Question about the Hoth battle...

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-12-21 04:19am

vakundok wrote:To me it means that for example the images of the EU character who will appear in ep 3 came from the Holocron, so the Holocron was used for both ep2 and ep3.

+http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/feat ... index.html

With Aayla Secura, the process had an interesting twist. She was already an existing heroine, with a built-in audience of comic book readers who understood her origins before she ever made it onto the screen. After seeing artist Jon Foster's original cover art for issue #33 of the ongoing Star Wars series, Writer/Director George Lucas saw star potential.

"Getting the character to look like what George wanted was our primary goal" says Libbert. "He answered a few questions we had related to the character's body image, but it ended up that he wanted the costume to look like the comic book character and the body to be human-like."

+http://www.starwars.com/hyperspace/memb ... 30908.html

I'm surprised to see Denaria identified as such on the call sheet, since that name was established in the Episode II Visual Dictionary and not by Production. During Production, the aide had the jokey name of Twink Kee.

So, no, the Holocron isn't used by production for characters. Comics and the Visual Dictionaries were.

(Of course, it was only a negligible part, but still.) In other words if George Lucas needs something from the EU and noone knows it around him, the answer will come from the Holocron.

Unless there's a Visual Dictionary within easy reach...

First of all, he is the keeper of the Holocron, not the only user of it. What he knows about whether who read it and what for (in other words, the "only rarely") can be considered as the minimum.
What use would it have to production? Images, character backgrounds and some technical specifications (maybe). For novels or comics it is basically useless, unless the author really want to tie in things from other sources.

That's exactly what the Holocron is FOR. Novels and comics. Images, character background, and technical specs come from the DK books rather than the Holocron.

+http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc ... 10817.html

Q: Do you use any of the Star Wars books and guides when working on your designs? Do you look at the "Expanded Universe" at all?

A: As designers we look at all kinds of stuff for inspiration and we have a crack research staff to help us with that. The Star Wars books serve as a starting point and guide for certain types of questions that arise in respect to certain cultures or technologies that have already been established in the movies. The Star Wars Chronicles book is our bible, the Incredible Cross-Section books provide a great starting point when we're adding to existing locations. We usually don't refer to the Expanded Universe materials specifically unless our research team finds something that directly corresponds to our assignment.

Star Wars Insider #68, page 36:

The first two Incredible Cross Sections books were conceived to explore bold new territory in the Star Wars Universe, taking a rare look inside more vehicles and vessels than we have ever seen before, and doing it in unprecidented detail. These books would represent the most thorough research ever done on these vehicles and would receive Lucasfilm's formal imprimatur as canon. These volumes would henceforth be sent out to licencees as reference guides and would even become useful manuals at Industrial Light & Magic, where some of the artwork influenced details in Episodes I and II

Star Wars Insider #68, page pg.43:

As Richard [Chasemore] and Hans [Jenssen] got into the Star Wars universe, they became more comfortable creating new elements. Richard produced the cross-section of Slave I almost entirely on his own, for example. By the time of the Episode I book, I was contributing mainly conceptual guidance and occasional details on ship layouts. It’s a testament to the Star Wars sensibility that Hans and Richard developed that their work eventually was referenced by the Production Art Department and ILM. During the Episode II Cross-Sections book project, Richard asked concept design supervisor Doug Chiang about the weapon systems on Episode II's Slave I. Doug told him, "You should know, you put them there." ILM had followed Richard's illustration in creating the digital Slave I.

STAR WARS INSIDER #45. pg. 21:

Q: Do you have a map of the Star Wars universe in your head-where every creature comes from, what they eat, their society back home?

"I think somewhere in the dark recesses of my company there is something like that, but I've never seen it. I don't really know. Even though I live this and I know the worlds very well, and I know what everything is, half the time I'm in the fortunate position of being able to just make it up. ---George Lucas

In your opinion, the Holocron is basicly nothing more than an in- house CUSWE. I disagree. In my opinion, it is COSWE.

Well then, its too bad for you that my opinion agrees with Chee's opinion of the Holocron.

When someone (from EU production staff) will ask whether how long the Executor is, he/she will get the answer that it is around 19 km. Not because the ITW or ICS contains that, but because the Holocron contains that.

Again, incorrect. As proven above, the DK books are referred to by production, including ILM. Not the Holocron.

You seem to suggest that the Holocron (and Chee with it) is unimportant.

And you seem to overstate its importance in the face of evidence to the contrary.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-12-21 07:27am

Lord Poe:
"And you seem to overstate its importance in the face of evidence to the contrary." Whether the evidence you provided is really contrary depends only on a single thing: [Edited due to poor language skills]Does the Holocron contain the things before they would be published or not? (Or other words, do those DK books only publish the content of the Holocron or not?) (If you wish, I will ask it.)
You seem to forget to react to some of my evidences. But it is not that important.

Let's make it clear:
It is not about the Holocron at all. It is about that what Chee specified as canon policy what he uses states that the DK books are not higher than any other EU for example, not higher than "The gloves of Darth Vader"- or whatever its title was. And it hurts you.
As I understand what Chee wrote:
First of all, this is not true. There are no such things as a C level book in the conventional sense. Things are not examined by books, they are examined case by case. The DK books contain more thing originating from Lucas (5%) than the common EU, but less than the movie novelizations, so, if you want to declare, you can declare them as being more important than the rest of the EU. If you read the Sansweet quote (the link you kindly provided), you can see that he said the same. (Resources are based on how close they are to Lucas, one of them can contain more of it than the others, but other than that, no categorization.) Actually, what Sansweet said is that the novelisations were on the same level (continuity canon) as the Gamer or the Marvel comics with "only" containing more from Lucas' vision.
If you create an order of resources using the G content/C content rate, you will get the good old hierarchy or something very close to it (with the DK books above the common EU).
However, you cannot say that every single bit of information in those DK books are more important than the rest of the EU. May I remind you that you have not answered to the question whether what parts of those books were/are used, whether the parts they added to the already existing resources or not?
Feel free to correct me, if my interpretation is wrong.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-12-21 08:47am

vakundok wrote:Whether the evidence you provided is really contrary depends only on a single thing: [Edited due to poor language skills]Does the Holocron contain the things before they would be published or not? (Or other words, do those DK books only publish the content of the Holocron or not?) (If you wish, I will ask it.)

No, the Holocron is updated after a source is created. For instance, Chee had no idea that "Moff Panaka" mentioned in ITW:SWT existed until after that book came out. Similarly, anything new or revised is created specifically for that book project. The Holocron merely reflects this.

You seem to forget to react to some of my evidences. But it is not that important.

I thought I covered everything of importance in your last post.

Let's make it clear: It is not about the Holocron at all. It is about that what Chee specified as canon policy what he uses states that the DK books are not higher than any other EU for example, not higher than "The gloves of Darth Vader"- or whatever its title was. And it hurts you.

It only 'hurts me" as you put it, when the hierarchy laid out explicitly by LFL is ignored over Chee's database filing system. "The further one branches out from the films" still stands. The "Glove of Darth Vader" is an idiotic joke, and is in no way on the same level as the DK books.

As I understand what Chee wrote:First of all, this is not true. There are no such things as a C level book in the conventional sense. Things are not examined by books, they are examined case by case. The DK books contain more thing originating from Lucas (5%) than the common EU, but less than the movie novelizations, so, if you want to declare, you can declare them as being more important than the rest of the EU.

Books are declared C canon by Chee, not just the information they contain. Something contradicting the films on that point, is ignored But not the whole source.

If you read the Sansweet quote (the link you kindly provided), you can see that he said the same. (Resources are based on how close they are to Lucas, one of them can contain more of it than the others, but other than that, no categorization.) Actually, what Sansweet said is that the novelisations were on the same level (continuity canon) as the Gamer or the Marvel comics with "only" containing more from Lucas' vision.
If you create an order of resources using the G content/C content rate, you will get the good old hierarchy or something very close to it (with the DK books above the common EU).

Ok, if I'm reading this correctly, you seem to be flip-flopping...

However, you cannot say that every single bit of information in those DK books are more important than the rest of the EU.

I'd say they had more validity. They are described several times as the "most definitive" works ever published about the Star Wars universe. You won't see that on a RPG book.

May I remind you that you have not answered to the question whether what parts of those books were/are used, whether the parts they added to the already existing resources or not?

See above.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-12-21 10:28am

Lord Poe wrote:No, the Holocron is updated after a source is created. For instance, Chee had no idea that "Moff Panaka" mentioned in ITW:SWT existed until after that book came out. Similarly, anything new or revised is created specifically for that book project. The Holocron merely reflects this.

Chee wrote:In addition to being an archive for information that has already released, the Holocron is a tool to track everything that is currently in development. Information is entered at the earliest stages, so there is information about products that wont? be released until years later.

The link is here. Excuse me, but I think he knows it better.

I thought I covered everything of importance in your last post.

I meant the quote from Sue Rostoni, and the "evolution" process of the lenght of the Executor.

It only 'hurts me" as you put it, when the hierarchy laid out explicitly by LFL is ignored over Chee's database filing system. "The further one branches out from the films" still stands. The "Glove of Darth Vader" is an idiotic joke, and is in no way on the same level as the DK books.

Books are declared C canon by Chee, not just the information they contain. Something contradicting the films on that point, is ignored But not the whole source.

If you only see this

Chee wrote:"...continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. " By everything else I mean EVERYthing else. Novels, comics, junior novels, videogames, trading card games, roleplaying games, toys, websites, television.

It seems to be the case. However, he was more specific later (repeatedly):

Chee wrote:In a nutshell, anything created by the author would be C-level. Anything in the the novels created by George Lucas ... would be G-level unless contradicted by the films.

Links are here and here.

Ok, if I'm reading this correctly, you seem to be flip-flopping...

No, I just wanted to point out that what Chee said is the same to what Sansweet said, only more specific. You can say that Chee "invented" the G level, but read the Sansweet quote: It mentions not only the movies but also "Lucas' vision".

I'd say they had more validity. They are described several times as the "most definitive" works ever published about the Star Wars universe. You won't see that on a RPG book.

Were they ever stated as being higher in the hierarchy than the far less definitive screenplays or novelizations? As I said, if you want to categorize the sources based on Chee's "classification" you will get the old hierarchy.

If you think/feel that the "Chee's canon policy" contradicts the Sansweet quote, please specify that contradiction, and we can argue (or ask) about it.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-12-21 03:36pm

vakundok wrote: Excuse me, but I think he knows it better.

Excuse ME, but I proved you incorrect. The DK books are developed WITHOUT CONSULTING THE HOLOCRON. Only AFTER THEIR DEVELOPMENT, does a "meeting" take place to determine whether the information DEVELOPED ESPECIALLY FOR THE DK BOOKS has any conflict with continuity. Is that clear enough for you? Moff Panaka was a complete surprise to Chee because MOFF PANAKA WASN'T IN THE HOLOCRON UNTIL ITW:SWT CREATED THAT BIT OF INFORMATION.

If you only see this

Yes, I've SEEN THOSE, you fucking moron. I spoke about Chee's Holocron filing system that RELIES ON LFL CANON/EU HIERARCHY for two posts now. The HOLOCRON FILING SYSTEM DOES NOT DICTATE LFL'S CANON POLICY, NOR DOES IT OVERRIDE IT. I see no reson to continually repeat myself to a jackass that can't be bothered to read my previous post.

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2004-12-21 05:11pm

As for the ACTUAL ON-TOPIC ISSUE...

The calculations of the tipping-momentum look reasonably well-formed.
I would point out that the AT-AT's are capable of bending their legs. That is, if subject to a force from the right, they can side-step a little to the left to keep from falling over. So the value calculated is the passive limit. The actual tolerable lateral momentum is probably pretty close to this limit, but a bit higher.

And in the extreme case, if they see the blast coming in advance, they could kneel (or at least bend their legs to lower their center of mass) for a moment and get back up when the blast was done. We see an AT-AT pull a fast one on an incoming speeder, so this ability does not seem farfetched. Given that VERY effective countermeasure, one can see why the tactic was not attempted.

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2004-12-21 05:30pm

If the rebels have had those asteroid busting missiles from AotC, they could work. Then again could also collapse their own base.

-Gunhead

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-12-21 05:40pm

Robert Walper wrote:Considering a AT-AT will fall over on it's side of it's own accord when damaged, they are hardly the immobile mountains some might claim them to be. I've pointed out they have a very high center of gravity, and that the surface area design (much larger surface area near the top of the vehicle) of a AT-AT makes for knocking them over with a large blast wave a plausible tactic IMO.

This does not follow. Blow my head off and I will undoubtedly fall over, but with a functioning brain a human is a rather stable object.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-21 06:20pm

Howedar wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:Considering a AT-AT will fall over on it's side of it's own accord when damaged, they are hardly the immobile mountains some might claim them to be. I've pointed out they have a very high center of gravity, and that the surface area design (much larger surface area near the top of the vehicle) of a AT-AT makes for knocking them over with a large blast wave a plausible tactic IMO.
This does not follow. Blow my head off and I will undoubtedly fall over, but with a functioning brain a human is a rather stable object.

My point being the AT-AT requires active stabilizing to remain upright. And my other points about a high centre of gravity and large upper surface area are still valid IMO. You'd think a high velocity blast wave would knock them over nicely if hitting them from the side.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-12-21 06:56pm

And again, quantifying that was nicely beyond the Trektard.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-12-21 06:59pm

drachefly wrote: The calculations of the tipping-momentum look reasonably well-formed.

I'll be damned.

I would point out that the AT-AT's are capable of bending their legs. That is, if subject to a force from the right, they can side-step a little to the left to keep from falling over.

They're also able to spread their legs out to widen their cross section, which would guarantee that their (thus lowered) center of mass has to be moved further to tip the AT-AT over.

So 1.1E7 kg-m/s is the lower limit, and that's a helluva-lotta momentum. An impactor the size of a mid-size sedan would almost have to be sent into orbit if it were to knock an AT-AT over(assuming that the armor can withstand that kind of impact).

Low-yield nuclear weapons are another story, since I don't know how to calculate blast pressures. But I have yet to see a nuclear weapon send a Honda (or anything larger than kilogram) into orbit.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-21 08:03pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And again, quantifying that was nicely beyond the Trektard.

Too bad you can't contribute anything of actual worth. Bitching about the fact I'm not a technical expect which I already admitted is rather pointless, don't you think, dumbass?.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-12-21 09:41pm

Robert Walper wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:And again, quantifying that was nicely beyond the Trektard.
Too bad you can't contribute anything of actual worth. Bitching about the fact I'm not a technical expect which I already admitted is rather pointless, don't you think, dumbass?.

You don't get, do you? If you are not going to do your own homework, then do not ask others' to entertain your idle speculation with the assumption from the start that others can do your mathematics for you. That's being an asshole.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-12-21 10:22pm

Robert Walper wrote:
Howedar wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:Considering a AT-AT will fall over on it's side of it's own accord when damaged, they are hardly the immobile mountains some might claim them to be. I've pointed out they have a very high center of gravity, and that the surface area design (much larger surface area near the top of the vehicle) of a AT-AT makes for knocking them over with a large blast wave a plausible tactic IMO.
This does not follow. Blow my head off and I will undoubtedly fall over, but with a functioning brain a human is a rather stable object.
My point being the AT-AT requires active stabilizing to remain upright. And my other points about a high centre of gravity and large upper surface area are still valid IMO. You'd think a high velocity blast wave would knock them over nicely if hitting them from the side.

So if you were to get hit with a football in the back, you would suddenly collapse. After all, you'd be unable to anticipate the hit, you're actively stabilized, and you have a high center of gravity. How hard you are hit apparently does not factor into the equation.

Fascinating.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-22 12:39am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:And again, quantifying that was nicely beyond the Trektard.
Too bad you can't contribute anything of actual worth. Bitching about the fact I'm not a technical expect which I already admitted is rather pointless, don't you think, dumbass?.
You don't get, do you? If you are not going to do your own homework, then do not ask others' to entertain your idle speculation with the assumption from the start that others can do your mathematics for you. That's being an asshole.

Great. Unless I possess a degree in physics, I can't propose scenarios and ask questions about their practicallity.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-12-22 12:45am

Most of the physics used on this website was available in High School and the equations and their meaning are abundantly available in the Internet. Until you have to use calculus I see no excuse by anyone for not doing their own calculations. The rest is just algebraic plug-and-chug.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-22 01:02am

Howedar wrote:So if you were to get hit with a football in the back, you would suddenly collapse. After all, you'd be unable to anticipate the hit, you're actively stabilized, and you have a high center of gravity. How hard you are hit apparently does not factor into the equation.

Fascinating.

For fuck's sake. There's a difference between being hit by a small, relatively slow moving object I outmass by many orders of magnitude, and being hit by a wall of air moving at high speed. Ever tried standing upright in 70kph wind conditions? Never mind be hit by such force unexpectedly.

Nuclear explosions produce compressed blast waves that travel at supersonic speeds. I don't see why it's unreasonable to assume such a blast wave could easily knock over a AT-AT.

If anyone wishes to correct me on my general assumption that a AT-AT should be toppled by a nuclear blast wave, please do so. I'm quite willing to concede the arguement to someone more versed in physics or even just pointing out basic reasoning why we'd expect a AT-AT to easily ward off such a large force exerted on it. Particularily since I've pointed out more than once it has a high centre of gravity and a large upper surface area to have force exerted on.

But I'm not going to concede the arguement based upon the fact I cannot produce calcs to conclusively show the AT-AT would be toppled over. I can't produce calcs "proving" a glass plate dropped off a 2 story building will shatter either, therefore by some people's logic here, I'm not qualified to suggest it would shatter.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-22 01:07am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Most of the physics used on this website was available in High School and the equations and their meaning are abundantly available in the Internet. Until you have to use calculus I see no excuse by anyone for not doing their own calculations. The rest is just algebraic plug-and-chug.

Not everyone is as versed and fluent in mathematics as you think they should be. Case in point, myself. The most I've ever done is Basic programming logic.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-12-22 01:31am

Lord Poe wrote:Excuse ME, but I proved you incorrect. The DK books are developed WITHOUT CONSULTING THE HOLOCRON. Only AFTER THEIR DEVELOPMENT, does a "meeting" take place to determine whether the information DEVELOPED ESPECIALLY FOR THE DK BOOKS has any conflict with continuity. Is that clear enough for you? Moff Panaka was a complete surprise to Chee because MOFF PANAKA WASN'T IN THE HOLOCRON UNTIL ITW:SWT CREATED THAT BIT OF INFORMATION.

If you had bothered to read the Executor example, you would have seen what I was talking about. The author of that source created the lenght of the Executor, and before publishing the information went into the Holocron. You confuse the creation and the publication. The question was: "Whether the evidence you provided is really contrary depends only on a single thing: [Edited due to poor language skills]Does the Holocron contain the things before they would be published or not? (Or other words, do those DK books only publish the content of the Holocron or not?) (If you wish, I will ask it.)" Your answer is not an answer to that question because it was not about who (or how) created the information.

Lord Poe wrote:I spoke about Chee's Holocron filing system that RELIES ON LFL CANON/EU HIERARCHY for two posts now. The HOLOCRON FILING SYSTEM DOES NOT DICTATE LFL'S CANON POLICY, NOR DOES IT OVERRIDE IT.

What is relying if not application of a theory? You, as a fan, claim that you know better how to apply that.

I asked you to specify where Chee's Holocron filling system conflicts that policy at all, but you didn't do that. I also asked you about whether the DK books being the most definitive resources those were sent out as guides were ever placed officially higher than resources those were far less definitive and were not sent out as guides (namely the novelizations and the screenplays). Of course you have not answered because the answer would only show that precision of the source is not the mian decision factor in LFL's canon hierarchy. I could also ask whether the resources those were used in production (namely the comic book that gave Lucas the inspiration) do have higher standing in canon hierarchy (in your example whether the #33 is more important than the rest of the series).

Lord Poe wrote:... you fucking moron.

This ends the debate.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-12-22 01:36am

Robert Walper wrote:For fuck's sake. There's a difference between being hit by a small, relatively slow moving object I outmass by many orders of magnitude, and being hit by a wall of air moving at high speed. Ever tried standing upright in 70kph wind conditions? Never mind be hit by such force unexpectedly.

Nuclear explosions produce compressed blast waves that travel at supersonic speeds. I don't see why it's unreasonable to assume such a blast wave could easily knock over a AT-AT.

I see you're too fucking stupid to read what I actually read. I never contested that an AT-AT might or might not be susceptible to toppling by shockwaves. Obviously a shockwave of sufficient magnitude would tip an AT-AT over. What you said is that an AT-AT is vulnerable to tipping soley due to the fact that one without its head fell over. I demonstrated this argument to be logically and factually unsound, at which point you strawman my arguments.

If anyone wishes to correct me on my general assumption that a AT-AT should be toppled by a nuclear blast wave, please do so. I'm quite willing to concede the arguement to someone more versed in physics or even just pointing out basic reasoning why we'd expect a AT-AT to easily ward off such a large force exerted on it. Particularily since I've pointed out more than once it has a high centre of gravity and a large upper surface area to have force exerted on.

But I'm not going to concede the arguement based upon the fact I cannot produce calcs to conclusively show the AT-AT would be toppled over. I can't produce calcs "proving" a glass plate dropped off a 2 story building will shatter either, therefore by some people's logic here, I'm not qualified to suggest it would shatter.

Walper, the units of force are newtons. The units of torque are newton-meters. The weight of an AT-AT is in newtons. The height of the CG above the ground is in meters.

Fuck "I'm not well enough versed in physics". If you'd even LOOK AT THE UNITS, you could DERIVE the equations you need in SECONDS. We're talking MULTIPLICATION, you ass. You are by far the most brain-dead retard that Mike bothers to put up with, and frankly I'm amazed you haven't left this board in disgrace. Actually, I'm amazed that you haven't accidently killed yourself with a low-quality can-opener, the only kind one could afford when one cannot pass a junior-high-level math or science course. Do the gene pool a favor and eat a fucking gun, the rest of us are tired of your sad attempts at thought.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-22 02:39am

Howedar wrote:I see you're too fucking stupid to read what I actually read. I never contested that an AT-AT might or might not be susceptible to toppling by shockwaves. Obviously a shockwave of sufficient magnitude would tip an AT-AT over. What you said is that an AT-AT is vulnerable to tipping soley due to the fact that one without its head fell over. I demonstrated this argument to be logically and factually unsound, at which point you strawman my arguments.

Alright, my mistake. I apologize for that.

Walper, the units of force are newtons. The units of torque are newton-meters. The weight of an AT-AT is in newtons. The height of the CG above the ground is in meters.

Familar terminology, but applying it is where I fail. You seem to be under the false impression everyone must have been riveted during science/physics courses in high school, especially those who knew they had no interest in such fields. I recall and understand some science I learned, simplistic things likes A^2 + B^2 = C^2, or water displacement formulas. I just have no general use for them in life.

Fuck "I'm not well enough versed in physics". If you'd even LOOK AT THE UNITS, you could DERIVE the equations you need in SECONDS.

That's funny. You claim this calculation is so easy that even a idiot could calculate it in seconds, but I haven't yet seen anyone produce one. I guess we're all idiots, aren't we? I'm honestly not sure of all the variables needed to figure this out. Height of the AT-AT, CG as you mentioned, force over it's surface area, nuclear yields, blast wave velocity, etc...those I'm fairly certain are needed. Throwing them together into a proper formula that yields a true/false answer is currently beyond me.

We're talking MULTIPLICATION, you ass.

Yes, multiplication is easy. Explain how yelling about this obvious note is helping someone understand the mathematical formula that would indicate how much force would be required to knock over a AT-AT. Oh wait, right. We're not here to educate others, you're here to poke fun at those who don't possess your personal education and experience level so you can feel better about yourself. Forgot about that pesky site motto. Certainly sheds light on your character though. I'll keep it mind.

You are by far the most brain-dead retard that Mike bothers to put up with, and frankly I'm amazed you haven't left this board in disgrace. Actually, I'm amazed that you haven't accidently killed yourself with a low-quality can-opener, the only kind one could afford when one cannot pass a junior-high-level math or science course. Do the gene pool a favor and eat a fucking gun, the rest of us are tired of your sad attempts at thought.

Well, you can rest assured you've made it abundantly obvious there's no point in me trying to discuss anything with you. You can rest easy I won't bother you with any of my moronic viewpoints or replies from this point on.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-12-22 03:06pm

LOOK UP THE FORMULAS, JACKASS.

You mistake your "I should have failed High School" knowledge base for "No one wants to do your homework for you."

Its the latter. Most people on here are not so lazy, incompetent, or stupid to have failed High School or be unable to look up the formulas online. That would be you.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-12-22 03:18pm

Robert Walper wrote: Never mind be hit by such force unexpectedly.

Why would it be unexpetced? The AT-ATs are over 20km away from the base. Even if the delivery system for the nuke is hypersonic, the AT-AT will still have at least 10 seconds to prepare itself, since they can see what's going on 17.28km away. That's plenty of time for the AT-AT to widen their stance and lower their CG, or even attempt to shoot the delivery system down.

By the way, Walper, here are the nescesary figures. You'll have to look up the equations, yourself.
AT-AT overbalancing torque:
2.45E7Nm
AT-AT overblancing impulse/momentum:
1.1E7Ns
Density of air:
1.25kg/m^3
Speed of sound in air:
320m/s IIRC
Approximate surface area of AT-AT's side:
100m²

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-12-22 04:17pm

Not to mention the EU says AT-ATs can kneel. This would GREATLY increase survivability.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-12-22 10:23pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Not to mention the EU says AT-ATs can kneel. This would GREATLY increase survivability.

Indeed. It would take about three times as much torque (7.75E7Nm) and twice the impulse (1.965E7Ns) to tip the AT-AT if it were to lower its CG to 3 metres as described in the guides.

When you think about it, this machine is virtually invincible.