Problems with Human Development in Star Wars

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2004-12-16 08:53am

Or, at least with some dates I'm seeing.

The Time Tales Chronology places the height of the Taung civilization on Coruscant at ~200,000 BBY, but also puts the complete urbanization of Coruscant by humans at ~100,000 BBY. I'm no anthropologist, but 100,000 years doesn't seem like enough time for the human race to develop from hunter-gatherer to planet-covering city-dweller.

My guesses:

a) Time Tales (and/or the official sources) got the dates wrong, and the Taungs were a much earlier species.

b) The Taungs were humans (I've yet to see it mentioned that they specifically were not human, though that seems to be the intent)

c) Humans were brought to Coruscant at an already-developed stage by a higher power (Corellian system builders, hyperspace aliens, etc.)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-16 09:04am

I think it's actually more than clear that Humans colonised Coruscant after developing much of their technology while spreading away from Corellia.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2004-12-16 09:33am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I think it's actually more than clear that Humans colonised Coruscant after developing much of their technology while spreading away from Corellia.

Source? It's okay for conjecture, but that's completely unsupported.

It's true that the Corellians are the only humans that we know exist at the time that human civilization develops on Coruscant, but the utter lack of mention of any early Corellian colonization attempts cannot go unnoticed.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-12-16 09:34am

Robert Treder wrote: c) Humans were brought to Coruscant at an already-developed stage by a higher power (Corellian system builders, hyperspace aliens, etc.)

Or by humans themselves. After 200,000 years any tales about the origin of humans, even with literate civilization the whole while, would be close to creation myths.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-16 09:48am

Robert Treder wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I think it's actually more than clear that Humans colonised Coruscant after developing much of their technology while spreading away from Corellia.
Source? It's okay for conjecture, but that's completely unsupported.

It's true that the Corellians are the only humans that we know exist at the time that human civilization develops on Coruscant, but the utter lack of mention of any early Corellian colonization attempts cannot go unnoticed.

It's conjecture based on evidence and information. It's more or less known that Humans couldn't have been from Coruscant. For one thing the planet is slightly too cold naturally.

This following is based on a conjecture shared by IP and myself. After being deposited on Corellia by the Hyperspace Aliens, Humans gradually develop spaceflight and spread across the Core, colonising among others, Alderaan and more importently Coruscant. The Taung were already gone by the time Humans arrived and gradually turned the planet into the urbanised capitol of the Galaxy.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2004-12-16 10:00am

Fair enough. Although to nitpick, Alderaan is known to have been colonized by ships from Coruscant, relatively recently (only a few thousand years before the creation of the Republic).

Chandrila is a candidate, though. The Chandrilan civilization's origins are unclear, but it is probably older than hyperspace.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-16 10:12am

Corellia is better, though, since it unites a purpose for both the Corellian System and the Maw.

Executor32 · Post by **Executor32** » 2004-12-16 01:52pm

Then there's the KOTOR version, which holds that humans are the descendents of an advanced civilization on Tatooine, which was destroyed in a war with the Rakata.

Tatooine used to be an Earth-like planet, and the sentient race inhabiting it had a civilization at least as advanced as our own, possibly more so. At some point between 100,000 BBY and 30,000 BBY, the Rakatan Infinite Empire discovered the planet, and began using the inhabitants as slaves. When the Rakata began losing their Force sensitivity and the slave races (Tatooinians included) rebelled around 30,000 BBY, the Rakata attacked Tatooine, utterly devastating the surface and transforming it into the wasteland it is today. Humans are descended from the slaves who were off-planet, and the survivors on-planet went into hiding, adapted to the new climate, and are now known as the Tusken Raiders.

It doesn't really jibe with other sources, but it is a nice story. It also explains why Tuskens hate humans so much (they remind the Tuskens of their former civilization, which the have come to believe was destroyed by the gods for becoming too 'excessive')

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-16 01:53pm

Um, I think you've got it a little off.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-12-16 02:16pm

Executor32 wrote:snip

Wow. That whole story works so much better in Stargate.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-16 02:19pm

Yet another reason why Bioware shouldn't write Star Wars, besides the fact that they just make it an AD&D rehash.

Executor32 · Post by **Executor32** » 2004-12-16 03:16pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Um, I think you've got it a little off.

If you're saying that because it's not the real origin of humans in SW, then I totally agree: I think your and IP's conjecture best fits the 'facts'. However, if you're saying that because I misremembered what the Tusken storyteller and the Rakata said, then please feel free to correct me.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-12-16 08:31pm

If the Taungs are a civilization, then by definition their phase is not "hunter-gatherer." Also, Coruscant is NOT the human homeworld, so the Taungs and Zhell are not human and they have no relevance as to the speed of human societal development.

EDIT: The Rakata are dumb; they supposedly have an empire that spans the galaxy but contains colonies numbered only in the hundreds? There are thirty-thousand dependencies in the Chommell Sector alone.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2004-12-17 04:42am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Corellia is better, though, since it unites a purpose for both the Corellian System and the Maw.

I meant a candidate for having been colonized by early sub-light Corellians, not for the human homeworld.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:If the Taungs are a civilization, then by definition their phase is not "hunter-gatherer." Also, Coruscant is NOT the human homeworld, so the Taungs and Zhell are not human and they have no relevance as to the speed of human societal development.

I didn't mean the Taungs were hunter-gatherers. I meant that if Coruscant is the human homeworld, then the humans would be those hunter-gatherers.

But, as you say, Coruscant isn't the human homeworld, and the Taungs and Zhell are evidence to that effect: if Coruscant were the human homeworld, humanity would have less than one hundred thousand years to reach a super-advanced state, lest their development overlap the period of Taung dominance on the planet.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-12-17 11:20am

Excuse me, but what is the problem with the 100,000 years time frame?
As I know (my knowledge is limited, so feel free to correct), our race (the homo sapiens, I mean) developed around 40,000 years ago, then we did nothing for 35,000 years. But in the last 5,000 or so years we changed from hunter - gatheres to be ready to build the first fusion generator ...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-17 12:01pm

Actually, the species Homo sapiens is about 300,000 years old.

12,000 years ago is around when we see dog domestication, pottery, and the beginnings of permanent dwellings. 11,000 years ago is when agriculture and more animal domestication occurs. 10,000 years ago is when agriculture becomes more widespread and long-term settlements appear. About 6000 years ago is the emerging of writing and the foundation of cities. And 5000 years ago is the beginnings of urbanisation and the establishment of city-states.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-12-17 12:25pm

Thanks Spanky!
So I was wrong. 20,000 years ago, we were just hunting and gathering, and now we are ready to build a fusion power plant (after the politicians can decide where to build it). It still leaves dozens of thousands of years to fill ... And we cannot even predict how we will live in 100 years, not to mention thousands.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-12-17 01:55pm

extinction or galactic civilization. one of the two.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-17 02:13pm

slighty off topic...Is there any relation/connection between SW humans and earth's humans?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-17 02:40pm

There has to be. The likelyhood of it being a cooincidence is astronomically low.

IP and my shared theory is that the Hyperspace Aliens travelled across time and space and transplanted Humans from prehistoric Earth to Corellia.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-12-17 04:31pm

I like Wong's theory. ; )

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-17 04:39pm

Bah. IP and mine's is less of a deus ex machina.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-12-17 04:56pm

And the 'Hyperspace Aliens' are any less of one? C'mon now...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-12-17 05:05pm

No, they aren't.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-12-18 02:53am

Good. Glad that's settled!

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Problems with Human Development in Star Wars

Problems with Human Development in Star Wars

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