loss drought. They have dedicated agriculture worlds for feeding the Core.

I hesitate to use this, only because the game featured the world power source as geothermal energy.

The figure could simply be Imperial propaganda, considering the Empire's known pro-human bias. In the same way that slaves were not really counted as part of the population in many countries. Or perhaps a population of a thousand trillion people isn't really a good image for the 'Jewel of the Empire', because large population densities generally mean a lower quality of life.

Right. Like Rome for example, slaves were not considered part of the populace and only Roman "Citizens" were factored in.

Also, in ancient times, the capital of China like Changan did not include the suburbs populace into the census.

[The Kernel]

The sentence, "the whole planet is one big city" is fulfilled by .1% observed-level actual inhabitation by the most semantically nitpicking intellectually dishonest whores. Give me a break.

Not my fault that your .1% inhabitation figure is derived from bogus assumptions about the use of Coruscant's surface.

You're not talking about 50%, 70% or even 90%. You're talking about over three orders of magnitude. A simple cursory analysis indicates that we have fewer observed instances of industrial districts than inhabited zones, and that the description of the planet is counterintuitive with even a simple majority of uninhabited industrialism as opposed to residential zones - particularly when the EU DOES descriminate for factory worlds, which appear to be pure factory worlds and not cities.

So Coruscant isn't a dedicated factory world. Thanks genius, you want to show me where I said it was? What I said was, industrial production could be a large part of Coruscant's surface as well as production of the necessities for the existing population.

You are a dishonest semantics whore. This is like looking at Tokyo and concluding an average population density of Wyoming on the authority that a source which has repetatively lied on matters of scale and counterintuitively with respect to the canon - for instance they are off on the galactic population by at least two orders of magnitude.

Idiot, do you realize that Tokyo and Coruscant have some very distinct differences? Namely that Tokyo is a city where Coruscant is a world. Yes, it is a city world, but it's a world which means that vast majority of its products must be grown at home. The only reason we can have cities with the population density of New York or Tokyo is because an enormous amount of area outside the city is dedicated to providing the necessities of life for people inside the city.

Because to those of us that actually watch STAR WARS, its quite obvious that Coruscant is not supposed to be a .1% inhabited rock of industrial power.

And how much of Coruscant do we see outside of the Imperial City? Answer: not very much. Of course there are going to be a lot of humans inside that area, it's the administrative capital of the Republic.

And btw, your .1% habitation figure is based on some very bogus assumptions about land allocation which point to the importing of most major goods where we know definitively that this is not the case (see below).

[The Kernel]

Furthermore, after a major energy center in the Core Worlds was attacked by the Seperatists, Coruscant was threatened with total power loss drought. They have dedicated agriculture worlds for feeding the Core.

Maybe for certain select items, but otherwise that's not possible. In TLC, during the siege of Courscant, Councilor Fey'la said that they could keep the shield up becuase they had supplies for many months. I'd like to hear how a planet that imports everything like you suggest with a population of 1,000,000,000,000 could possible sustain itself in such a situation.

And besides, the entire energy consumption of Coruscant is probably comparable to less than an Eclipse - power generation technology is amazingly compact in SW.

And what part of your ass did you pull this from? You don't even know what the energy cosumption of Coruscant is, much less the sort of ground based reactors they use. Maybe a hypermatter reactor might make this possible, but I doubt very much anyone wants to deploy a hypermatter power source on a planet for very obvious reasons.

They have dedicated planets for this anyway. Telti, Mechis III, etc. They have factory worlds.

So? How does this disprove the theory that Coruscant dedicates a huge part of its surface to industrial, food and power production?

Really, when is that? In every successful attack, everyone jumps off the rock as quickly as possible. And during the New Republic, the population was obviously lower and the place more prepared for sieges than it had been during the old Republic.

Like I said, in TLC they were said to have enough supplies to hold out for months.

[Darth Wong]

And what part of your ass did you pull this from? You don't even know what the energy cosumption of Coruscant is, much less the sort of ground based reactors they use. Maybe a hypermatter reactor might make this possible, but I doubt very much anyone wants to deploy a hypermatter power source on a planet for very obvious reasons.

What are those "obvious reasons"? Are you assuming that a hypermatter reactor should release all of the potential energy of its fuel when it cooks off? Why?

[The Kernel]

And what part of your ass did you pull this from? You don't even know what the energy cosumption of Coruscant is, much less the sort of ground based reactors they use. Maybe a hypermatter reactor might make this possible, but I doubt very much anyone wants to deploy a hypermatter power source on a planet for very obvious reasons.

What are those "obvious reasons"? Are you assuming that a hypermatter reactor should release all of the potential energy of its fuel when it cooks off? Why?

I thought the general consensous was that hypermatter has roughly the density of a neutron star. If so, a loss of the mass lightening containment field could be disasterous.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I hesitate to use this, only because the game featured the world power source as geothermal energy.

You don't throw out the entire plot because of a technical error. You throw out the technical error. Clearly the planet must be a hypermatter refinery or something or that sort.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Not my fault that your .1% inhabitation figure is derived from bogus assumptions about the use of Coruscant's surface.

No it isn't. The film depicts population densities in the cities which are appropriate, conservatively, for several thousand trillion. You're laughably defending a crackaddled EU estimation of one trillion, so .1% of realistic population density is completely accurate.

Here's a hint, dumbfuck: a city is not "99.9% uninhabited industry." You're just being a semantics whore. We all know what Coruscant is supposed to be; even the EU sources which can't think big realize its a truly planet-encompassing city.

So Coruscant isn't a dedicated factory world. Thanks genius, you want to show me where I said it was? What I said was, industrial production could be a large part of Coruscant's surface as well as production of the necessities for the existing population.

Except there's shipping, and observed shipping seems consistent with realistic needs of the populace. Saxton already figured this out.

And besides, you're again nitpicking. Like I said, you're talking about, on average, 99.9% of the planet-wide sprawl to be mostly uninhabited. Because if those buildings are reasonably populated, it should be several thousand trillion.

When 99.9% of a planet is for a general function like manufacturing, then its hardly unreasonable to suggest it is a manufacturing world. Your arguments imply a grossly disproportionate dedication of the sprawl's volume to items which are almost never suggested or described. You're shoehorning everything, including the OBVIOUS intent of the film, in order to meet a bullshit EU figure.

Idiot, do you realize that Tokyo and Coruscant have some very distinct differences? Namely that Tokyo is a city where Coruscant is a world. Yes, it is a city world, but it's a world which means that vast majority of its products must be grown at home.

I suppose Ukio is only to feed itself? Mechis III to sustain its own droid needs? This is an arbitrary bullshit requirement you pulled out of your ass. We've observed factory, supply, and agricultural worlds which obviously exist solely to sustain city planets. Your argument is garbage.

The only reason we can have cities with the population density of New York or Tokyo is because an enormous amount of area outside the city is dedicated to providing the necessities of life for people inside the city.

And the Republic has billions of resource worlds, and fifty-one million inhabited worlds. Think some of those might be for agriculture, mining, and manufacture to support population centers?

And how much of Coruscant do we see outside of the Imperial City? Answer: not very much. Of course there are going to be a lot of humans inside that area, it's the administrative capital of the Republic.

Oh, and Invisec and other zones are uninhabited by comparison? The rest of the planet is still developed to Imperial City thickness. Guess why? Because people live there. It is not for manufacturing, because they have whole worlds for that.

And btw, your .1% habitation figure is based on some very bogus assumptions about land allocation which point to the importing of most major goods where we know definitively that this is not the case (see below).

Right, as bogus as your "they must be self-sufficient" requirement. Especially using an example of Coruscant during wartime and after capture and a major plague had belegeared the planet. I wouldn't be surprised if there had been an exodus of refugees and the planet has been set up to withstand sieges, being close to a warfront.

None of these things apply during the Galactic Republic, or most of the Galactic Empire.

Praytell, why would Palpatine's Empire at its height need to be self-sufficient for months? Who was going to lay siege to without relief indefinitely?

Maybe for certain select items, but otherwise that's not possible. In TLC, during the siege of Courscant, Councilor Fey'la said that they could keep the shield up becuase they had supplies for many months. I'd like to hear how a planet that imports everything like you suggest with a population of 1,000,000,000,000 could possible sustain itself in such a situation.

Maybe because it was after two decades of war and because Coruscant was close to the front after suffering a plague and capture. Y'know, cities tend to have refugees at wartime.

That has precisely dick to do with the planet at all other times. And the "we" is undefined. Does he mean the government and administration? The whole populace? We know that before the Battle of Coruscant Mon Mothma declined a blockade of Coruscant to force its capitulation. Why? Because the planet would starve to death.

But hey, I can use selective pieces of information and apply them across the board at any time and situation! Weee!!

And what part of your ass did you pull this from? You don't even know what the energy cosumption of Coruscant is, much less the sort of ground based reactors they use. Maybe a hypermatter reactor might make this possible, but I doubt very much anyone wants to deploy a hypermatter power source on a planet for very obvious reasons.

No, idiot, the mass is complex. And fusion couldn't handle many of their needs why again? I don't see any amazingly energy-intense things on Coruscant. The immense acceleration, firepower, and shielding of starships is what makes them need so much energy.

So? How does this disprove the theory that Coruscant dedicates a huge part of its surface to industrial, food and power production?

It doesn't. Your theory is wrong because it is obviously counterintuitive to high canon and you just made it up with no basis in anywhere.

Anyway, the point being if super planet worlds were self-sufficient, they would not need dedicated manufacturing worlds too.

Like I said, in TLC they were said to have enough supplies to hold out for months.

Who is "we"? Did you bother to examine the context? How come a blockade will starve Coruscant to death before? Maybe you ought to do your homework and avoid selective examples?

[Praxis]

Additionally, many of the lower levels of Coruscant could be sparsely inhabited. The majority of the deeper undercity could be mostly uninhabited save for the occasional tribes of scavengers and packs of mutants.

This is supported by the EU, but it wouldn't cut the estimate down to 1 trillion

[Illuminatus Primus]

Psh, of course it does. Its highly reasonable that only the top meter or so is inhabited. Duh.

[Slartibartfast]

European trillion

1,000,000,000,000,000,000 !!!

[PainRack]

You don't throw out the entire plot because of a technical error. You throw out the technical error. Clearly the planet must be a hypermatter refinery or something or that sort.

Or it could be another case of miminalism. Even if the place was a massive hypermatter refinery, the loss of such a place will not cause immediate blackouts on Coruscant, which must be capable of drawing on more power sources than just that one world alone.

Massive economic dislocations, price disruptions, loss of economic production, yes. But blackouts?

[Illuminatus Primus]

You don't throw out the entire plot because of a technical error. You throw out the technical error. Clearly the planet must be a hypermatter refinery or something or that sort.

Or it could be another case of miminalism. Even if the place was a massive hypermatter refinery, the loss of such a place will not cause immediate blackouts on Coruscant, which must be capable of drawing on more power sources than just that one world alone.

Massive economic dislocations, price disruptions, loss of economic production, yes. But blackouts?

No, immediate blackouts are simply moronic, and that's nothing to do with minimalism. I mean really, what are they doing, gathering up geothermal power and beaming it through hyperspace?

[The Kernel]

Sorry, I've been busy lately and haven't had much time with the board. Anyways, to business:

No it isn't. The film depicts population densities in the cities which are appropriate, conservatively, for several thousand trillion. You're laughably defending a crackaddled EU estimation of one trillion, so .1% of realistic population density is completely accurate.

Where have we seen more of Coruscant's surface than the same small area seen in the films of the Imperial City?

Here's a hint, dumbfuck: a city is not "99.9% uninhabited industry." You're just being a semantics whore. We all know what Coruscant is supposed to be; even the EU sources which can't think big realize its a truly planet-encompassing city.

I didn't say that it might only be industry. There are any number of things where droids might be far more suited than humans. Consider the tax system of the Empire and the enormous amount of administrative labor required, and then consider that it is likely that droids could perform those function much better than humans. There are numerous other examples.

Note that I am not defending the 1,000,000,000 figure as accurate, I am saying that it is possible whereas you are saying that it is totally impossible, thus trying to find a way to circumvent your own canon hierarchy philosophy. I don't care what you choose to believe and what sources you take as more canon but from what we see in the films, the 1,000,000,000 figure CAN be rationalized in numerous ways.

Except there's shipping, and observed shipping seems consistent with realistic needs of the populace. Saxton already figured this out.

Really? We've seen 100,000,000,000,000 persons worth of daily shipping? I didn't see this kind of shipping or spaceport industry in the films.

And besides, you're again nitpicking. Like I said, you're talking about, on average, 99.9% of the planet-wide sprawl to be mostly uninhabited. Because if those buildings are reasonably populated, it should be several thousand trillion.

Unless the population of Coruscant outside of the administrative center is either largely automated or heavily populated by droids. Given the self-support industry required AND the level of administrative duties that would need to be carried out that could easily be done by droids, this explanation is plausible if one wants to rationalize the one trillion figure.

When 99.9% of a planet is for a general function like manufacturing, then its hardly unreasonable to suggest it is a manufacturing world. Your arguments imply a grossly disproportionate dedication of the sprawl's volume to items which are almost never suggested or described. You're shoehorning everything, including the OBVIOUS intent of the film, in order to meet a bullshit EU figure.

We must accept the fact that Coruscant is reasonably self sufficient (we'll get to this in a second) which throws out your insessent 99.9% uninhabited figure. We can further rationalize with other things beyond industry (like and extremely lopsided droid population). I'm simply maintaining that it is possible whereas you are saying that it is impossible. See why my side of this argument is MUCH easier to defend?

I suppose Ukio is only to feed itself? Mechis III to sustain its own droid needs? This is an arbitrary bullshit requirement you pulled out of your ass. We've observed factory, supply, and agricultural worlds which obviously exist solely to sustain city planets. Your argument is garbage.

Unless you want to consider that they are filling half the planet with foodstocks, you cannot rationalize an unproductive world. Simply not possible unless we have information from the films that contradicts DIRECTLY the several months worth of supplies quote.

And the Republic has billions of resource worlds, and fifty-one million inhabited worlds. Think some of those might be for agriculture, mining, and manufacture to support population centers?

Of course they do, but they cannot import everything. From a cost standpoint it doesn't make any sense and the fact that we have EU evidence saying that they have their own supplies without needing daily shipments shows that Coruscant has a certain degree of self-sufficiency. It would be idiotic to design the world otherwise; such a planet would be remarkeably vulnerable to a siege.

Oh, and Invisec and other zones are uninhabited by comparison? The rest of the planet is still developed to Imperial City thickness. Guess why? Because people live there. It is not for manufacturing, because they have whole worlds for that.

Your evidence for this? I didn't say the rest of Coruscant is uninhabited, I said that we have no idea as to its function. Just because it is built like a city means nothing; it could be populated by droids or house huge indoor manufacturing, food processing, waste disposal, power production, etc.

Right, as bogus as your "they must be self-sufficient" requirement. Especially using an example of Coruscant during wartime and after capture and a major plague had belegeared the planet. I wouldn't be surprised if there had been an exodus of refugees and the planet has been set up to withstand sieges, being close to a warfront.

Please show proof of this shift.

None of these things apply during the Galactic Republic, or most of the Galactic Empire.

Once again, where is your evidence of a shift of this magnitude? Are you suggesting that Coruscant completely transformed itself?

Praytell, why would Palpatine's Empire at its height need to be self-sufficient for months? Who was going to lay siege to without relief indefinitely?

Are you saying then that the shift didn't occur till the Empire fell? If that's the case, I'd really like to hear how you suggest that a planet like Coruscant was supposed to transform itself in a mere five years into self sufficiency with the enormous population that you suggest.

Maybe because it was after two decades of war and because Coruscant was close to the front after suffering a plague and capture. Y'know, cities tend to have refugees at wartime.

That was five years after Endor, but please elaborate on how Coruscant was able to build up a self sustaining economy from nothing over this period of time.

That has precisely dick to do with the planet at all other times. And the "we" is undefined. Does he mean the government and administration? The whole populace? We know that before the Battle of Coruscant Mon Mothma declined a blockade of Coruscant to force its capitulation. Why? Because the planet would starve to death.

Yeah, I'm sure that he was referring to just the administration.

Are you fucking high? If the capital world of the Republic was starving to death, the sort of revolution that would be involved with that many people would be enormous. It would destroy the solvency of the Republic far better than a single POSSIBLE asteroid hit would. And IIRC, Fey'la preceeded that quote with "I do not see the problem". You don't think he saw trillions starving to death as a problem? Do you think they would just sit back while the people in the Imperial City had food and they didn't?

But hey, I can use selective pieces of information and apply them across the board at any time and situation! Weee!!

Good for you. Your point?

No, idiot, the mass is complex. And fusion couldn't handle many of their needs why again? I don't see any amazingly energy-intense things on Coruscant. The immense acceleration, firepower, and shielding of starships is what makes them need so much energy.

I agree, Fusion is a likely candidate for ground based reactors. Still, power production is going to take up much space for any possible industry or general electrical needs.

It doesn't. Your theory is wrong because it is obviously counterintuitive to high canon and you just made it up with no basis in anywhere.

I have yet to see you point out a direct contradiction. If you dispute my quote, I will be glad to provide the exact text, but the point I am making is clear and you are trying to find ridiculous rationalizations for your argument that Coruscant MUST be a totally population driven world with nothing but the barest of facilities.

Anyway, the point being if super planet worlds were self-sufficient, they would not need dedicated manufacturing worlds too.

Of course they would. There are still going to be elements that they cannot produce themselves. The United States is relatively self-sufficient, does this mean we don't require foreign imports? We could SURVIVE wihout them, but they are still necessary.

Who is "we"? Did you bother to examine the context? How come a blockade will starve Coruscant to death before? Maybe you ought to do your homework and avoid selective examples?

And how is your example any less selective? BTW, how long was this blockade supposed to last exactly? If it is unknown, then you have no contradicting evidence.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Where have we seen more of Coruscant's surface than the same small area seen in the films of the Imperial City?

Its a fucking city, semantics whore. Film over EU.

How come no source anywhere ever says that the majority of Coruscant is manufacturing for self-sufficiency?

I didn't say that it might only be industry. There are any number of things where droids might be far more suited than humans.

Artful dodge, semantics whore. That doesn't change the general point, that a city is not by vast majority not inhabited by citizens.

Consider the tax system of the Empire and the enormous amount of administrative labor required, and then consider that it is likely that droids could perform those function much better than humans. There are numerous other examples.

Oh please, so the bureaucracy and manufacturing and every logistical support mechanism imaginable must be localized on the Coruscanti surface and take up the extreme majority of the surface strata?

This is not a city. You are a semantics whore.

Note that I am not defending the 1,000,000,000 figure as accurate, I am saying that it is possible whereas you are saying that it is totally impossible, thus trying to find a way to circumvent your own canon hierarchy philosophy.

No, to any reasonable person who is not a semantics whore, it is totally ridiculous.

I don't care what you choose to believe and what sources you take as more canon but from what we see in the films, the 1,000,000,000 figure CAN be rationalized in numerous ways.

Only by assuming a "city" means "a built-up area dedicating 99.9% of its volume to something other than dense habitation."

You are a semantics whore who is fabricating enormous amounts of phantom shit to justify something which is openly absurd.

Really? We've seen 100,000,000,000,000 persons worth of daily shipping? I didn't see this kind of shipping or spaceport industry in the films.

You are a nitpicker. So you must literally see

Unless the population of Coruscant outside of the administrative center is either largely automated or heavily populated by droids. Given the self-support industry required AND the level of administrative duties that would need to be carried out that could easily be done by droids, this explanation is plausible if one wants to rationalize the one trillion figure.

Which is ridiculous and openly dishonest when dealing with the realities of the filmic canon. Cities are not composed of .1% inhabited strata. Unless you're a bullshit nitpicker.

This is the same kind of semantical bullfuckery as people like Edam tried to pull with BDZ definitions back in the day.

Everyone knows what a city is, and everyone realizes that Coruscant is supposed to be a totally developed planet. Your nitpickery and semantics whoring does not meet the obvious intent and stated nature of the world.

We must accept the fact that Coruscant is reasonably self sufficient (we'll get to this in a second) which throws out your insessent 99.9% uninhabited figure.

No it doesn't. You're simply arguing, like a bullshitter, that 99.9% uninhabited realistically reflects a city. You're not arguing that its untrue.

We can further rationalize with other things beyond industry (like and extremely lopsided droid population). I'm simply maintaining that it is possible whereas you are saying that it is impossible. See why my side of this argument is MUCH easier to defend?

Who cares? Its still the position of a nitpicking bullshitter.

Unless you want to consider that they are filling half the planet with foodstocks, you cannot rationalize an unproductive world. Simply not possible unless we have information from the films that contradicts DIRECTLY the several months worth of supplies quote.

Yes I can, idiot. The Coruscant of the New Republic is Coruscant after years of war and having undergone capture at gunpoint and a deadly plague.

Furthermore, we have prior examples (AOTC) of mass refugee exodus from budding war zones and political upheaval, much less a Coruscant defended by the NR's weak ineptitude near the front of battle against the Empire. It follows that citizens would probably adopt similar sociological patterns as in the past. Not to mention a state at war near a combat zone must necessarily prepare for sieges more than a state which has never seen a full-scale war and does not have a military (old Republic), or a state which has the only major military and no rivals (the Galactic Empire).

And lastly, you still haven't proved that Fey'lya is refering to the military defense and administration, the whole citizenry, or what.

You're taking a contextless quote and applying it universally over decades and many regimes in different states of strife and stability. You are a bullshitter.

Of course they do, but they cannot import everything. From a cost standpoint it doesn't make any sense

Does NYC fabricate nearly any of its foodstuffs?

and the fact that we have EU evidence saying that they have their own supplies without needing daily shipments shows that Coruscant has a certain degree of self-sufficiency.

That quote does not reference the entire population, and it refers to a wartime Coruscant near the front and after being attacked and decimated by disease a few years earlier.

It would be idiotic to design the world otherwise; such a planet would be remarkeably vulnerable to a siege.

And any of our major metropolitan regions are not hideously vulnerable to disruption of transportation and logistics? I believe every metropolitan center is about four days from starvation, actually.

What do you think kills everyone after a nuclear exchange? It isn't the blast, radiation, and firestorms. Its starvation and disease with the total breakdown of basic social services nationwide.

And better yet, we have such hideously vulnerable cities and we have such threats as nuclear holocaust and foriegn powers. The Galactic Republic had no foriegn rivals. The Galactic Republic has been a monolithic power over nearly the entire galactic civilization without successful or major challenge for 25,000 years. It is VASTLY more secure than the U.S. is, and we have hideously vulnerable cities, so its hardly surprising they do as well.

During heavy wartime, like the New Republic era, I would not be surprised if the population have fallen tremendously, leaving only the rich, the hardcore political supporters, and the support system of the government and major infrastructure, with the world well prepared for siege, disease, and war, since it has undergone all three in the last few years. This is not comparable to the 25,000 year Republic.

Your evidence for this? I didn't say the rest of Coruscant is uninhabited, I said that we have no idea as to its function.

Don't bullshit me, you semantics whore. Your arguments require for 99.9% of the city strata to be essentially uninhabited by citizens in order for the one trillion number to be concievably viable.

Just because it is built like a city means nothing; it could be populated by droids or house huge indoor manufacturing, food processing, waste disposal, power production, etc.

Then it isn't a city; its an industrial and manufacturing center.

Please show proof of this shift.

Show proof of a shift? It makes perfect sense as shown above. It is you who are inventing all this phantom shit using the nitpicking bullshit artist excuse of "we haven't directly seen it." With all due respect, that's bullshit, and it quite obvious that Coruscant is a city and what they mean by city is amply represented as such. And again, there was cityscape in the Coruscant speeder chase which was not part of the Galactic City proper.

I really love the double standard. "You must prove highly probable trends with hard data while it is your job to disprove my suppositions fabricated from thin air and predicated on a single quote without context and without reason to suggest it is a universal case."

Once again, where is your evidence of a shift of this magnitude? Are you suggesting that Coruscant completely transformed itself?

No, simply that she is probably much emptier due to refugees and hardening against potential sieges during wartime. A peacetime Coruscant can be as vulnerable as desired.

Are you saying then that the shift didn't occur till the Empire fell? If that's the case, I'd really like to hear how you suggest that a planet like Coruscant was supposed to transform itself in a mere five years into self sufficiency with the enormous population that you suggest.

Is it not obvious? Much of the population probably fled in the cycles of invasion, disease, and siege in the chaos after Palpatine's death.

That was five years after Endor, but please elaborate on how Coruscant was able to build up a self sustaining economy from nothing over this period of time.

Probably because its population was stunted, dumbass.

I really love how you think your interpretation and position is the default assumption. You still haven't established that Fey'lya meant the whole planet could survive for months on end.

Yeah, I'm sure that he was referring to just the administration.

Are you addressing the potential starvation of Imperial Center upon besieging by the Republic? Thought not.

Are you fucking high? If the capital world of the Republic was starving to death, the sort of revolution that would be involved with that many people would be enormous. It would destroy the solvency of the Republic far better than a single POSSIBLE asteroid hit would. And IIRC, Fey'la preceeded that quote with "I do not see the problem". You don't think he saw trillions starving to death as a problem? Do you think they would just sit back while the people in the Imperial City had food and they didn't?

Then the population is much diminished and the slack has been used to harden the city against potential siege and attack since it is close to the front.

You still haven't addressed why potential starvation was a problem when the Republic planned to besiege Imperial Center years earlier.

Good for you. Your point?

Its called sarcasm, kiddo.

I agree, Fusion is a likely candidate for ground based reactors. Still, power production is going to take up much space for any possible industry or general electrical needs.

Prove it. And imbecile, they're going to have to acquire that hydrogen from off-world.

I have yet to see you point out a direct contradiction.

Coruscant is a fucking city, retard.

Imperial Center would've starved under blockade three years after Endor.

If you dispute my quote, I will be glad to provide the exact text, but the point I am making is clear and you are trying to find ridiculous rationalizations for your argument that Coruscant MUST be a totally population driven world with nothing but the barest of facilities.

Man o straw.

In order for a city which should by comparison to modern cities' population densities have minimum population in the thousands of trillions to actually have a population of only one trillion, than the VAST MAJORITY of that city strata (>99.9%) must be uninhabited. Simple mathematics. If this is true, than Coruscant is more an industrial complex than a city world.

Saying that the "facilities" should not be three orders of magnitude more expansive than the habitation is not saying it should have the "barest."

It helps to misrepresent though, doesn't it?

Of course they would. There are still going to be elements that they cannot produce themselves. The United States is relatively self-sufficient, does this mean we don't require foreign imports? We could SURVIVE wihout them, but they are still necessary.

A nation-state is not a city, retard.

New York City is not self-sufficient. Totally cut-off from the outside world, it would fucking starve.

And how is your example any less selective? BTW, how long was this blockade supposed to last exactly? If it is unknown, then you have no contradicting evidence.

Please - this was while the Empire still controlled the Core Worlds. They specifically mentioned the problem of a blockade in terms of giving the Empire time to marshal a counterattack to drive off the blockading force. The speed of hyperdrive gives transit across the galaxy in a day or less. And the grand conquering fleet of the Republic was two ISDs, Home One, and a few more MC80 and MC80a cruisers with the typical mish-mash of crap designs. How long do you think it'd take the Empire to marshal a force to drive off the Republic's grand fleet - which was probably comparable to a heavy-biased Superiority Fleet at best - only a quarter of a standard Sector Group?

Let's be generous as fuck and assume the Empire is so incompetent and strained that it'd take them three days to send Some Sector Somewhere's SECTGRU to flush out the Republic fleet. The blockade effectiveness time-table must be less for it to be the default strategy of Ackbar. Coruscant must be awfully inefficient at this time if it will begin to starve before the Empire can marshal something tougher than a pathetic two ISDs and a few Mon Calamari cruisers and their escorts and support. Fuck, the Sector Zero Sector Group should be more than that.