Jedi and Police Powers

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-12-30 02:18pm

In AOTC Anakin and Obi Wan accost the assassin that tries to kill Padme. When the bar patrons try to intervene Anakin snaps "Jedi Business" and they drag her out. No one says or does anything to intervene. Now this may have been covered elsewhere but out of curiosity just what are the Jedi's police powers in the Repuiblic? Are they official police officers? Are they independent contractors that are answerable to the government? Are they even considered part of the government at all? Where do the Jedi fit in and what can and can't they do?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-12-30 02:29pm

Well, if you were a guy in a bar, would YOU try to argue with a guy holding a lightsaber that has force powers?

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2004-12-30 05:09pm

It's an interesting question that I've pondered myself. Are they officially a law enforcement arm of the Republic? If so, one would figure that they would fall under some form of Senatorial oversight, but they don't seem to.

So are they relegated to some form of comic book superhero legal capacities, where they catch the big villains and turn them over to regular law enforcement, under what would essentially amount to a citizen's arrest?

I can't think of any EU depictions that really clear this up. Anybody else?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-30 05:19pm

I'd say they have some powers simply beyond what citizens give them. IN AOTC Anakin gave the idea that simply guarding was something that Jedi had some experience in(even if he thought it was below their station) and while in Padme's presense he gave the idea that they extend to powers to apprehension. While he was likely making his feathers feel bigger, Typho nor Obi Wan went and outright said Jedi do no such thing.

In fact once they were on the pursuit course, they assigned Obi Wan to this job. Which that alone said something that they do have some sort of police powers.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-12-30 05:50pm

Well, the Jedi act as ambassadors to the Chancellor and report to him/her. That would imply an executive authority rather than a Congressional one.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-12-30 05:51pm

Windu says it himself. They are keepers of the peace. Their (partial) function as police is clearly known and accepted. Whether it's actually codified, I have no idea.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2004-12-30 06:10pm

Knife wrote:Well, the Jedi act as ambassadors to the Chancellor and report to him/her. That would imply an executive authority rather than a Congressional one.

Good point, thanks.

Howedar wrote:Windu says it himself. They are keepers of the peace. Their (partial) function as police is clearly known and accepted. Whether it's actually codified, I have no idea.

That's what I'm really curious about. Because it fits very well into the formula that Palps turns the Republic against the Jedi if they're technically an extra-legal group of vigilantes with no governmental oversight.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-12-30 06:28pm

IIRC, in one of the books it was said that authority-wise, the Jedi were a subset of the Judicial Department.

Ninja of the North · Post by **Ninja of the North** » 2004-12-30 07:37pm

IMHO, the Jedi seem to be rather self governing, but also seem to take the word of the chancelor as almost an order. For example:

-Obi Wan and Qui Gon follow the command of the chancelor to become "ambasadors" to the Trade Federation.

-Anakin is ordered to guard Padme by Palpatine.

-Despite this, the Jedi storm Geonosis, apparently without the consent of the Senate or the Chancelor.

I think the super hero analogy is rather apporpriate.

Note: The previous comment was made by a noob. Please dont flame me too bad

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-30 07:40pm

They sort of sound like a Super Secret Service .... broad jurisdiction within matters affecting Republic security, powerful enough that even if local law enforcement doubts whether they *really* have jurisdiction over a matter by the letter of the law, it's way more trouble than it's worth to question them about it.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-12-30 08:30pm

Given the Jedi powers and the fact the are considered the "guardians of the Republic" i can't see them getting too many juristiction grievances from local cops.

I'd like to see the police force that trys to hit them with that.

Local Doughnut Muncher - Sorry mack this isn't your jurisdiction

Jedi - You are mistaken this is my juristiction *waves hand*

LDM - I am mistaken, this is your jurisdiction.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-12-30 11:21pm

As someone already said, the Jedi are part of the Judiciary Department, the para-military police force of the GR.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-12-31 12:31am

Originally, the Jedi were designed to serve a function similar to US Marshalls, but with a bit of samurai influence.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2004-12-31 01:22am

Really, it's quite amazing that the Jedi have managed to hold on to such freedom to operate. When you think back to such events as the Sith Wars, you'd think that any sane government would try to keep closer tabs on them. After all, it is a proven fact that they can be corrupted, and that corruption has led to wars that engulfed the entire galaxy.

Edit- Or the entire Republic, anyway. The Chiss sat around and roasted marshmellows the whole time, of course.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-12-31 01:24am

Petrosjko wrote:Really, it's quite amazing that the Jedi have managed to hold on to such freedom to operate. When you think back to such events as the Sith Wars, you'd think that any sane government would try to keep closer tabs on them. After all, it is a proven fact that they can be corrupted, and that corruption has led to wars that engulfed the entire galaxy.

Edit- Or the entire Republic, anyway. The Chiss sat around and roasted marshmellows the whole time, of course.

Perhaps that's why they're so centralized now on Courscant. Pure speculation, but maybe the Jedi Council are hostage to the Republic for a safe guard.

*shrug*

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2004-12-31 01:38am

Knife wrote:Perhaps that's why they're so centralized now on Courscant. Pure speculation, but maybe the Jedi Council are hostage to the Republic for a safe guard.

*shrug*

Interesting notion.

I really wish they hadn't retconned the whole 'Jedi do not marry' thing into the Sith War era in KotoR, because they have a springboard to work with on how profoundly the Sith Wars changed Jedi society and their relations with the government by examining the post-war era. Essentially, the government demands that the Jedi locate their base of operations on Coruscant, and exercises some form of direct oversight for a while until inevitably the direct memories of the war fade and the Jedi get to go about their merry way.

More realistically I'd think that something like Psi Corps from B5 would be the result, but meh.

"The Jedi Knights are the Guardians of peace and order. Why? Because we say so, and we're the good guys."

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2004-12-31 11:47pm

the legacy of the Jedi extends farther back into the mists of time (i've always loved saying "mists of time") than even the Republic.

its possible that their presence as a guarding force is so ingrained into the peoples' minds that there is no codified law on the matter. people in the Republic asked this question would be taken completely off guard.

they obviously aren't paid by the Republic. which makes me wonder: how does a Jedi make his/her livelihood?

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2004-12-31 11:55pm

unbeataBULL wrote: they obviously aren't paid by the Republic. which makes me wonder: how does a Jedi make his/her livelihood?

Paid by the Jedi Council [who are paid the Republic] sounds right, but it's pure speculation on my part.. Each Jedi gets an amount to live on- after all, they don't own propety anyway, so they don't need much.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2004-12-31 11:58pm

unbeataBULL wrote:the legacy of the Jedi extends farther back into the mists of time (i've always loved saying "mists of time") than even the Republic.

its possible that their presence as a guarding force is so ingrained into the peoples' minds that there is no codified law on the matter. people in the Republic asked this question would be taken completely off guard.

they obviously aren't paid by the Republic. which makes me wonder: how does a Jedi make his/her livelihood?

See, that still runs into problems when you consider two things. One is that institutions always attract detractors, and the Jedi would be a prime target. Second, the issue of the Sith Wars comes up. Most people would seriously question an institution that proves incapable enough of internal policing that it ends up creating a galactic war.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2005-01-01 12:33am

unbeataBULL wrote:they obviously aren't paid by the Republic. which makes me wonder: how does a Jedi make his/her livelihood?

Most Jedi have a regular job in addition to being a Jedi, like Vaalin Halcyon, who was a police officer and a jedi.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-01-01 12:36am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Most Jedi have a regular job in addition to being a Jedi, like Vaalin Halcyon, who was a police officer and a jedi.

So far as I know, he was just a Jedi who happened to work with CorSec. Where is it stated that he actually worked directly for them?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-01 12:44am

unbeataBULL wrote:they obviously aren't paid by the Republic. which makes me wonder: how does a Jedi make his/her livelihood?

They're all card sharks.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-01-01 01:59am

The Jedi are granted special powers by the Judicial Department. They can also be granted unique authority at the personal behest of the Supreme Chancellor.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-01-01 02:01am

Petrosjko wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Most Jedi have a regular job in addition to being a Jedi, like Vaalin Halcyon, who was a police officer and a jedi.
So far as I know, he was just a Jedi who happened to work with CorSec. Where is it stated that he actually worked directly for them?

You're right. The Jedi just worked for the Order.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2005-01-01 02:06am

Petrosjko wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Most Jedi have a regular job in addition to being a Jedi, like Vaalin Halcyon, who was a police officer and a jedi.
So far as I know, he was just a Jedi who happened to work with CorSec. Where is it stated that he actually worked directly for them?

I belive it was also said that the Corellian Jedi were somewhat more independent from the main order. They had famalies and generaly were more down to Earth with the people. Much more like Lukes NJO.

Of couse the mainstream order did not like this, but as the alternative was to cut them loose (something that they were hardly going to do) they let them have the latitude.

And as to the Jedi's authority. There is a nice quote from Destinys Way. Where Luke is asked by the NR's new Cheif of State how the Jedi Council used to work....where is it....

He frowned. "Luke can you tell me how the Jedi council was set up in the past? If we know how it used to work, maybe we can make it work again."

"The Jedi Council was a dozen or so respected Masters," Luke said, "who oversaw the other Jedi during their training, and how reported to the Supreme Chancellor. If the Chancellor saw a problem that required Jedi abilities, he would usually inform the Council, who would send Jedi to deal with it. Usually not many, because it was well known that behind the first Jedi were a few thousand more. And I imagine that the information went both ways - that the Jedi themselves would alert the Supreme Chancellor if their own network of contacts pointed to a problem somewhere"

So we can infer that the Jedi were very much under the personal direction of the Supreme Chancellor, not the senate or justice department equivalent. They were almost the private army of the Supreme Chancellor, operating under his executive authority.

It also fits in well with Episode 1. How Valorum was able to send Obi One and Qui Gon to tell the Trade Federation to stop screwing around. And why they were so afraid of these two Jedi, because it was a widely held perception that if you DIDN'T do what they said, thousands more would turn up. And explains that although the Senate didn't vote to get anything DONE, the Jedi were still quite free to stay with the Queen and even engage in combat with the Trade Federation.

It also suggests the Jedi were free to establish their own intelligence networks and so on, independent from the Republics own. Which makes it look even MORE like the SC's private army. Then again, given how slow the OR was to get things happening, he may well have needed them to cut through the senatorial BS.

Luke also sums up the problems with this system rather well.

The old Jedi had personified the rule of order and the will of the state. But they were also secretive and removed from the people and their representatives. Their link to the outside was through Supreme Chancellor, and one a malevolent figure like Palpatine became Chancellor, with his disciple among the Jedi, the Jedi were cut off by the secret enemy, isolated and destroyed.

I do like how Luke remade the Council though, FAR more inclusive and far more of a group of people who work with the system, rather then in a large ivory tower.

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