What role did the B-Wing serve?

[Butterbean569]

I've been playing Jump to Lightspeed, and I just reached Master Alliance Pilot and got my very own B-Wing. Now, on the SWG forums, some people are calling for an upgrade in its manuverability. They say that it should be more manuverable than a Y-Wing, even though it is more massive and carries more weapons.

From everything I've ever heard about the B-Wing, it's supposed to be a very heavy bomber that requires a massive snubfighter escort in order to suceed. It's a one-man Capital Ship killer as long as it isn't picked apart by TIEs. They, on the other hand, say that the B-Wing was a total replacement for the Y-Wing, and that it became faster to deal with fighters, and more heavily armed to deal with cap ships.

So, which is it? Are B-Wings slower than Y-Wings? Or are they advanced enough to have more firepower *and* more manuverability? Quotes from any sources would be appreciated...I don't have any of my books with me now (they're up at school), so I can't really research through them for proof on my position.

[Sharpshooter]

From all the depictions and books I've seen and read, they were basically designed as heavy assault fighters with the mission profiles of capital ship killing and capture and attacking orbital and ground installations. They were also, according to the NEGTV&V, designed with profiles of escorting X and Y-Wing fighter squadrons (which, given the statistical data available, makes no sense, as it is more of the type to be escorted itself.)

The Guide listed them as being the slowest of Rebel/New Republic fighters, at a measly 2,390 G's of space-borne acceleration, compared to something around 2,700 for Y-Wings and higher for X's and A's, while the games, as much as they are non-canon, listed them as being slightly faster than Y-Wings, IIRC. As for its role, I believe it was generally to replace the Y-Wing outright, given their (supposedly) lesser capabilities in comparison with the next-gen fighter.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

The Guide listed them as being the slowest of Rebel/New Republic fighters, at a measly 2,390 G's of space-borne acceleration, compared to something around 2,700 for Y-Wings and higher for X's and A's,

There's a source that actually listed their acceleration in meaningful units rather than speed with meaningless units like MGLTs?

And did you notice how they would never catch an Acclamator transport with these stats? By inference, a dedicated destroyer could dodge B-Wings all day and never be attacked.

[The Original Nex]

There's a source that actually listed their acceleration in meaningful units rather than speed with meaningless units like MGLTs?

The NEGtV&V yes.

And did you notice how they would never catch an Acclamator transport with these stats? By inference, a dedicated destroyer could dodge B-Wings all day and never be attacked.

Yep, horrible stats. You can tell which one's Saxton did because they're about a place-holder larger....

It's like someone forgot a zero for all the fighters.....

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Cool. For the record, what other accelerations are listed?'

And while they are too low, they are still a huge advance over the old days. I thought he'd write 1G, max speed 300m/s, TIE Fighter game style

[The Original Nex]

Cool. For the record, what other accelerations are listed?

I could give you some if you really want 'em, but I'm willing to bet most of them would be wrong....

[The Original Nex]

Correction, it seems it's the Atmospheric Speeds (given in kph) in which Blackman forgot a Zero, the Accellerations seem fine, here's a list of the fighters, the NEG Atmospheric Speed, and the what the speed should be going by Saxton's numbers for fighters:

A-Wing
NEGVV:1300kph
Actual: 13,000kph

B-wing
NEGVV: 950kph
Actual: 9500kph

Chiss Clawcraft
NEGVV: 1000kph
Actual: 10,000kph

Cloakshape
NEGVV: 950
Actual: 9500

Cloud Car
NEGVV: 1500
Actual: 15,000

Coralskipper
NEGVV: 400
Actual: 4000

Droid Starfighter
NEGVV: 1180
Actual: 11,800

E-wing
NEGVV: 1300
Actual: 13,000

Geonosian Starfighter
Actual: 20,000 They got the number from Saxton, so they got it right!!

Howlrunner
NEGVV: 1300
Actual: 13000

IG-2000
NEGVV: 1200
Actual: 12,000

Jedi Starfighter
12,000
Got this one from Saxton too. Yipeee!!

[President Sharky]

Could you list the acceleration stats too please? I would like to see how skewed his stats are for these. I would bet that he simply pulled numbers out of his ass for these.

[Butterbean569]

Snip

Do you have the X-Wing and Y-Wing figures? This would be great proof to the guys I'm debating against. I finally got them to admit that books and tech manuals are a higher form of canon than games. That took awhile....lol

[Alan Bolte]

There was a thread recently at XWAU which briefly went into the issue of the B-Wing, here's some relevant discussion, heavily snipped:

As I recall, the WEG sourcebook that fleshed out the B-wing's history placed Project Shantipole either during or AFTER ESB (when the B-wing was developed). Obviously you can't have B-wings before Project Shantipole.

As for the B-wing's role I totally don't buy the "frigate killer" bullshit. Studying the effects model, the B-wing is more of a gunship than a bomber (while there IS physical evidence of a single torpedo tube in the pods above the engine block, there is NO PHYSICAL LAUNCHER OF ANY TYPE LOCATED IN THE MAIN WING WEAPON'S POD!)

Saxman, I agree about the B-wing not being a frigate killer. I interpret the quote about it being designed to counter frigates is saying that the Y-wing was too slow or ineffective to use around Frigates. I think the B-wing was likely faster, better armed, designed to take on convoys faster, without getting themselves killed by the escort frigates

Incidentally, the speed charts used by the production team at ILM for RotJ makes the B-wing SLOWER than the Y-wing (75 MGLT vs 100, as fast as the X-wing!) Even by that level of canonicity, because this came direct from information used for filming AND the fact it predates WEG, it overrides the all subsequent sources.

The B-wing is a slug with all the maneuverability of an anvil dropped off a cliff.

But with a lot of guns on it! 3 lasers + 3 ions is a heavier complement of weapons than any other movie fighter before we even get to the missile launchers.

The B-Wing is slow, tough, heavily armed but not too manauverable. This leads me to think that it should be used in a heavy strike role but only against targets that either; have no anti-fighter defenses or are targets that it would be impractical/impossible to attack with a capital ship.

Transports and cargo ships would seem to be the best targets for the B-Wing rather than that efficient anti-fighter weapon, the Nebulon B. For taking out Nebs I would reckomend a fast strike fighter like the X-Wing or even better the Tandem X.

Oops. I forgot about that speed chart. Thanks Saxman for reminding me. I remember that now. It puts the X-wing and Tie at the same manuever and speed as well IIRC

But are the ANH Battle of Yavin Y-Wings 'off the shelf' models, or custom jobs?
I seem to recall Lucas likening the Rebel Starfighters to the hot-rods he loved as a youth in California. Perhaps the production model of the B-wing is superior to the standard Y-wing.

The Y-wings at Yavin and in the Rebelfleet appear to be well used, especially since they are reputed to have originally come with sleek exterior plating (Rebel Y-wings have only the Fuselage plating left)
Upgrades are possible, but I would think that the Rebel Y-wings would be in worse shape than a standard one.

Would removal of the sleek exterior plating result in a greater max MGLT due to the reduced weight?

That depends on how much the mass of the plating was, whether other modifications added to the weight, and what conditions the engines are in.
The removal of hull plating on the Y-wing was originally for ease of access by mechanics, not to increase speed. It is a possibility.

It may also depend on the version of Y-wing. The single seater and dual cockpit versions are almost certainly different masses.

The B-wing's armament in XWA is ALSO wrong.
The effects model has four cannon in the nose, one in the tip of each small wing and two in the main wing spar. They type of cannon are unknown as far as film evidence, however in a recent study of the model I did I'm doubtful the ship has ANY ion cannon, (per WEG) and that these guns are all some type of laser.

I should note here that I can't see where he ever explained this statement. Anyone know how an ion cannon looks different from a laser?

I thought the two cannons on the B-Wing's cockpit were like autoblasters or something like that, weaker than normal laser cannons.

There's four of them, and it's WEG that says they're only "auto-blasters." I haven't tried an exact measurement of them but from looks it's possible they MAY be at LEAST as large as the A-wing's laser cannon.

<images>
From a quick comparason, the guns in the B-wings chin appear to be 1/4 the width of the pilots helmet, while the barrels of the A-wing cannons look to be about 1/4 to 1/3 the width of the A-wing pilot helmet. Anyone know how wide the A-wing helmet is to the Standard Rebel helmet? If the A-wing helmet was about 20% thinner than the standard helmet I think the two barrels would match up very well (disregarding the flash suppressors)
<images>
A better angle to see the width of the pilot helmet. The gun barrel still looks to be within 25-33% the width of the helmet.
<images>
Again, rough estimates, but the A-wing helmet looks to be at max width 160% the distance between the outside of each eye.

Normal helmet looks to be about at max width 270% distance between outside of each eye.

Simple math puts the A-wing helmet at around 60% the width of the normal helmet, so an A-wing cannon about 1/3 the width of the A-wing helmet is about equivalent to 1/5 the width of a normal helmet. The B-wing barrel looked to be about 1/4 the width of a normal helmet

Given how rough these numbers are, I'd put the margin of error at about 20%. But it seemssafe to say that the two barrels are very close to the same size.

For more accuracy, there is the option to picture measurement, but I am not going to do that for now.

Proportionately, the nose guns of the B-wing and the cannon on the A-wing appear to be VERY similar in size. The major difference is that the A-wing's guns are entirely external while a LARGE portion of the B-wing's nose cannon are enclosed within the cockpit pod. Given the size of the guns it's pretty likely these are full laser cannon, not dinky little blasters (which blasters on a gunship don't make sense, anyway!)
Interestingly enough, from that picture it looks like there's NOWHERE between the pods above the engine block for a torpedo launcher to fit.

The more I look at it, the more I start to quesion the sanity of the B-wing design team in having the cockpit rotation. Beyond shifting the weapons to a centerpoint below the cockpit, there is no real value. And it would seem that having to compensate for the guns being 15 meters to the right of the cockpit would be no different than having to compensate for the guns being 15 meters below the cockpit.

well, first it was designed by Mon Cals so I don't think Humans were the first ones in mind to pilot those things. As far as a rotational, you get better parralax with your eyes if they are centered below or above you, then to the far left or right.

I don't like the B-Wing. It's too slow, not manueverable enough, and too big a target. Who cares if it has 9 Laser Cannons or whatever if you get vaporized really quickly? I guess the gyroscopic cockpit is supposed to help that... Anyway, the B-Wing is like the slowest, least manueverable craft in Rebel Strike, just like in the movies. It's a complete pain to use.

As for the B-Wing, I'm also having some problems with it. Part of the problem is that the shape of the thing makes judging perspective difficult.

From the reference pics of from starshipmodeler.com, there appear to be a total of five cylinders under the cockpit nose. The two longest are equidistant from the centerline of the cockpit and at the same height. These two appear to be hollow and have colored tips. Two more are substantially shorter, of slightly different lengths, and set below the port cylinder. The fifth appears to be the shortest by a small margin and set well to starboard. I'm almost certain the longest two are weapons, with the others it's hard to be so sure.

Heading along the spine, I also see no aperture between the pods; I suppose some sort of door is possible but none of the other craft bother with such things. Also, are the pits with something sticking out of them part of the wing mechanism or unrelated?

The wingtip cannons themselves are composed of a very large cylinder and a smaller cylinder, this much is obvious. Some of these smaller cylinders are often referenced as targetting sensors, I suppose that's pretty reasonable. It might be a good idea to scale these weapons in comparison with those of an X-Wing, a much faster and more agile fighter.

In the gunpod I see four cylinders, a big odd-looking block, and a bunch of wiring. I see that the longest of these is of similar length to the wingtip cannons, but of a much different style. The thin cylinder connected to it runs almost all of its length, unlike the smaller cylinders in the wings. The third is slightly thicker and much shorter than the first and has an interesting shape at its tip. The fourth is connected to the thired and is short enough to be completely internal. There seems to be enough wiring that any sort of torpedo that is housed in the pod must exit from one of those cylinders, though none of them is hollow. OTOH, the model is clearly not made to stand up to such close scrutiney.

Indeed, if any warhead launchers are present, I think it more likely that they are in the three slots running along the front of the main wing.

[Cal Wright]

In at least every game source I've played the B-Wing was supposed to be a bit faster then the Y-Wing, plus more powerful. Either way, I'm glad to know all the Rebel players are still pissing and moaning of how much they don't have.

[Illuminatus Primus]

ILM's internal charts (unknown possible canon authority) placed the original X-Wing, original Y-Wing, and original TIE all at the same agility. The B-Wing was significantly slower, though. (The TIE Interceptor was more agile than all, and the A-Wing even more so.)

The EU has decided that the A-Wing is faster but less manuverable than the TIE Interceptor, that the B-Wing is both faster and more manuverable than the Y-Wing, but less so than the X-Wing.

[Alan Bolte]

The EU has decided that the A-Wing is faster but less manuverable than the TIE Interceptor, that the B-Wing is both faster and more manuverable than the Y-Wing, but less so than the X-Wing.

Most likely due to the tendency to think in terms of modern day tech advancement rather than something that actually makes sense.

Clearly, in this instance we have G-level/C-level difference, and I think with this new cannon policy the fact that it's an internal note rather than part of the movie itself is actually somewhat irrelevant. The only potential way of establishing that the B-Wing is faster and more maneuverable than the Y-Wing is to find a definitive example in ROTJ or a statement from LFL, but I don't think you're going to find either.

[Alan Bolte]

Also, for acceleration values, they might just not be shit. Keep in mind that these are 'all power to engines, straight-ahead' values, not necessarily normal combat or space-flight values, nor entirely indicative of maneuverability, so the fact that they're all in the right order of magnitude should be a good sign. I don't recall the source, but I believe it's been said that Boba Fett's upgraded Slave I was as fast as a Y-Wing, and Jango's less-upgraded Slave I has an ICS-listed accel of 2500 Gs.

[Vympel]

Personally I want to know how the hell the EU got so many proton torpedoes into that thing. There's no way you could fit torpedoes on it at all, not unless it's engines were fricking tiny.

[Lord Pounder]

The Eu got the whole B-Wing thing pertty fucked upfrom day one. In one of the X-Wing Books one of Defender Wings Squads gets B-Wings and the come in late and turn a groupof TIE's into scrap and yet a few X-Wing books later Alliston has them as easy pray against TIE's but blowing the shit outta a SSD's engines. The K-Wing struck me as a better ship for taking chunks of a capital ship.

[Crazedwraith]

The Eu got the whole B-Wing thing pertty fucked upfrom day one. In one of the X-Wing Books one of Defender Wings Squads gets B-Wings and the come in late and turn a groupof TIE's into scrap and yet a few X-Wing books later Alliston has them as easy pray against TIE's but blowing the shit outta a SSD's engines. The K-Wing struck me as a better ship for taking chunks of a capital ship.

It's alot easier to take out TIE's with sheer power in an Ambush, than to blast them in a dogfight.

In Krytos Trap, Guardian Sqaud, catches the TIEs completely flat footed.
You'd be easy to vape to if you were fixing on some wishbones and then a squad of crosses jumps in at point blank.

not to mention they still show a sharp improvement over Y-Wings. In Krytos trap the B-Wings bag an entire squadron of Squints (out of one squad that was there) with their ambush. In Rogue Squadron, the entire defender wing similar ambushes two squads of Squints and only manges to bag six.

[Stark]

The EU B-wing is an affront to common sense. It's got ... what... a dozen torps? And its some planks, a seat and an engine?

[Rogue 9]

I've been told that this image was for an official LFL promotion of some sort. Not sure if that's correct or not. Take it as you will.

[Darth Bowser]

Would it be wrong to consider it a sort of A10 of the Star Wars world?

[President Sharky]

I'm pretty sure that image is from the deleted scene from ROTJ where they destroy the communications ship, the Avenger.

[Vympel]

I'm pretty sure that image is from the deleted scene from ROTJ where they destroy the communications ship, the Avenger.

The Avenger is the classic Imperator II, not a "Communications Ship". It was Needa's vessel in TESB.

Anyway, that is a deleted scene. Unfortunately, the B-Wings didn't figure prominently at Endor like they were meant to because their design didn't show up well on screen.

[Stark]

I thought it was cost or something; they were definately planned to have a higher profile than they ended up with... since they showed up, and thats about it Kewl helmets, though.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I'm so sick of those TFN lemmings bitching that Decipher says HIMS Avenger is the communications ship. What morons. The ROTJ novelisation is obviously higher canon than the Decipher TCG and specifically states that the communications ship is larger than the other Star Destroyers. The Avenger is one of the "other star destroyers" and therefore this is in direct contradiction. The novelisation wins out.

[Coyote]

I had been under the impression that the Y-wing was being phased out, considered old, weak, etc... if the B-Wing is not it's replacement, what is the Rebel/Republic "bomber" then?

I always saw the B-Wing as the "A-10" of Star wars, while the Y-Wing was sort of the "TBM Avenger". The only fighter I ever saw dropping "gravity" style "bombs" was the TIE Bomber.