Nazi floral arranging?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-12-15 07:42pm

Plants sow seeds of hate
Fiona Hudson, city editor
10dec04

A FLORAL foul-up has left a city street lined with swastika shapes in a week of major Jewish celebrations.

Gardeners hired by Melbourne City Council intended to arrange the purple and white pot plants into neat geometric shapes.

But they left six 3m garden beds along Swanston St displaying large Nazi symbols.

Jewish community representatives were appalled last night by the timing of the blunder.

City venues including Federation Square are hosting hundreds of Jews this week to celebrate the eight-day Hanukkah festival.

The council sent hired green thumbs to rearrange the six offending garden beds last night, about an hour after Herald Sun inquiries.

"The arrangements, even if done inadvertently, are in appalling taste," Lord Mayor John So said. "I have asked that they be changed immediately."

Vandals were initially believed to have rearranged the plants as a racist slur. But closer investigation showed gardeners had inadvertently used the pattern.

Jewish-born councillor Carl Jetter at first said he was appalled by the arrangements, which he thought were vandalism.

"It's sad and it's unnecessary. It makes us, as an international destination, more uncomfortable," he said.

"I disagree with and don't want to see any racist activity in our city."

When told the swastikas appeared to be unintentional, Cr Jetter dismissed concerns.

"It just sounds like an accident," he said.

A spokeswoman for deputy mayor Gary Singer, who is also Jewish, declined to make a comment.

Holocaust Museum president Shmuel Rosenkranz described the flower fiasco as offensive to most Melburnians.

"Any swastika anywhere would be of offence to anybody who lived through the Hitler era," he said.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-12-15 07:52pm

It looks to me like a honest mistake. Whoever prepared the fauna was probably concentrating more on the red rectangles and didn't realize the shape the white area was taking on.

Still pretty funny, though.

Post by **Coyote** » 2004-12-15 08:06pm

"Any swastika anywhere would be of offence to anybody who lived through the Hitler era," he said.

Better not go to India!!!

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-12-15 08:30pm

That's actually pretty funny. I never really thought about how simple a swastika design really is.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-12-15 09:11pm

There is an enormous Svastika outside Berlin every autumn. Some local nazis during the Third Reich days planted trees that drop their leaves a bit earlier than the surrounding forest in a svastica pattern so early in the autumn if you are flying over the forest you will see a giant yellow svastica.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-12-15 09:35pm

CJvR wrote:There is an enormous Svastika outside Berlin every autumn. Some local nazis during the Third Reich days planted trees that drop their leaves a bit earlier than the surrounding forest in a svastica pattern so early in the autumn if you are flying over the forest you will see a giant yellow svastica.

I bet there are conspiracy theories about that.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-12-15 09:38pm

lol. . .thats great

Dargos · Post by **Dargos** » 2004-12-16 03:34am

Joe wrote:It looks to me like a honest mistake. Whoever prepared the fauna was probably concentrating more on the red rectangles and didn't realize the shape the white area was taking on.

Still pretty funny, though.

You mean "flora" right?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-12-16 04:18am

No, I mean fauna. Clearly, those are animals disguised as flowers.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2004-12-16 05:43am

Coyote wrote:
"Any swastika anywhere would be of offence to anybody who lived through the Hitler era," he said.
Better not go to India!!!

But those swastikas face in a different direction...not that most people would notice the difference.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-12-16 04:42pm

kheegan wrote:
Coyote wrote:
"Any swastika anywhere would be of offence to anybody who lived through the Hitler era," he said.
Better not go to India!!!
But those swastikas face in a different direction...not that most people would notice the difference.

I noticed the difference ever since the level of Legend of Zelda that was shaped like a "manji". At first I was looking at the map going "WHAT ..THE..FUCK?" but I eventually found out about the good luck symbol and that a swastica faces the other way.

Of course, I often see swastica graffiti that is spraypainted backwards.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-12-16 04:54pm

"Any swastika anywhere would be of offence to anybody who lived through the Hitler era," he said.

He should also not better go to Finnland. Take three guesses what the Finnish air force got as a symbol on their airplanes.....

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-16 04:57pm

The "Nazi" swastika was not invented by the Nazis at all. The (in)famous version is a Solar symbol, the Manji is representative of the night, magic and luck. Both forms are ancient beyond reckoning and are found in carvings from before recorded history across Europe and Asia.

Chalk up another crime for the Nazis: defiling and dishonouring an ancient symbol representing light and law, etc.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-12-16 06:12pm

Lord Zentei wrote:The "Nazi" swastika was not invented by the Nazis at all. The (in)famous version is a Solar symbol, the Manji is representative of the night, magic and luck. Both forms are ancient beyond reckoning and are found in carvings from before recorded history across Europe and Asia.

Chalk up another crime for the Nazis: defiling and dishonouring an ancient symbol representing light and law, etc.

unfortunately alot of people also tend to overlook the swastika's origins and chalk it up to nazis whenever they see it. it's so strongly associated with nazis they don't even care to learn where it originally came from.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-16 06:28pm

Darth_Zod wrote:unfortunately alot of people also tend to overlook the swastika's origins and chalk it up to nazis whenever they see it. it's so strongly associated with nazis they don't even care to learn where it originally came from.

Indeed. And I can't help but suspect that attempts to rehabilitate the swastika in the eyes of the general public through educating them about the symbol's true origins will be erronously interpreted by many as some kind of pseudo-apologism.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-12-16 06:34pm

Well, I learned about the old meaning of the Swastika in school, but it doesn't change the way I feel about the swastika. When someone spraypaints a black swastika onto the local synogogue, I am pretty sure that it doesn't mean "light and law."

In fact, I'd argue that the meaning of the swastika has been permanently changed, like the meaning of the words gay, doom, meat, etc.. Meanings change. It just happens.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-12-16 07:17pm

Tribun wrote:He should also not better go to Finnland. Take three guesses what the Finnish air force got as a symbol on their airplanes.....

IIRC they changed their crest following WWII, they originaly got it from the nobleman who donated the first aircrafts to the airforce.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-16 07:23pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:Well, I learned about the old meaning of the Swastika in school, but it doesn't change the way I feel about the swastika. When someone spraypaints a black swastika onto the local synogogue, I am pretty sure that it doesn't mean "light and law."

In fact, I'd argue that the meaning of the swastika has been permanently changed, like the meaning of the words gay, doom, meat, etc.. Meanings change. It just happens.

When it comes to synagogue graffiti, then you are certainly right.

There are places in the world where the original meaning still holds, and Bhuddists still use it.

It would be nice if the swastika could be rehabilitated. Still, you may be right.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-12-16 07:31pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:I noticed the difference ever since the level of Legend of Zelda that was shaped like a "manji". At first I was looking at the map going "WHAT ..THE..FUCK?" but I eventually found out about the good luck symbol and that a swastica faces the other way.

Of course, I often see swastica graffiti that is spraypainted backwards.

You can find swastikas facing both directions in India, and Tibet.

Trivia-The swastika was known as the Lucky Cross in the US before the Nazis.
The swastika being stygmatised as a symbol non grata began to happen during the 30's, before WWII and the Holocaust began. Gives you some idea about how a lot of people felt about Hitler even before the war, yes?