Kwanzaa - Another example of racial seperation?

Post by **Coyote** » 2004-12-28 07:03am

People have forgotten the great word Honky. It was a 1960's and 70's term used by the Blacks to call Whites. It was the "bad word" to use before "Cracker" or "White Trash" became the norm.

I think the word fell out of favor when it was found that people were more amused by it than offended.

"Honky"... heeheehee....

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2004-12-28 08:25am

Well, I for one am completely prepared to embrace my honkyness.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2004-12-28 03:04pm

What up, my honky?

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-12-28 05:36pm

I am Maximus Schmidt! Celebrate with me, my honkies! We have been oppressed by affirmative action for too long! Let us light the Gwindlehopper, and begin the Airing of Grievances!

Oh wait, the Airing of Grievances is already in HoS, under a different name. Still, no one has pinned me yet, so Festikwanzahanuleashtoramadyulesticenaliamas rolls on!

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-12-29 11:42am

I should also mention that Daniel |<L1>< is my American name, and, in the spirit of the season in which I celebrate my european heritage, I will now be known as Gerhardt Kelsheimer-O'leary.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-12-29 09:36pm

If I remember correctly, the holiday was fabricated by a communist professor (from Temple university) during the 60s or 70s.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-29 10:45pm

If I, an Irish-American, get St. Patrick's, I have no problem with any other group getting a holiday to celebrate their uniqueness. The Italians get Columbus Day, the Chinese get Chinese New Year, the Mexicans get Cinquo de Mayo ..... heck there's probably a Bolivian Independence Day I don't know about ...... what's the big deal?

We're all in the same frickin' boat on Tax Day.

Mutant Headcrab · Post by **Mutant Headcrab** » 2004-12-29 11:04pm

Chmee wrote:If I, an Irish-American, get St. Patrick's, I have no problem with any other group getting a holiday to celebrate their uniqueness. The Italians get Columbus Day, the Chinese get Chinese New Year, the Mexicans get Cinquo de Mayo ..... heck there's probably a Bolivian Independence Day I don't know about ...... what's the big deal?

We're all in the same frickin' boat on Tax Day.

The problem is, while St. Patrick's is an Irish holiday, it doesn't alienate non-Irish from celebrating it. Everybody likes St. Patricks, Columbus Day, and Cinquo de Mayo. They all also have some past significance either historically or mythically.

Kwanzaa is most definately not inclusive. That could be forgiven if it had legitimately religious, historical, or mythological origions, but it doesn't. Everything about it is amalgameted BS that merely serves as a self-imposed segregation of African Americans from everyone else.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2004-12-29 11:07pm

White people should start celebrating it; when the black isolationists see that nonblacks don't care about their self-imposed isolation is being ignored in favour of integrating it into the larger multicultural mess, they'll abandon it out of it becoming "impure and unblack". Besides, I dare them to name one human alive today that doesn't have a black ancestor.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-12-29 11:16pm

Rye wrote:White people should start celebrating it; when the black isolationists see that non blacks don't care about their self-imposed isolation is being ignored in favor of integrating it into the larger multi cultural mess, they'll abandon it out of it becoming "impure and unblack". Besides, I dare them to name one human alive today that doesn't have a black ancestor.

To that I say right on my brotha! We need to break this indoctrination, of isolation, via our participation, so that the black nation, embraces integration, gets an education, cuts down on the incarceration, and though shear intrepidation, become equals among the population.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-29 11:31pm

Mutant Headcrab wrote:
Chmee wrote:If I, an Irish-American, get St. Patrick's, I have no problem with any other group getting a holiday to celebrate their uniqueness. The Italians get Columbus Day, the Chinese get Chinese New Year, the Mexicans get Cinquo de Mayo ..... heck there's probably a Bolivian Independence Day I don't know about ...... what's the big deal?

We're all in the same frickin' boat on Tax Day.
The problem is, while St. Patrick's is an Irish holiday, it doesn't alienate non-Irish from celebrating it. Everybody likes St. Patricks, Columbus Day, and Cinquo de Mayo. They all also have some past significance either historically or mythically.

Kwanzaa is most definately not inclusive. That could be forgiven if it had legitimately religious, historical, or mythological origions, but it doesn't. Everything about it is amalgameted BS that merely serves as a self-imposed segregation of African Americans from everyone else.

Valentine's Day is completely made up by greeting card companies and excludes everybody who doesn't have a significant other. I demand an end to Valentine's Day!

Celebrating your own heritage isn't 'self-imposed segregation' ... everybody celebrates their unique heritage in some way, and there's no reason for everybody else to share in it. You feel excluded because gentiles don't get to celebrate Passover? All holidays are made-up bullshit, it's just a question of when they made up the bullshit.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-12-29 11:39pm

Funny they spent years fighting for desegregation and equal rights,and the segregate themselves

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-29 11:58pm

Montcalm wrote:Funny they spent years fighting for desegregation and equal rights,and the segregate themselves

I guess it might be funny if that's what it was ... only people determined to define it that way see it that way. How is pride in your identity segregation? Am I somehow less American for being Irish-American and proud of that?

If so, then everybody who isn't NATIVE American has to just stfu about their background, I guess.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-30 01:09am

Yes, but do you celebrate any of these holidays because the color of your skin?

Last I remember neither Valentine's day nor St Patrick's were about whether I was White, Black or hispanic.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-30 01:16am

Ghost Rider wrote:Yes, but do you celebrate any of these holidays because the color of your skin?

Last I remember neither Valentine's day nor St Patrick's were about whether I was White, Black or hispanic.

I celebrate it 'cause I'm a Celt, that's just as distinct as being an African ... Serbs and Persians are 'white' but they ain't celebrating St. Pat's any time soon, they're not the right ethnicity.

Chinese New Year, Cinquo de Mayo ..... ain't a whole herd of Serbs celebrating those, either.

You're looking for differences 'cause you want to see them. They don't exist. African Americans have a unique heritage which, as an Irishman, I can sympathize with a little ... my ancestors got shipped around the planet by a bunch of superior-feeling British assholes, too ... we were just as 'inferior' to the Brits until they got around to colonizing Africa and finding a new group to feel inherently superior to.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-30 01:21am

Chmee wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Yes, but do you celebrate any of these holidays because the color of your skin?

Last I remember neither Valentine's day nor St Patrick's were about whether I was White, Black or hispanic.
I celebrate it 'cause I'm a Celt, that's just as distinct as being an African ... Serbs and Persians are 'white' but they ain't celebrating St. Pat's any time soon, they're not the right ethnicity.

Chinese New Year, Cinquo de Mayo ..... ain't a whole herd of Serbs celebrating those, either.

You're looking for differences 'cause you want to see them. They don't exist. African Americans have a unique heritage which, as an Irishman, I can sympathize with a little ... my ancestors got shipped around the planet by a bunch of superior-feeling British assholes, too ... we were just as 'inferior' to the Brits until they got around to colonizing Africa and finding a new group to feel inherently superior to.

You didn't answer the question and side stepped it completely.

I asked do you celebrate or does anyone celebrate that because of their skin color.

Not because of your heritage, thus either answer or stop doing this dance that Kwanzaa is just yet another holiday, or prove that people celebrate all these other holiday because they are white, green or blue.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-30 01:26am

Ghost Rider wrote:
Chmee wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Yes, but do you celebrate any of these holidays because the color of your skin?

Last I remember neither Valentine's day nor St Patrick's were about whether I was White, Black or hispanic.
I celebrate it 'cause I'm a Celt, that's just as distinct as being an African ... Serbs and Persians are 'white' but they ain't celebrating St. Pat's any time soon, they're not the right ethnicity.

Chinese New Year, Cinquo de Mayo ..... ain't a whole herd of Serbs celebrating those, either.

You're looking for differences 'cause you want to see them. They don't exist. African Americans have a unique heritage which, as an Irishman, I can sympathize with a little ... my ancestors got shipped around the planet by a bunch of superior-feeling British assholes, too ... we were just as 'inferior' to the Brits until they got around to colonizing Africa and finding a new group to feel inherently superior to.
You didn't answer the question and side stepped it completely.

I asked do you celebrate or does anyone celebrate that because of their skin color.

Not because of your heritage, thus either answer or stop doing this dance that Kwanzaa is just yet another holiday, or prove that people celebrate all these other holiday because they are white, green or blue.

Well, I did answer it, but not in a way you understood ... I'll try again, although I'm skeptical you'll get it.

African Americans shared heritage is inextricably linked to skin color, which makes it unique ... what they share is that all of them, somewhere back in time, had a relative that some asshole snatched from Africa, stuffed onto a slave ship, and *survived* the Middle Passage to reach this continent.

Now, for the Irish or Greeks or Italians or Chinese, our shared experience is more nationalist, as part of a wave of emigration to this country. For African Americans, it's less nationalistic and more trans-national (within Africa). Should they ignore that shared heritage because you don't understand it? Should they not celebrate all having survived all that bullshit because you find it stand-offish?

You want real hardcore separatism, go over to the Balkans and see people celebrating the fricking Siege of Belgrade six hundred years later, and still dividing Serbs and Croats because of that shit. Now *that* is separation.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-30 01:29am

Ah, and look, the new kid goes for insult because he can't answer yes or no on ONE question.

So, I'll ask again and slowly.

Do you celebrate holidays on basis of skin color?

Because really, bringing up "The shared slavery means that they can celebrate a holiday that they made up for their skin!" is no different then making up a holiday for all the Jews because they survived the Holocaust.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-30 01:31am

Well, sometimes skepticism is justified, isn't it?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-30 01:36am

Chmee wrote:Well, sometimes skepticism is justified, isn't it?

Then you can answer the simple question and prove that you understand that celebrating St Patricks day has nothing to do with being a black celt or white celt. But celebrating Kwanzaa is specfially going "I'm a black american!"

But hey if you can't answer yes or no...everyone will witness who's the dipshit idiot, won't they?

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-30 01:43am

Ghost Rider wrote:
Chmee wrote:Well, sometimes skepticism is justified, isn't it?
Then you can answer the simple question and prove that you understand that celebrating St Patricks day has nothing to do with being a black celt or white celt. But celebrating Kwanzaa is specfially going "I'm a black american!"

But hey if you can't answer yes or no...everyone will witness who's the dipshit idiot, won't they?

Usually the person whose intellect fails them and falls back on name-calling. Kind of disappointing in a mod.

By the way, do you really not know that there *are* Jewish holidays celebrating specific historic events?

I thought I was being quite clear by referencing ethnicity ... your absolutist focus on skin color seems to blind you to this reference. You think all whites see themselves as the same? I know some Aryans don't. Plenty of holidays celebrate ethnicity, and it's the same thing you seem to be obsessing over -- separating one group from another based on heritage. Yeah, sometimes this is reflected in skin tone, sometimes it's not. You seem to make a very big deal about one particular group celebrating one particular ethnicity, and yeah, I fail to see how the artificial distinctions you lean on to make this big deal out of it can stand up to any rational analysis.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-30 01:45am

Ah so answer the question and stop spewing a numerous fallacy and dodging that you're commiting.

Because last I remembered, it doesn't matter what your skin color is to celebrate most holidays.

Also just as note...you're committing an ad hominem and moving the goalposts, but if you want to rack up strawmanning and red herrings, be my guest.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-30 01:46am

Somewhere in there was an actual sentence, yearning to be free.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-30 01:53am

Chmee wrote:Somewhere in there was an actual sentence, yearning to be free.

Ah, look because the poster can't answer...I guess you concede.

It's not so hard, because so far you couldn't answer the simple question posed that it has nothing to do with heritage in that Kwanzaa specically calls for you to be a Black American. Not just simply Black or just simply American, but that you have to be a subsect of a subsect.

And you strawmanned with Valentine's Day...last I remembered I just have to be human, which all holidays were made up for.

Passover and hell all the Jewish holidays...damn I have to worship a religon...just as if I was Hindu and I didn't celebrate Christmas?!

Damn...does any religon state I have to be a specific color AND from a specific place or do I just have to follow their ideas of a sky pixie?

So you basically were using a Slippery slope as well.

Want to keep up with the litany?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-12-30 10:15am

Bullshit Ghost Rider, and you know it. St. Patrick's day is about being Irish. Here's a clue since you don't have one: When people talk about the "Black Irish", they mean whites with dark hair. There aren't any Irish negroes, dummy. So St. Patrick's is about being white because the Irish are white.

Kwanzaa might have been made up by a black American radical with bogus African trappings, but there's nothing to prevent any white person (or anyone else) who wants to celebrate it from doing so. So like St. Patrick's Day, it's only separatist if people make it that way. It isn't racist just because whites want no part of it, any more than Grambling is a racist college because it's all black: Whites don't want to go there except to watch football.