"Daddy is Christmas Under Attack?"

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-12-20 10:54am

I'm sitting having breakfast this weekend. My daughter is sitting with me at the table and I'm half paying attention to the TV after flipping for a bit and leaving it on FOX NEWS for some reason or another and that FOX alert bullshit comes up with the sound effects and dramatic music. My daughter who enjoys watching the news for some odd reason (At her age I was off making an ass of myself and my GI JOE figures) looks up, eyes wide open as the announcer intones "Is Christmas under attack?" The graphic has the word "Christmas" with a crucufix in place of the T and cross hairs around the word.

"Daddy, is Christmas really under attack?" she asked me with concern.

"No honey, they're just being very silly and stupid. Don't pay any attention, Christmas is just fine. Some people just like to scare others."

"Why?"

"Because they like feeling strong."

"oh...Well that should be naughty and I bet Santa won't bring them presents."

"No, honey, I don't think he will."

Fuck you FOX. What the hell? They point to the Pope's statement this weekend that Christians must defend the symbols of Chrsitmas so that they don't lose the meaning of it. Whatever, when I step outside my office do I see devout Christians waiting to celebrate the Birth of their savior? No I see a bunch of folks trying desperately to get their shopping done so they don't disappoint their kids or family. The Christ is most definately gone from Christmas and has been for some time and because a few schools have decided to cut out Christmas plays it has the fundies up in arms over the Assault on Christmas. Can't they go live somewhere else, preferably a toxic waste area and let the rest of us move on with our lives?

FOX really does appeal to that lowest common denominator with their bullshit. Congratulations asshats you managed to frighten a 6 yo with your journalistic integrity and fair and balanced coverage.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-12-20 10:58am

You have to understand the mindset of the social reactionary: "change = destruction".

That's why they think marriage is being "attacked". That's why they think Christmas is being "attacked". Even if the change is only from some mythical rose-coloured past which never really existed, it doesn't matter: in their minds, change = destruction. That is the mindset of the conservative; he instinctively fears any and all change, because he has a provincial, small-minded way of looking at the world.

As far as they're concerned, they're getting out an important message about a danger looming to an important societal institution.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2004-12-20 11:02am

It might just be me, but after reading your daughters response, I really want to send Fox News a nice big package of coal.
Would seem fitting if Christmas really is under attack.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-12-20 11:05am

actually, this comes up every year in most national media outlets. Why? Because every year the Pope or some other Jesus related twit complains about the commercialization of Christmas. Which i understand... because I can't for the life of me figure out how we transitioned from celbrating the birth of a diety with religious rites to letting our kids sit on the lap of some fat bearded guy asking him to drop presents down our chimney.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-20 11:10am

Col. Crackpot wrote:actually, this comes up every year in most national media outlets. Why? Because every year the Pope or some other Jesus related twit complains about the commercialization of Christmas. Which i understand... because I can't for the life of me figure out how we transitioned from celbrating the birth of a diety with religious rites to letting our kids sit on the lap of some fat bearded guy asking him to drop presents down our chimney.

Well, you transitioned about the same year Saturnalia was replaced with 'Christmas', which was obviously more Christian since the name had 'Christ' in it. Then a bunch of rituals and traditions revolving around family, friends, and plenty were brought over from Saturnalia and the indiginous Winter Solistice holy days. This was how it went until, I think, the Victorian era, when it was finally standardized and some more non-Christian elements were thrown in into Father Christmas/Saint Nicholas/Santa Claus and BAM modern Christmas.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-12-20 11:13am

Col. Crackpot wrote:actually, this comes up every year in most national media outlets. Why? Because every year the Pope or some other Jesus related twit complains about the commercialization of Christmas. Which i understand... because I can't for the life of me figure out how we transitioned from celbrating the birth of a diety with religious rites to letting our kids sit on the lap of some fat bearded guy asking him to drop presents down our chimney.

Don't be stupid; we never "transitioned". The winter solstice has always been celebrated with gift-giving, since the days of Ancient Rome before there were any Christians. Do you realize how old the (relatively recent) Santa Claus myth is? Or do you think it was invented in the last 20 years?

Tom_Aurum · Post by **Tom_Aurum** » 2004-12-20 11:37am

Thank you Wong, for speaking up for the few pagans in the audience here. Thing is, Christmas has been Yule or Solstice for a VERY LONG TIME. Problem is, I think, some people haven't the slightest clue as to how to deal with it. Oh, and there's a certain point at which most of us don't like hearing Carols all over the place too. They get annoying after about the fifth time around.

Slide

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-12-20 11:44am

Darth Wong wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:actually, this comes up every year in most national media outlets. Why? Because every year the Pope or some other Jesus related twit complains about the commercialization of Christmas. Which i understand... because I can't for the life of me figure out how we transitioned from celbrating the birth of a diety with religious rites to letting our kids sit on the lap of some fat bearded guy asking him to drop presents down our chimney.
Don't be stupid; we never "transitioned". The winter solstice has always been celebrated with gift-giving, since the days of Ancient Rome before there were any Christians. Do you realize how old the (relatively recent) Santa Claus myth is? Or do you think it was invented in the last 20 years?

Odin, Mithras, Saturn all had the power of being the solstiace gift giver..

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-20 11:45am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:actually, this comes up every year in most national media outlets. Why? Because every year the Pope or some other Jesus related twit complains about the commercialization of Christmas. Which i understand... because I can't for the life of me figure out how we transitioned from celbrating the birth of a diety with religious rites to letting our kids sit on the lap of some fat bearded guy asking him to drop presents down our chimney.
Don't be stupid; we never "transitioned". The winter solstice has always been celebrated with gift-giving, since the days of Ancient Rome before there were any Christians. Do you realize how old the (relatively recent) Santa Claus myth is? Or do you think it was invented in the last 20 years?
Odin, Mithras, Saturn all had the power of being the solstiace gift giver..

Then again, Mithras was heavily ripped off just to create Christianity, so let's not encourage them.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-12-20 11:46am

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-12-20 11:46am

not to mention that my folks just got done celebrating THEIR holiday...

Post by **Edi** » 2004-12-20 12:13pm

Tom_Aurum wrote:Thank you Wong, for speaking up for the few pagans in the audience here. Thing is, Christmas has been Yule or Solstice for a VERY LONG TIME.

Indeed. In fact, the Finnish word for Christmas is "Joulu", which has the same root as "Yule". Here Jesus and Christianity are extremely conspicuous by their absence in the names of religious holidays in general, which is pretty remarkable given how strongly Christian Finland has been (and still nominally is). Might have something to do with having a non-Indo-European language which together with the class societies of earlier times made destroying the indigenous culture practically impossible because there were no ready means of accomplishing it unlike e.g. in Central Europe.

Edi

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-12-20 02:26pm

My my... and nobody at FOX thought to ask themselves "what will the children think" before crafting that "report"?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-12-20 02:30pm

Patrick Degan wrote:My my... and nobody at FOX thought to ask themselves "what will the children think" before crafting that "report"?

I'd love to know who comes up with the ideas for these graphics. I mean seriously...a crucifix in place of the T and a crosshairs around the word Christmas?!

More to the point, would they have been so quick to place "Chanukah under Attack" or "Ramadan Under Attack." I wonder who's pandering to their demographic.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-12-20 02:45pm

Christmas has been under attack for centuries. Christians have been trying to subvert the true meaning of the Winter Solstice celebration -- gift-giving, good will toward your neighbors and generosity -- with depressing fables about mankind being flawed and in need of some savior from above.

Luckily, capitalism has kept these forces of depression at bay.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-12-20 04:03pm

I don't think the FOX special was really about people attacking the religious aspects of Christmas per se, so much as the fear that the holiday season, once overwhelmingly synonymous with "Christmas" has become all about political equality. "Happy Hannukah, Channukah, Kwanza, Kwaanza, Tet, Ramadan, Eid, etc."

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-12-20 05:02pm

Axis Kast wrote:I don't think the FOX special was really about people attacking the religious aspects of Christmas per se, so much as the fear that the holiday season, once overwhelmingly synonymous with "Christmas" has become all about political equality. "Happy Hannukah, Channukah, Kwanza, Kwaanza, Tet, Ramadan, Eid, etc."

Which is, in turn, about the religious aspects of the season -- specifically one religion's aspects. Christian conservatives are pissed off that they don't have a monopoly on the month of December anymore. How deliciously ironic, considering that the reason they plopped Christ's birthday at the end of December was to appease converts from pagan religions. Guess it's coming back to bite them in their asses.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-12-20 05:18pm

Which is, in turn, about the religious aspects of the season -- specifically one religion's aspects. Christian conservatives are pissed off that they don't have a monopoly on the month of December anymore. How deliciously ironic, considering that the reason they plopped Christ's birthday at the end of December was to appease converts from pagan religions. Guess it's coming back to bite them in their asses.

Christian conservatives? I know plenty of people who aren't Christian conservatives who think any other December holiday outside Christmas is PC "copy-catting."

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-20 05:42pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Which is, in turn, about the religious aspects of the season -- specifically one religion's aspects. Christian conservatives are pissed off that they don't have a monopoly on the month of December anymore. How deliciously ironic, considering that the reason they plopped Christ's birthday at the end of December was to appease converts from pagan religions. Guess it's coming back to bite them in their asses.
Christian conservatives? I know plenty of people who aren't Christian conservatives who think any other December holiday outside Christmas is PC "copy-catting."

Are you consciously aware of how you just missed the point?

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-12-20 06:06pm

Are you consciously aware of how you just missed the point?

It has nothing to do with Christian conservatives. This forum is way too hung up on the idea.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-12-20 06:33pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Are you consciously aware of how you just missed the point?
It has nothing to do with Christian conservatives. This forum is way too hung up on the idea.

Now why would anybody have gotten the wrong impression that Christian conservatives were making an issue of "Christmas under attack", simply because the OP of this thread stated how the FauxNews graphic used a crucifix as the "T" is "Christmas" which was circumscribed with a gunsight?

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-12-20 06:38pm

Now why would anybody have gotten the wrong impression that Christian conservatives were making an issue of "Christmas under attack", simply because the OP of this thread stated how the FauxNews graphic used a crucifix as the "T" is "Christmas" which was circumscribed with a gunsight?

Okay, so say the special was about Christian conservatives. The fact still remains: most of the observations about the "decline" of the Christmas holiday come from people who aren't particularly religious, but are irked at what they believe is a steady stream of PC babying.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-20 06:45pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Now why would anybody have gotten the wrong impression that Christian conservatives were making an issue of "Christmas under attack", simply because the OP of this thread stated how the FauxNews graphic used a crucifix as the "T" is "Christmas" which was circumscribed with a gunsight?
Okay, so say the special was about Christian conservatives. The fact still remains: most of the observations about the "decline" of the Christmas holiday come from people who aren't particularly religious, but are irked at what they believe is a steady stream of PC babying.

Heeeeeeello, bald, unsupported assertion, in a constant fighting retreat back from your completely fradulent initial claim. What's next, Axis? What fallacy will you gift us with?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-12-20 06:46pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Now why would anybody have gotten the wrong impression that Christian conservatives were making an issue of "Christmas under attack", simply because the OP of this thread stated how the FauxNews graphic used a crucifix as the "T" is "Christmas" which was circumscribed with a gunsight?
Okay, so say the special was about Christian conservatives. The fact still remains: most of the observations about the "decline" of the Christmas holiday come from people who aren't particularly religious, but are irked at what they believe is a steady stream of PC babying.

No, the fact remains that this drivel of yours is yet another of your Red Herrings and has nothing to do with the subject of this discussion.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-12-20 06:51pm

I remember someone in another thread mentioned that some good came from turning Saturnalia/Yule into a christian holiday, because now we have all these beautiful carols and yadda yadda (personally I've been lucky enough that I don't have to listen to those, I suppose it's a "first world" perk

), if you so strongly feel about those funky songs, who says someone wouldn't have written some cool pagan songs to sing in the snow too?